[rcoreyus]

It may be an attraction to strength. Bad boys / girls have the strength to go against the rules. There are many other people who have strength as well, but it may not be nearly as obvious so they aren't immediately attractive. Sports figures, and famous people are also generally considered attractive - each again has a sort of power.

I wonder, has anyone here had a good long term relationship with a bad boy / girl?

[jen1447]

My BF has.

That's another point about this whole goodness/badness thing tho - bad doesn't have to mean evil and 'bad' types can actually be good people. Likewise good could be really not so great if they basically leach the life out of somebody while obeying laws and paying their taxes and wearing pocket protectors and all that.

[atskitty2]

Not sure I've officially put my 2 cents in on this. I've often said my ideal man is the "bad boy" with the heart of gold. I love a strong, assertive, bold guy who's intelligent, ambitious and has a tough side, but has a big soft spot for me, his family and friends.
I'm pretty strong and I need a strong man to balance me, otherwise I feel dominant and I don't like to be the ONLY one wearing the pants.

I like the bad boy image too. But I've found that a lot of those images aren't necessarily matching their personality. It seems they can be just as wimpy as those iron-creased, pocket-protecting stereotypes...

So, I would never tolerate abuse in any fashion, but a man who can stand up to me, challenge my thoughts and my choices respectfully and is strong enough to expect me to do the same for him...that's sexy.

So I think its confidence and balls and, at a very evolutionary sort of level, the security that implies.

[jen1447]

Good point about security - we don't really need anybody to take care of us in the stereotypical sense anymore, but it's still hot to have a guy on your arm who could beat somebody up for you if the situation called for it. It's sexy to feel safe.

[rcoreyus]

Are you bad, or are you self-reliant and stylish? I think there is a big question of what is meant by "bad". If "bad" is taken to mean "likes hot sex", then sure a lot of people like bad boys / girls. If bad means "lives a criminal lifestyle, and becomes a violent drunk" then that's more of a problem.

My BF has.

That's another point about this whole goodness/badness thing tho - bad doesn't have to mean evil and 'bad' types can actually be good people. Likewise good could be really not so great if they basically leach the life out of somebody while obeying laws and paying their taxes and wearing pocket protectors and all that.

[jen1447]

Are you bad, or are you self-reliant and stylish? I think there is a big question of what is meant by "bad". If "bad" is taken to mean "likes hot sex", then sure a lot of people like bad boys / girls. If bad means "lives a criminal lifestyle, and becomes a violent drunk" then that's more of a problem.

I gave a bad definition above ....sticking with that, altho I suppose it's possible men and women have different opinions on bad. I should ask the BF, but I'm pretty sure he wouldn't exactly call me a "good girl."

[Archer]

I think most of the "nice guys" actually tend to be that way because they think it will get them what they want. By bending over backwards for everyone, by looking everywhere else but themselves for validation, by pleasing every woman and fulfilling her every wish, by following every rule, they feel that they will somehow be rewarded by the universe for all of their selfless actions.

When this doesn't happen, they are anything but nice. How many friend-zoned guys eventually blow up and have huge animosity towards a girl that they felt they could win over if they were always there for her, in any way/shape/form, and they see her date someone else? It's not fair for girls to keep guys on "orbiter" status intentionally, but any grown man should be able to draw boundaries before this happens. Nice guys feel that if they allow themselves to be doormats long enough, there is no logical way in their mind that they won't eventually get what they want from the arrangement as well. In reality though, this almost never happens.

A quote that put me down a dangerous, yet absolutely necessary path in life:

"If you keep following the rules you have always followed, you will forever be stuck in the same place you have always been."

I don't think women want bad-boys per se, they just want guys who are free from the reigns and expectations of society. This means guys who understand that women can sometimes give horrible advice on what they want--follow it, and welcome to the friend zone But the guys who tend to follow their own path usually go through a phase where they are complete *******s; even this, however, is more attractive than a woman-pleasing half-man, lacking any confidence or self-respect.

For me personally, I never enter an interaction with a woman unless I stand to gain as much or more from it as she does. I have every right to please myself, and she has every right to please herself, so let's see if we can walk down that road together.

With any attitude other than that, yes, I would finish last. And it would be a very lonely place

[Trixareforkids]

When I think of bad boys or girls I think of an attractive package with rotten contents and with that in mind I've never been attracted to bad boys. But if it weren't for a bad girl the hubby and I wouldn't be together, I was her roomy and he called for her and when he heard he say "oh just tell him I'm not home" he said "I heard the B...." we both laughed and the two of us started talking and became friends and a few months later a couple.

I have never been able to understand the attraction to my definition of a bad boy or girl. I was painfully shy and had probably a normal amount of insecurities as a young woman, but if you didn't treat me right it was a VERY quick see-ya! Maybe it's a self-worth thing, I have never doubted my own self-worth, so I've never had to look for it outside of myself. The other thing I've never understood is why people get back together after breaking up, if it didn't work before why on earth would you jump back into it? My older daughter did this with her 1st GF, the GF treated her like crap but she kept going back for more, I was so happy as when my daughter FINALLY moved on.

[rcoreyus]

Archer: Some nice guys may just be acting to get what they want, but I think there are also people who really are just nice and they don't always finish last.

I have a friend at work who seems like a nice guy, friendly, unassuming, nothing particular makes him stand out - until you know him better. He's smart. He's quite wealthy (though it hides it well). Turns out that he is an athlete (in an obscure sport) who competes in international level competitions. A few years back he saved his girlfriend's life: They were out kayaking in the ocean and a storm came up that was driving them towards lethal sea-cliffs. She became exhausted and couldn't paddle anymore. He managed to build a tow-rope out of various gear they had, and then paddled both kayaks away from the cliffs to safety (at risk to his own life). He's now married (to someone else, the previous girlfriend eventually broke up with him) and happy. Nice guy - most definitely didn't finish last. (and an object lesson to people to learn more about their quiet, unassuming acquaintances).

I'm also a nice guy, and while I have nowhere near the awesomeness of the person I was describing, I have a good life.

[Archer]

I wouldn't think that your friend is a people-pleaser by any means, or he probably wouldn't be a wealthy world-class athlete. He got placed in a situation where he could save someone's life, and he did; that didn't work out and he ended up with someone else. Irony?

The "nice guy" is different from a genuine man who does good things along the path that he is on. The nice guy is the one who begs to be loved and accepted by doing these things, and goes out of his way in every way possible to do them, to his own detriment; the genuine guy does these because he feels that it is within his own established moral code, rather than society's expectation, to do so. I don't owe anybody anything, any more than the world owes me anything. Everything should be approached from that standpoint, and judged with one's own moral compass. That's why girls love "*******s", because they don't give a **** about anything at all, and it's much more attractive to them than a guy who gives a **** about everything.

Sounds like your friend had enough going for him that he was just a genuine guy. Sounds like a really cool friend to have.