[CHANDLERS WISH]

haha, very funny on that last note, just a quick one, I'm replied my thoughts, but

on my 40th birthday.... My ex-husband bought me, ready?



A MOTOR BIKE HELMET? WT?


True story where is the romance in that for goodness sake?

And, i can relate to the flowers as " expected" as aposed to "wanted to give"

that's all. x

CW

[Livelaughlove]

Would a man find a new sawzall ...romantic?

He11 yes. lmao

My exgirlfriend bought me a Milwaukee 18V lithium-Ion Compact drill for no reason, but me starring at it at store. Man she made my week.

[WildChild]

LLL, Actually I'd love to have one of those drills, but getting it wouldn't be romantic not really - well maybe if it was gift for no reason other than knowing I would like to have one. But over the years I got a chainsaw (he ruined cutting something too large) ladder, table saw, sawzall, a Dremel, a hammer drill, a cheapie screwdriver set to replace a very expensive set he lost most of, and other tools to better enable me to remodel the house he kept in the divorce. None of those were about me, they were things that were needed to maintain the house and property. The message with those was not I love you or care for you - it was get more done faster.
Granted I'm allergic to perfume but I love flowers and all sorts of other things, I didn't get those! But thanks for the heads up on that for guys!

[WildChild]

CW, I'm on a journey now, I also have bounced back over and over but you know the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results! I need different results. My life history cut and dried sounds like a horror story, yet I don't feel that way about it because I kept a positive attitude. I keep getting up and coming back for another try. My first bf set me up to be gang raped, I assumed he was a jerk, I didn't assume that any other male I met would do the same. I have been beaten, stalked, cheated on (my first husband couldn’t keep his pants zipped to save his life - threatened suicide when I offered to get out of his way) it just goes on and on. At what point do you give up? I can't, not yet. I've done a lot of work on myself and am still working, very hard. My counselor has told me he's never seen anyone so calm with so much going on in their life. Getting upset won’t help, staying positive will.

I didn't expect to but I've met a man who lights up my world like no one ever has before. But he has his issues to deal with and history to equal, maybe surpass my own. He is also living and working on himself very consciously and is very self aware. However he carries his history differently, where I've had a lot of negative stuff - it's varied, he's been cheated on over and over. It certainly isn't his sexual ability, he's an amazing, caring lover. But he backs off after a few months in a conditioned expectation of being scr*wed over. I've never purposely hurt anyone and neither has he. We have resorted to being friends while we work on this, this is the only way he can maintain the relationship, he knows himself and knows that otherwise he’ll run. I don't know where it will lead but it hurts to think he has put up a wall to keep from being hurt. Ultimately slowing things down may be for the best as we work on ourselves and build and hopefully deepen our friendship.

I think I'm ready to move forward, I'll never marry again. I stayed in my last marriage long past the time I left emotionally because I couldn’t kick him when he was down, he was sick, dealing with a potentially terminal cancer. Some people grow and become more aware when they look death in the face, he became more self-focused. In the marriage before, my kid’s father informed me that he didn’t love me and never would because it would pull him away from loving G-d. In both I was rejected sexually, that on top of my first marriage with all his infidelity and sexuality is a touchy area for me. I love sex, I don’t have a problem initiating it but a few rejections from a man a truly care for and I cannot escape feeling very hurt and doubtful of myself and yes then I do start to shut down in a protective mechanism. Part of what I’m having trouble with right now is that when we came together it was passionate. Very passionate. I opened up and that's created vulnerability. Now he has backed off. He warned me that he had a self-protective habit of sabotaging relationships, so I was not wholly unprepared for it. At some level I know this can be a good thing for of us, slowing down. We have long talks about what we are working on, what we have each faced, what we are trying to accomplish to conquer our past history.

I want a relationship where I can trust fully and be completely open emotionally and that’s not easy to come by. The older you get the more experiences you’ve had and most people don’t seem to have the awareness or the willingness to do the self discovery and work to overcome the damages they have sustained. I have no choice, if I didn’t I would be too emotionally crippled. I’ve already challenged one of his very deep hurts by trusting him completely. We discussed this at the start, literally the first time we met (we talked then for hours) I told him would trust and until I had reason not to. He has given me no reason not to, quite the opposite. But he has withdrawn emotionally on some levels and physically. He’s done it consciously. I don’t know that I can open my soul while he is backing off. It would leave me vulnerable to a level a pain I don’t know that I could handle.

He has been very honest, he doesn’t want to lose me and I told him that if this is what it takes I would accept it. It is a choice between being friends and his feeling trapped and running. It’s a kind of torture in a way, he arouses me incredibly and being essentially hands off is really difficult. In the past I’ve simply shut down sexually for a while when there is no sex in a relationship. I don’t seem to be able to do that this time. I learned the hard way years ago that you cannot force a relationship sexually, a man may respond but he will resent it. Men complain a great deal about women who shut down but they do it too.

So I’m dealing with several things; the work I have to do on myself, maintaining a relationship with someone I care for deeply but can’t have what I want with right now, and self doubt. I’ve been in too many relationships with emotionally unavailable men. This feels different but I still have a level of doubt in my judgment because I’ve made poor choices so many times. I meet a lot of men but very seldom experience a high level of attraction. I’m very into self exploration and spiritual development, I haven’t met many men who can relate and have made the mistake of closing off that side of myself. I can’t walk away from this man who has dealt with same situation and is working so hard on himself. If it was just about sex I could get that in a heartbeat, it wouldn’t have the same quality as sex with him but would do the job. I want the real deal, the whole thing. I decided that I wasn’t compromising who I am any more, I wasn’t going to remake myself or repress parts of my self for a relationship. This is unfamiliar territory for me, holding back and waiting to see where he takes himself. I know he is suffering. He’s been dumped for this before and I sense a level of fear of loss in him. I'm trying really hard to stay focused on what I need to do for myself and my kids but it's not easy. I've never been in a relationship where I felt so cared about, there wasn't any hearts and flowers but a lot of thoughtfulness.

During this time I'm continuing to work my way through some of the things I need to resolve and romance is one. I've had very little, have pretty much lived on crumbs. Really most of the 'romance' I've had I've provided for myself. I'm trying to understand, what is it that draws this out of people or supresses it.

[CHANDLERS WISH]

CW, I'm on a journey now, I also have bounced back over and over but you know the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results! I need different results.

I think in order to do that we have to change our thought pattern, self-worth, knowledge of and live for today and tomorrow, you are doing that, you are searching your inner-soul.

My life history cut and dried sounds like a horror story, yet I don't feel that way about it because I kept a positive attitude.

Your are a positive person and you know, that regardless of what has happened, you turn those negatives into a learning curb and look for the positive of a better end result.

I do wonder however, how many people still have difficulties with their self-worth after destruction and initially, continue unintentionally "settling" for the wrong partner, for the will and desire of never again, but the self worth is still low.


I keep getting up and coming back for another try.

I don't believe that "anyone" should ever give up on hope.. Hope can turn into reality.

There is no such thing as a perfect partner. Yet, we find an attraction and focus on that attraction, we feel beautiful? loved, yet deep inside, we see things that we 'feel' intuitively may not be good for us, think, think, but we don't think, we go with the attraction, the feeling beautiful and then later, come to realisation that we were right all along...

If only we, male/female really went with the initial "gut" feeling, and not emotions.

My first bf set me up to be gang raped, I assumed he was a jerk, I didn't assume that any other male I met would do the same. I have been beaten, stalked, cheated on (my first husband couldn’t keep his pants zipped to save his life - threatened suicide when I offered to get out of his way) it just goes on and on. At what point do you give up?

Never... You concentrate on yourself and who you are and look at yourself and know who you are, and whilst you will say but i do, i did, (as i will), you know that "gut" feeling you ignored is the reason.


I can't, not yet. I've done a lot of work on myself and am still working, very hard. My counselor has told me he's never seen anyone so calm with so much going on in their life.

I can very much relate to that. Your belief in the world, what it has to offer, in yourself, and in life is bigger than anything that has ever happened to you.

But, there is an element still of "non-belief" of self.


Getting upset won’t help, staying positive will.

Totally, totally agree. So will affirmations that you do, constant reminder of how beautiful you are " inside" , only the best will now be able to "get" you. Pending on your wish.


I didn't expect to but I've met a man who lights up my world like no one ever has before.

Because I would suggest if I may? That you were wanting this, and all the affirmations and positive thinking you have been doing has attracted it, however, you weren't looking, at that time, he entered.


But he has his issues to deal with and history to equal, maybe surpass my own.

A bond of understanding I would say.

He is also living and working on himself very consciously and is very self aware.

A similar mind set.

However he carries his history differently, where I've had a lot of negative stuff - it's varied, he's been cheated on over and over. It certainly isn't his sexual ability, he's an amazing, caring lover. But he backs off after a few months in a conditioned expectation of being scr*wed over. I've never purposely hurt anyone and neither has he. We have resorted to being friends while we work on this, this is the only way he can maintain the relationship, he knows himself and knows that otherwise he’ll run.

Two people both whom have experienced similar hurt and pain, will bond, but fear will separate them unless, they can join at the hip at some point in time when both have seen that they are worth it, and it was not them at all, rather what was attracted, and why, as well as it was not their fault rather the other person did wrong.


I don't know where it will lead but it hurts to think he has put up a wall to keep from being hurt.

You are simply more ready to try again... He is not... But, I know of a lot of people when the trust is built, totally built, the wall slowly comes down bit by bit until there is none.... but only with that person and that equates to ..........time, but also to his ability to allow the wall to slowly fall down.


Ultimately slowing things down may be for the best as we work on ourselves and build and hopefully deepen our friendship.

If that is all it ever is, then trust me it will be one of a lifetime and one that is real and one that when one needs the other they will be there, which is a relationship, but of different sort, but still with love.


I think I'm ready to move forward, I'll never marry again. I stayed in my last marriage long past the time I left emotionally because I couldn’t kick him when he was down, he was sick, dealing with a potentially terminal cancer. Some people grow and become more aware when they look death in the face, he became more self-focused.

Marriage is a piece of paper, in my opinion but long lasting love can not be re-written. I imagine like my ex-husband he became disabled, i hate to say this, but it was in his mind more so, that being that certainly he had injuries, but once "paid out" he no longer has weight, his job is perfect, and he rides his bike through the wind like there is no tomorrow, not possible for 5 disks gone in some one's back... So, i lived 4 years of that, i can do nothing, i hate the world, i am dead inside, i can't be me. You are nothing, your job is pointless, you will never make it? mmm...


In the marriage before, my kid’s father informed me that he didn’t love me and never would because it would pull him away from loving G-d. In both I was rejected sexually, that on top of my first marriage with all his infidelity and sexuality is a touchy area for me.

Oh dear, i hate being this honest... Well, i can't recall how many times i stated " I will not live in a love-less marriage". I was / am extremely sexual, but he was of the opinion all women are .......made life very difficult therefore to be free there, suppressed, way too long.


I love sex, I don’t have a problem initiating it but a few rejections from a man a truly care for and I cannot escape feeling very hurt and doubtful of myself and yes then I do start to shut down in a protective mechanism. Part of what I’m having trouble with right now is that when we came together it was passionate. Very passionate. I opened up and that's created vulnerability. Now he has backed off. He warned me that he had a self-protective habit of sabotaging relationships, so I was not wholly unprepared for it. At some level I know this can be a good thing for of us, slowing down. We have long talks about what we are working on, what we have each faced, what we are trying to accomplish to conquer our past history.


I would hassed at a guess, that your opening of sexuality which you need to do, you must do, you are your self, and never be anything else, made him scared, a taste of true intimacy that may leave him...

I refuse not to be me now... It's not worth it.


I want a relationship where I can trust fully and be completely open emotionally and that’s not easy to come by. The older you get the more experiences you’ve had and most people don’t seem to have the awareness or the willingness to do the self discovery and work to overcome the damages they have sustained. I have no choice, if I didn’t I would be too emotionally crippled. I’ve already challenged one of his very deep hurts by trusting him completely. We discussed this at the start, literally the first time we met (we talked then for hours) I told him would trust and until I had reason not to. He has given me no reason not to, quite the opposite. But he has withdrawn emotionally on some levels and physically. He’s done it consciously. I don’t know that I can open my soul while he is backing off. It would leave me vulnerable to a level a pain I don’t know that I could handle.


You more than likely are all that he has dreamed of, someone to communicate with, someone who understands, someone who loves, someone who loves his body and all of his being, sexually, and that would be hard for him, does that exist? Will, she get bored and move on? I can't give...


He has been very honest, he doesn’t want to lose me and I told him that if this is what it takes I would accept it. It is a choice between being friends and his feeling trapped and running. It’s a kind of torture in a way, he arouses me incredibly and being essentially hands off is really difficult. In the past I’ve simply shut down sexually for a while when there is no sex in a relationship. I don’t seem to be able to do that this time.

I am going to be blunt... You are trapped, and you found someone that you know will not cheat on you, you know he will not hurt you, he will not hit you, he is therefore, what you have been looking for. But, you also suffered immensely you were never able to be free, able to give your soul, heart, body and mind... You can't give him an ultimatum but you can't hang on for months on end either, you need to see, that if you have found this, then you are on the right path yourself of discovering yourself and knowing you can find what you are after this time, you can not make the same mistake, where this time, living with love, but never being loved, made love to for months on end.

You may have to consider somewhere along the line, to leave it as friends and keep your heart and mind open for other possibilities and he also needs to know that you will not sit back and wait forever, you can not.


I learned the hard way years ago that you cannot force a relationship sexually, a man may respond but he will resent it. Men complain a great deal about women who shut down but they do it too.


Certainly, but the desire and lust has to be there.. Baggage is baggage, if they can not work through it man/ or woman, at all, then it will fail.. My ex's first wife left him after 18 months for another man, my ex was a virgin when he met her. He could never ever, get over that, all woman are..........


So I’m dealing with several things; the work I have to do on myself, maintaining a relationship with someone I care for deeply but can’t have what I want with right now, and self doubt.

Self doubt is what i said earlier on, the first thing i picked up the reason why most of us "settle" instead of being totally happy...

I’ve been in too many relationships with emotionally unavailable men. This feels different but I still have a level of doubt in my judgment because I’ve made poor choices so many times.

Again, i will say that you saw the signs, but ignored them, because of the good sides, you chose, we choose, to only see good.

I meet a lot of men but very seldom experience a high level of attraction.

Understand that too... But, as humans we still go for the attraction of the physical, or the sexual, rarely getting to know the person long enough to find those things after .. we by pass the "good" ones, as a result.



I’m very into self exploration and spiritual development, I haven’t met many men who can relate and have made the mistake of closing off that side of myself.

If you found a man with this sort of spirit, he would likely be not your type, you are, so you need something "strong" in character and mind, we don't have to find the exact, sometimes it's the exact opposite, providing they understand whom we are.


I can’t walk away from this man who has dealt with same situation and is working so hard on himself.

You don't have to but you do have to see, that it may be exactly that, "the same situation" and so you will be very close friends whilst someone else who is solid, grounded is there.


If it was just about sex I could get that in a heartbeat, it wouldn’t have the same quality as sex with him but would do the job.

We all could.. quality is because you have feelings, and it is shared, sleeping with someone for the sake of it, tends to be as we get older, not worth it... We seek emotional, intimacy as well as sex.

I want the real deal, the whole thing. I decided that I wasn’t compromising who I am any more, I wasn’t going to remake myself or repress parts of my self for a relationship.

Then don't compromise in a hope... See everything as it is... Spend quality time seeing but remember, "you can't change someone" they have to be able to change.

You don't want a loveless relationship either that ends up as a friendship and meanwhile another year has passed.


This is unfamiliar territory for me, holding back and waiting to see where he takes himself.

It's okay everyone deserves the time to "see".


I know he is suffering. He’s been dumped for this before and I sense a level of fear of loss in him.

And so you have emotions tied in, like men do over a woman who has been raped, beaten, cheated on they want to protect her, like a father, she wants to protect him like a mother, a deep love but of what kind? Can you change him? No, he must do it for himself, see where it goes but remember those words.


I'm trying really hard to stay focused on what I need to do for myself and my kids but it's not easy. I've never been in a relationship where I felt so cared about, there wasn't any hearts and flowers but a lot of thoughtfulness.


Friendships can give the same. And, remember all that you have been through finally someone showing you what you deserve why? Because you are taking yourself through this process of knowing you deserve it and attracting those like minded people in your life.

During this time I'm continuing to work my way through some of the things I need to resolve and romance is one. I've had very little, have pretty much lived on crumbs.

And so, see this as something you "need" at the moment in time, if it is meant to be it will if not, it is something very much you need.

I am a believer that we meet people in life for a reason, what that reason is we work out in the end.


Really most of the 'romance' I've had I've provided for myself. I'm trying to understand, what is it that draws this out of people or supresses it.

I think "total trust" brings it out.. You know you can because it's appreciated, and "lack of trust" suppresses it.

I have read so many posts that you have written and you write, and write and help and you are very strong, you know what's going on in life and you have a lot to offer.

Have a bit of a read above, the strange thing is, we can see things and know for other's but not ourselves, is it because we don't want to see? Because, we need? If it is fulfilling a long time passion but is not 100% right, see if it goes that way or else, feel blessed that you've opened the door for it all to start happening.

CW

[WildChild]

I think "total trust" brings it out.. You know you can because it's appreciated, and "lack of trust" suppresses it.

I have read so many posts that you have written and you write, and write and help and you are very strong, you know what's going on in life and you have a lot to offer.

Have a bit of a read above, the strange thing is, we can see things and know for other's but not ourselves, is it because we don't want to see? Because, we need? If it is fulfilling a long time passion but is not 100% right, see if it goes that way or else, feel blessed that you've opened the door for it all to start happening.

CW

I think those of us who have grown up with abuse, being constantly let know we were inadequate and deserved not direction but to have unreasoning rage directed at us, which as children we had no defense against, have more trouble identifying what we need. Our basic instincts for self preservation have been altered and warped. It takes a good deal of self awareness and self monitoring to overcome. Trust can be challenging and dangerous.

In my present situation I have so many big life changes to deal with; single parenting again, a custody battle for two nearly grown kids, a divorce from a someone who is self absorbed and now hates me (we don't have kids together so he should back off at some point ), very tight finances (courts are expensive and I don't have much income to start with), this is all on top of years of dealing with a cyclicly unemployed spouse with severe health issues, who gave me no consideration. I know I have quite enough with all this but these are all temporary issues, they are side tracks from where I want to go and what I want to be. While dealing with all this I'm trying to keep a line of focus on self development, on where I'm going. All the court stuff and investigators focus on the past, so it creates a dicotamy between what I need and what they want. It's like cleaning out the closet with a policeman standing by demanding you keep all this junk.

Part of what this romance thread brings out is giving and receiving. I attended a seminar a few years ago that did a lot of work on this. We get programmed hearing that it's better to give than receive. The truth it's best to give And receive. When we refuse to receive we deny someone else the ability to give. Giving stuff is the easiest, giving ourselves is harder but more real and more needed. If everyone gives all the time, who receives - the narcissists? To be healthy we have to learn to do both graciously. Then for me the question becomes one of attitude again. Giving out of obligation, plugging into a formula, if I do this they'll respond that way.... Guess this moves back to what LLL brought up, not being something expected, that it depends on the person, it requires thought and consideration.

[WildChild]

CW
I am going to be blunt... You are trapped, and you found someone that you know will not cheat on you, you know he will not hurt you, he will not hit you, he is therefore, what you have been looking for. But, you also suffered immensely you were never able to be free, able to give your soul, heart, body and mind... You can't give him an ultimatum but you can't hang on for months on end either, you need to see, that if you have found this, then you are on the right path yourself of discovering yourself and knowing you can find what you are after this time, you can not make the same mistake, where this time, living with love, but never being loved, made love to for months on end.

You may have to consider somewhere along the line, to leave it as friends and keep your heart and mind open for other possibilities and he also needs to know that you will not sit back and wait forever, you can not.

You've hit the nail on the head here and this truth hurts. In the past I've probably moved into relationships too quickly. Most people do. For me there has never been a slow discovery of attraction, it's there or it isn't. There is no realizing that someone I've known for years could be a lover. Doesn't happen, I've read stuff about how men are first visually attracted and then develop deeper feelings, while women need time to discover how they feel and then develop attraction. That may be true in terms of determing if I want a long term relationship but if the sexual attraction isn't there from the beginning, it never develops later. On the other side, if the attraction is there and is damaged and misused, it goes away and doesn't come back. I don't know if other women are this way or not, I suspect many are not just based on all the advise columns and books I've read. I'll give a lot of chances but when I say it's done, the game is over, they fell off the cliff, gone forever. This man is the same way, when it's over it's forever.

I've asked him about his boundries and haven't gotten a clear answer, a lot of discussion though. I'm torn, I think he's worth waiting for but have no way of knowing if the wait will be worth it. I could stand back, be a friend and find myself being nothing but. I've had male freinds before, but not when there has been a intense sexual componate first. Guess I think of freinds who've had sex as a more casual thing, this was intense and amazing, there was nothing casual in it for me. I can't turn it on and off that easily. As long as I want him, there won't be any interest in anyone else. You are right I am trapped right now. He is unable to admit love as anything but a freind. It's not that he can't love, he holds a strong belief that it causes trouble.

I've lived with, "never being loved, made love to for months on end." I've had years of it. Here's part of the quandry, I stayed with some real losers, emotional abusers, dealing with that, far longer than I should have. Can I do less for a good man, who is fighting his own battles? Where do I draw the lines on this? In truth I have a great deal to work on myself, it could easily occupy me for a long time, but may be mostly mental masterbation - you know, it fills an immediate need but doesn't really satisfy? At this point the bulk of what I feel a need to work on has to do with getting out of my box within a relationship. That can't happen alone or with just anyone. That's part of the reason I've been contemplating the whole romance thing, it's a componet that has been missing. I can always show caring and compassion but my vision of romance involves an intensity of emotional exchange.

[Joy]

Wild Child,

You get all the gold stars in my book You have gone deep within yourself and looked at all the dark lil corners and you have come out much stronger and whole. You are at a level where there is no material gift that can be given that would even match what is inside of you.

That has been the problematic cycle all along.... you have never matched up with same level of love you offer. You have and would give all of yourself but you never expect or demand anything in return. This then throws you out of balance because you do not receive the renewal of spirit you are really seeking.

You are already aware that this cycle started in your childhood from verbal and non verbal cues given by adults during childhood. From what you write and express you have already healed and moved past that.

WC you have absorbed alot of pain and abuse in your life but your heart holds much joy and love. You may not have the financial security you had hoped for but you are richer in so many other ways many souless people would trade you in a minute. You loved deeply and feel emotions to the core. That path is full of heartache but like you said you always bounce back and are not held down for long. You have a gift of endurance and great spirit that no matter what you will prevail. So many people don't even have the courage you do to look inside.

Your character speaks volums in the fact you have received gifts with such tact and grace even when the giver didn't have their heart in the right place. Some men/women give a gift with one hand and in the next instance take it away with the other. They don't see their love multiplying when they give it away freely. You are a true healer wild child.

[WildChild]

Thanks Joy, you and CW have been a real help. This is driving me nuts in a way. Coming out of a relationship with no sex and no affection for several years, connecting with this wonderful man, having amazing sex and then having him withdraw has been really hard. I know this isn't really about me, it's about him. He was badly burned about a year ago and hasn't fully come to terms about it. I don't make a habit of falling 'in love', and while I'm ridiculously horny and think about sex a lot, I'm really not attracted to many men, very few in fact. So this man is an exception.

He is very self aware, but has some bad self talk (like, " I sabotage relationships") guess we all have some. He's being very male and is withdrawing into the cave to deal with it. He's said things and I can feel a strong fear in him. He doesn't want to get hurt again, knows his past relationship patterns, is working on change. He's spoken of getting older, having different needs, what he's done in the past won't work in the future. He's said pretty strongly that he doesn't want to lose my freindship. But he's got an old flight pattern kicking in. He's vulnerable, maybe as much or more than he has been in many years.

I have a balancing act to do. One way or the other we will be freinds, we're too connected not to. One day it may grow into something more again but he has to get through this. I can't turn it on and off and the thought of sex with anyone else doesn't appeal, so I'm on the shelf for a while. CW's right, it can't be indefinite but I have to allow time to see where it goes. In the meantime I have a courtcase to get through and a business I'm looking into - anything to avoid the 9 to 5 grind. The other side is to maintain the relationship and keep it growing with us. I want to be there for our long heart to hearts but also to have fun together. I suppose it is possible to have fun without having sex? Doesn't sound likely but there must be a way. We both love going window shopping for tools. The biggest challenge will be wanting to touch, keeping his bounderies.

I'm going to try something different. Just keeping it as fun as possible. Let everyone else be the source of problems. I have to get over this business of crying first though. Haven't done much of that in recent years. I'm not a big crier usually so this is pretty strange. Maybe I can blend in some non sexual "romance". It may be a long tough horny winter. But I can't think of anything better to do with the situation.

[WildChild]

How do you have non sexual romance? Any ideas?