[eccles2]

This is my first post in any Forum and it feels weird being a Male & using this site, but I really am desperate for advice concerning my beautiful wife and who better to get it from than other Women.
I have been with my lady (I will call her CK) since 1998. We married 3 years ago. Together we have produced 2 beautiful little boys (9 & 2 yo) and have faced some HUGE battles in our time together.
When we first met I had been divorced from my first wife for 7 years, but my ex was still trying to stop me from seeing my 2 sons from that marriage. The reasons were ridiculous including the fact that I would cook them a Roast lunch when I had access visits on weekends and visit my relatives with them. Unfortunately she somehow managed to stop me from seeing them for nearly 8 years. They were 12 & 8 when I last had access. This caused me to become very depressed. Luckily CK was with me & was an incredible support to me during that very sad time.
CK comes from a broken family. I met her when she was living with her Father, who is a lovely Man. She adores him & I get on fantastic with him and his Mother. CK’s Mother has been married 3 times and is in the middle of a 5 year affair with another Man while still married to her third husband. She does not like me because (a) I am not rich, (b) because I am not European and (c) because there is an age difference of 16 years between myself & CK. She has actually stated these reasons to CK and myself!
When CK became pregnant at the end of 1998 I received abusive & threatening phone calls from her Mother, step-brother and sister. Her Father was rapt that we were having a baby and offered his full support to us, as did the other members of his family.
Myself & CK have, since that time, had many positive moments, but many more terrible moments, including uprooting our own life in NSW to help my Sister in her business in Bendigo (Victoria), but being forced out onto the streets to live in our car when I complained about her Husband swearing at CK (He is the sort of person who also calls my Sister a “fat-arsed sl**!”).
After losing thousands of dollars moving states to help my Sister we had no money to find a place to rent and so CK, myself and our toddler son were forced to live in our car for about a month. We then slowly graduated to a tent, caravan then Government Housing in South Australia. While in SA, my wife had a miscarriage & our second Son was born in the front seat of our car in transit to the hospital. The Ambulance did not ever arrive. I seeked treatment for depression whilst in SA but was told that there was nothing wrong with me even though I had spoken & thought of suicide many times.
I was also ripped-off by 4 employers in SA.
We now live in Victoria (where myself & our 9 yo son were born) in private rental. I now am building a business & have part-time work.
Around March of last year (2008), my wife was diagnosed with Arthritis of the pelvic bone & hips, and it was also discovered that she had a lower back injury of some type. This ended our sex life, as CK is unable to spread her legs. The doctor who she was seeing placed her on anti-depressants and some painkiller patches, then kept increasing the dosages of the patches to maximum. We have since found out that the patches are actually a narcotic & that the doctor was facing court for fraud while he was treating her. He was found guilty & fined over $60,000.
After many arguments I finally convinced CK to find another doctor, The new doctor is now doing some positive things (pain management referalls, weaning her off the narcotic patches, x-rays, etc)
Last November she told me that she wanted to move back to SA where her Mother, sister & step-brother live because she had no family in Victoria. Mind you, none of those family members mentioned had contacted CK more than 4 times in the 10 years that we had been together. Her father works in Kalgoorlie, WA.
I did not want to leave Victoria, but she stated that she did not want me to go, as she ‘was changing’ and did not know whether she loved me as much. She has not come out with any valid reasons. This brought back my depressed feelings again, as there were no signs that she was unhappy with me until then. I have seen a doctor since and he is now treating me for depression.
I cannot understand why she wants take our two sons and move interstate to be with family who have ignored her since before she met me. Her Nan believes that it would be a very silly move, and her Father is astounded. Both are very supportive to me as they know how much I love CK and our sons. I have told her that I will not give permission to her to move our boys interstate, but she now believes that I am being cruel because of that. I just want to save our marriage, be with my beautiful family & be there to support my Lady who I am so much in love with. She is on a disability pension & I am her carer.
The lack of sex has not been as big of a hurdle to me as she believes it is. My love for her is far more important than sex. There are no alcohol, violence or drug issues in our family, and never have been.
CK has no interest in recieving counselling & believes that the marriage cannot survive. I believe it can if we BOTH work at it.
Please Ladies, I am desperate for some advice as I am totally confused, surprised, angry, sad and every other negative emotion that you could think of regarding this.
(Sorry this question is so long)

[CHANDLERS WISH]

Welcome to the Forum, firstly you may note your not the only male, and you may note that I am from South Australia.

I imagine at the beginning her family were a tad worried due to age more than anything else and not enough security, worried for their daughter.

Although her Mother having an affair for 5 years and married 3 times well....... she seems to live her own life of importance.

It seems that over the past 3 years at least, you guys have had the roughest time and sometimes love can't hold it all together. Sometimes it can wear a person down so much that living with her Mother, on a pension, being by herself, can seem to CK the better option.

You say your starting a business, working part time, renting, a carer that's a lot for you to take on as well is it not?

I can't imagine just how much stress is going on in that family, living in different states, birth in a car, living in a car, diagnosed with Arthritis, treated with narcotics, now being weened off those.... That's a lot she has been involved in and you.

You seem to hold onto Love, as I said as a "woman" she maybe has had enough and can't cope anymore.

I think that she maybe more so looking for stability, safety....and has lost her belief in what you two "could" be.

It's evident that you love her. But, let's look at this.

Can you get a full time Job in SA, can you therefore rent a place together here, she can then see her family and be with you in a bit more of a stable environment.

Not having sex, does play a bit part and it is still achieveable with what you have described, it's more I think of the drugs etc she was put on, there are many ways to help Arthritis and back injuries can be strengthened.

I think she is at her lowest and if you "as you always have" show support but also a bit more stability, I know starting a business is awesome, I have one, but it's time consuming, eats up money, eats up affection, eats up everything when you are starting and no income....

Have a think if you could mix what you are doing, work full time in SA, let her see that she can have a bit of a comfort zone, family as well as not skrimp and scrape ...

You don't mention your family? Or if you did I missed that, it was a long read..

Understand I guess that women when they break, they break. Guys are stronger, she has dealt with a lot and been there all the way through, she is ill, she has kids, and is struggling with life full stop.

What are you qualified to do? What suburb does her family live in, in SA?

Maybe as I am an Aussie i can help find solutions.

CW

[smajerovicz]

Just my point of view !

I am not a professional and can only give you my point of view and maybe that will help...

Before I say anything else I just want to say WOW !!! you guys have gone through a lot ! and well you are now finally seeing the light at the end of the tunnel...well somehow.

I have to tell you that for a woman it is very hard when her man is dealing with depression. We are usually needy and want to be taken care of (except the feminist of course) but in reality every woman out there wants to feel protected and taken care of by her husband. When a man is going through depression it does not have the strenght to be "the man of the house" so, somehow we feel that it is now our place to take, and we start taking in a lot because we are not getting full support from the spouse. CK was probably going through a lot of different emotions when you guys left everything to go help your sister, and of course she wanted to be supportive an go with you, but changes like that specially the way things turned for you guys, affect women terribly...I can not even imagine how scared she must of felt living in a car with no security what so ever and with a baby WOW !!! she must be a tough lady ! I don't think I could of dealt with something like that !!!
So now that the situation is somehow more stable, she feels that is safe to leave. Before she probably thought about it but did not mentioned it to you because you were in a very fragile state, but now, she feels that you can take it, so she is taking her chances.
I know this hurts, but a woman needs stability specially when she comes from a broken home...maybe she does not think that you can provide that for her and the kids.
My advise is to talk to her, and more important to listen to her, sometimes you don't even know the real reasons...she might be affraid to tell you exactly what she is feeling.
Get her out of the house to a place were you can sit and talk without distractions and tell her how you feel. Tell her that sex is not that important to you right now, that being with her is more important to you. she might be thinking of you in that respect and based on that making all this decisions.
One more thing, pray about it, with God everything is possible and it looks like he is looking out for you because you guys have come this far together.
I hope this helps ! Good luck to you !
PS: Remember love is not everything in a relationship...it is a main ingredient, but it is not all you need to suceed in a marriage.

[eccles2]

I certainly will not be going to SA, as she has stated that she does not want me to go because her family (her Mothers side only) do not like me. I have found out that when my 9 yo was recently on a short holiday over there, CK's sister was letting him play with not only a real bow & arrow, but also a samurai sword. CK does not seem to care about this. I do. Maybe I am just better of letting her go. Maybe even telling her to go. But I will not be giving permission for the children to go. Her sister drinks fairly heavily & smokes dope. She has also been known to sniff powders.
I really do not think that there are any good influences within that side of the family at all.
Maybe if she is on her own over there with her physical problems & no support she will realise what she has given up. Even her Mothers parents believe that she will get no support there, or if she does it will die out after a couple of months. She does not have a licence, and has refused to get one.
As I have said, all work that I got previously in SA was a failure due to the employers ripping me off.
Oh well, another divorce is on the way it looks like & 2 more innocent kids affected.

[WildChild]

I'm going to speak bluntly. I recently came out of an 8 yr situation of repeated hardship and difficulty but in all honesty a fair part of it was the result of poor choices and my failure to stand up to my husband and insist that we make some rational changes. Even if she won't go into couseling, you should go. Even if it doesn't save your marriage, you may learn some skills which could help, they may help you learn to help your children deal with the situation better and it may help you deal with your depression.

There are some things here that give me pause. You have expressed no responsibilty for what led up to each of these situations. They didn't occur in a vacuum, You or the two of you made choices and decisions. Why would you bankrupt yourselves to help your sister? Why were you living with her and her husband? If you spent thousands of dollars to help them why did simple remonstrating cause you to end up on the street?

Why did you allow 4 different employers to 'rip you off'? Did you seek legal recourse?

Why would being unable to spread her legs end your sex life? I can think of several ways to have sex with legs tightly together. This would seem to be more about willingness and desire. Are you taking legal action regarding the doctor who mistreated her? Some drugs can produce personality changes and decrease or destroy sex drive.

You are saying there were no signs she was unhappy previously but you certainly haven't recounted anything but difficulty, misery and hardship. Saying she can't give "valid" reasons for her feelings is a way of discounting her emotions. What you think is valid and what she feels may not agree but that doesn't change what she feels.

Is being unable to have access to your children from your previous marriage the result of a court decision? Nothing less would keep most parents out of touch. Courts don't generally make such orders just on a whim or someone's say so. What happened?

It is possible that as your wife gets off these drugs and gets better medical care, she may start to feel differently. But my guess is she will need to see some real indications that she and her children will not be put through this kind of trauma again.

[eccles2]

Thanks for your feedback 'Wildchild'.
I am already seeking counselling. This has been organised through my Doctor (the same one that is treating CK). She does not want any & refuses to co-operate, even though her doctor, Father & Grandmother belive that she should.
I have also been prescribed with anti-depressants by the same doctor.
I have also completed a parenting course, something that CK refuses to do as she feels that to do so would be an insult to her ability to rear the children.

The decision to help my Sister was a joint choice & we were both involved. That situation is now in the hands of the Courts, with a resolution exoected early March. We were not living with my sister & husband. We were living in on site of the business in a 3 bedroom house. We did not go bankrupt. That was not even mentioned anywhere in my post. My sister has also (it turns out) been ripping-off many of her staff (underpayment, no super, no holidays, etc). As I stated, they are facing the courts now.
The employers who ripped me off in Adelaide are all out of business now, except one. Legal advice that I recieved stated that I was not employed long enough to take action through the courts.
I agree that there are many, many ways to have a satisfying sex life without spreading legs. However CK wants nothing to do with them. I have done much research on the internet regarding this, spoken to Arthritis Australia & our doctor. CK believes that she is not confident enough & states that she has 'flicked off the switch'. What do I do? If I were to force her, it would be classified as rape as all sexual activity must be with consent.
She does not even show affection anymore...hugs, kisses, holding hands are all gone now.
I have spoken to the Medical Board regarding the treatment that she recieved from the original doctor & have recieved the relevant paperwork to begin an enquiry.
I agree that the drugs are more than likely doing most of the damage, as does her father & Grandmother.

In regards to giving valid reasons, I have tried on numerous occasions to discuss things with her, but she always answers with 'Well, you get that' or 'I dont know'.
There was obviously unhappiness with our situation. We were both unhappy with our situation. But there is a difference between being unhappy with a situation in life & ones relationship together. She had previously stated that the relationship was the only thing that she was happy with. She had not only stated that to me, but also to her father, grandparents & friends.
I have only noticed these changes since she was placed onto the narcotics.

Yes, the decision was based on a Court decision. The boys also stated that they did not want to see me. A decision that was based upon lies. I was accused of molesting the boys. These accusations did not even make it past the initial interview as they were total lies. My ex was also sending back every Birthday & Christmas card & present that I was sending to them. This was in complete disregard to the court orders that were issued. I have since been in contact with the boys. It turns out that my ex had told the boys that I had abandoned them & was not sending any cards or presents. I had actually kept ALL cards & presents that were returned to me. As they were all sent 'Registered mail' I was also holding onto the Australia Post notifications bearing her signature. The boys now no longer speak to their Mother as they have seen for themselves the lies that she was feeding them. There were numerous other smaller issues, but they all amounted to the same thing...that the Mother was feeding them lies, and fortunately I had held onto every bit of paperwork and evidence that proved to the boys that she was full of ****. And trust me, I was amazed at what orders the Courts would give based on so little evidence.
Thank goodness there have been some changes to the system since that time.
The last year has seen more positives in our life than negatives. This problem is the only negative.
We are settled in our rented house. Our son is succeding at school. My business is finally making some income. I am actually working at an old & trusted employer of mine part-time. They are an employer that I was with for over 10 years and was forced to leave because of ramifications of a car accident before I met CK. The court action against my sister & her husbband should be finished within a couple of months. There are obviously many other smaller positives that have been happening in our life, but as I said, this is the major negative. And it is a huge negative.
I also agree that the drugs are stuffing her up. So does her father & Grandparents. And the doctor. But she does not think so.

I realize that most women (possibly even on this forum) will always refuse to believe that the husband is not at fault, and I cannot change that attitude.
But believe me, I value my wife & family and love them as deeply as anyone could. I have also started going to a local church. My wife refuses to go with me. Even though I am not a religious person, I am not an athiest. It may at least help me with how I am feeling about things.

'WildChild' I do the housework in our house...the dishes, the washing, the vacuming, some cooking and all general tidying-up. I change nappies, I feed the children breakfast & get them ready for school. I do this because she needs the help & she gets to sleep in till between 10 & 11 am each day.
But, 'WildChild', your statement that "...real indications that she and her children will not be put through this kind of trauma again" is insulting to me. The children are OUR children, not just hers. I love & care for them just as much as she does. And unfortunately it is attitudes like your statement that that cause more harm to our society than good.

[WildChild]

I did not mean to insult you with the statement "her and her children" but to put it in what may ber perspective. Thank you for filling in the blanks, your story is more coherant now.

It does sound like you are doing all you can and that the drugs may be a big part of the problem. Does the doctor think she is likely to experience a change as she is weaned off of them? Does the doctor have any influence with her?

[eccles2]

I do know that the doctor believes that she, also, is suffering from depression. He has not stated to me that she may change as she is weaned of them, but he has stated to my wife that they are not the solution & that is why he is taking the action that he is taking. He is also going to be looking at some counselling for her. I admit that I am suffering from depression, while she does not admit that she is suffering also. Unfortunately she is only able to visit this doctor during evening hours so I am unable to attend every session that she has with him due to other circumstances including the children, work, etc. She does rely on me to transport her to her appointments however.
I am hoping that the doctor does have some influence, but as you may understand, after the experiences that she has had with the other doctor, the trust factor will take some time to build. He is older, has children, has a younger wife & is in his second marriage also. I therefore find him easy to relate to.
I believe that he is heading in the right direction, and to be quite honest, would be dissapointed if she had to change doctors because of her idea of moving to SA. X-Rays, pain management referalls and the support that she will recieve from the local Arthritis support group, I believe, will make a difference as long as she is prepared to give it time. It wont be fixed overnight. But I also believe that although love is not everything, it is of huge importance especially when there are physical problems that are being treated.
The only people who have shown that they care for her in my time as her partner have been her Father, Grandmother & myself. Her Father & Grandmother are the only family who call her on a semi-regular basis. They live in Kalgoorlie (WA) and Adelaide (SA), and they belive that she would be making a huge mistake by going ahead with what she wants to do.
Her Sister does not call, even though she has a mobile phone. It is always CK who contacts her. Her Step-Brother has never called to speak to her since we met 10 years ago. Her Mother never calls or sends emails unless CK calls her. Their reasons are as follows; Sister (No time), Mother (No time, but certainly time for affairs!) and Step-Brother (No way to contact, even though he visits the Mother & Sister regularly and they have always had contact details!).
And yet these are the people that CK believes will be there for her, and will find the time to care for her. I believe that although this may be so initially, it will not be the case after a couple of months and she will find herself worse off than if she stays with me in Victoria. She believes that our boys need to spend time with those family members and I have offered to drive over to SA every school holidays so they may have time with them. But the Sister visits Queensland often and never calls in on her way from SA. Her Mother visits her parents in Melbourne every couple of months, but never drops in to visit (and she always drives through our city to go to Melbourne). I do not know her Step-Brothers movements as he never is in contact.

By the way, I also have some family in Melbourne, and they have visited us more than her family. She seems to forget about them to worry about those who do not show that they care for any of us!

[CHANDLERS WISH]

Sorry Adelaide left a bad taste in your mouth, there certainly are a lot of small businesses just like in any state, that are "in it for themselves"...

Everyone really seems to be on your side, verbally stating so to you, I am wondering if she wished that she could be closer to her family and now that she is sick, and possibly addicted to that drug that she is clouded and trying to be part of her family instead...

There must be positives about the pair of you over the past say 12 months that you both have laughed at...

She surely must realise her son excelling is good and uprooting a child is not always a good think.

What is her "reasons" to you as to why she wants to come back here, to Adelaide? She can't make a statement without a logical reason.

That is probably the hardest thing for you but also for us to draw a conclusion from nothing really other than what other people think and how you feel.

Has she simply closed conversation refusing to even say why?

CW

[eccles2]

Yes, Adelaide certainly did leave a bad taste in my mouth. The locals seem to have an inbred hatred of anything Victorian. I really only met about 6 people that I liked...and I discovered later that only three of them were actually born there! CK also has stated many times in the past that she hates Adelaide as well. When I met her she had left Adelaide to live with her father (He was living in Melbourne at the time).
I cetainly believe that the painkillers that she is on are playing with her mind. She is the only one who doesnt.
I guess I believe that Family are those who actually show that they care for you, and most of her family have not shown that. And it is not just because of me. CK left home and lived on the streets because of her Mother and her seemingly endless supply of husbands.
There have been many, many laughs between us not only over the past year, but all through our relationship. That is one of the reasons why I find her thinking & plans to be so much out of character. We have managed to get through all of the negatives in our life, but this one is the only one that is putting REAL pressure on our relationship.
To be quite honest, I do not know what she realises now, or how she is thinking.
Her reasons for wanting to move to Adelaide, as I stated in my previous post, would make more sense if her family over there had shown that they care for her and had made some attempt to be in contact with her. Even when we were living in our car, we still both had a mobile phone & her 'family' had our numbers.

I believe that she has closed up because she is confused, and refuses to see that moving to Adelaide would be a stupid move.

I need to go to Melbourne this week for 8 days solid work at the Australian Open. I was going to travel back each day to be with her and the boys, but I am thinking that it would be better to just stay in Melbourne & see how she copes on her own. I dont want to, but maybe it would be better. That is why I stated in an earlier posting that I should maybe just let her go to Adelaide. Her support over there from family will cease after a short time & she will not have the company of our sons, as I will refuse to let her take them to SA to live.
Unfortunately, I believe that this will make her even more depressed, possibly suicidal. I do not want that at all because I am still so much in love with her, but I am confused as well.
This is a VERY difficult time. For her, me and the boys. That is why I am seeking advice.