[CHANDLERS WISH]

CW, if u dont mind me asking: what would u consider "warning signs" in a relationship? With mine, I dont know whether to consider them warning signs or just an "okay, I can understand why this is happening, certain circumstances wont allow for this or that" type of feeling. In the very begining of my relationship, I knew I was in love with him, but I had some questions in the back of my mind that I thought would all work themselves out down the line. Now almost 5 years later, I find myself asking many of those same questions.

Not at all ask anything you want

For me?

1. A 43 year old, listening to "Ava Maria" the old version.. Turned out he was 52.. "warning".

2. A person talking about their past, on-going - "baggage" "warning.

3. Holding their money and not wanting to contribute very much " you'll pay for everything "warning".

4. Discussions about sensuality/ sexuality - "they claim to have alot of knowledge but when you start, they have no idea and then trash every woman, they see, including magazines calling them names", "never going to be able to let myself go as I want to ", "warning" hates women to a degree.

5. "I wouldn't let anyone take my kids anywhere only myself or my Mother", "warning" your never going to be able to bond, it won't be allowed and your Mummy's boy...

That's just a few I can think off. Why don't you state what you saw?

I think our intuition is perfect only we "hear it" but don't want to listen and consequently, we end up in a relationship that fails and possibly a few years of our life gone...

I've learn't that to me that's called "settling" so I strongly now listen to my intuition...

CW

[nubianqueen]

...

That's just a few I can think off. Why don't you state what you saw?
.

1) I personally dont like negativity around me, I tend to stay away from folks who are always negative. Lately I have noticed that a lot of the time, he will have something negative to say. When I try to say something positive about a situation (b/c that's just how i am), half of the time he would have something negative to counteract what I just said.

2) Yes I understand that he may be in a less than desirable position right now, job and all, but I was always taught to make the best out of any situation that ur in. Again, he will complain about it, but I feel that no changes are being made to try and fix the situation, therefore it's a viscious cycle of complaining and negativity.

Cant help but wonder, is this going to be a constant thing? What kind of example would he (and his family b/c a lot of them are the same way, if not worse) be for my children one day if that's how he reasons???

3) he says he wants to go back to school and be able to do different things, but (maybe Im being selfish here) no steps have been made yet to put those plans into action. I can only be patient for so long before I start thinking that these things are never going to happen.....

I want a financially stable future (amongst many other things) for myself and my family one day. I dont want to wait around for another 5-10 years or so before things finally start to take off.

[GlitterAndStuds]

I don't think it would be a waste of time at all. It's funny, I was just having this sort of discussion with a friend of mine the other day.

Like others have said, marriage shouldn't have to be the whole point of a relationship. It's not something that should be rushed or stressed about, or have a deadline. See, the thing with marriage these days is, I'd say 85% of it is simply so they can have the one marriage day. It might be due to the way society is now, where they get the one day where everything is about them. But they don't seem to think about what marriage is. I know so many people who are already divorced. And now it's no longer taboo to get divorced, so you can have your day, and then in a year you can just get rid of the person.

I'm certainly not saying this applies to everyone. I would love to spend the rest of my life with my boyfriend. If he proposed to me right now, I'd be ecstatic, yes, but at the same time, I've been with him a year and am STILL learning new things about him all the time.

I'm kind of getting away from myself a little bit and going all over the place with this, haha. I think we are sort of ingrained to believe that we need to get married in our 20's because our parents did. And maybe that's why it's sort of looked at as a race now with many people. A lot of them are in such a rush to get married without really considering what marriage requires. I'd be perfectly happy being with my boyfriend forever, with or without marriage, it makes no difference to me as long as we're together. I definitely don't think it's a waste of time. Different strokes for different folks.

[Ashlee T.]

Some great insight from you folks, and I truly appreciate it.

WC - you seem to read my mind, feel my very feelings in this issue. I think it feels somewhat hypocritical to expect me to issue some sort of verbal commitment, when his future is so uncertain and because he hasn't been tested, can't adequately plan for future. But at the same time, I feel like I can't say that to him...so I don't. I feel like he's the sweetest, most patient person I've ever met and truly would do backflips through firey hoops for me if he needed to (let's hope he never does, ha!)......BUT I'm pushing myself away from him, not even purposely, because I feel like I was not informed of what I was getting myself into, and now I fear the idea of "falling" in this situation. Yet he wants to move forward, wants me to fall in love with him, wants me to commit. And he says he accepts me the way I am......but I feel that he only accepts it while he patiently waits for me to change.

In the meantime, I hear about his mothers death from HD, his grandfathers recent death from HD........and wait every day to find out that one of his sweet precious nieces (who's mother has the HD gene) has it. Sort of puts a damper on things.

Marriage, I feel that true marriage is marriage of the heart which is then LATER validated by laws and vows. My problem with marriage is not the idea of MARRIAGE, it's the doubt that I'll ever truly feel comfortable enough with someone, trust them enough, and trust my feelings for them enough to do so. So it's easier for me to look at every situation as "i'm not getting married', instead of weighing everything on whether or not I'll get married. I feel like that gives me a clearer perspective.

Again, I feel like he's just being patient waiting for me to change. But I have put my feelings on hold and they seem to be frozen. I want so badly to fall in love with this person, but something in me just will not let it happen. I care deeply for him, but certainly can't tell him we have a future together, and that's what he wants to know. And to him a "future" together means marriage.....something I certainly cannot say I want at this point. Otherwise, he considers it a waste of time. Which is odd considering he has always said he didn't know if he ever wanted to get married either.

*sigh*

[WildChild]

Life and relationships are always a gamble but there are also things that are a certainty. In this case you are lacking information, not because it isn't available, but because it hasn't been sought. It sounds like you have a healthy sense of self preservation.

His romantic hope is that you will love him and HD or no HD, will not make a difference. That means you accepting what could be years of dealing with his decline and increasing need for care. It could mean watching someone you love slowly changing and dying. This could happen unexpectedly from a variety of causes but he has something that in this day and age can be tested for and anticipated. Why anyone, knowing this possibility, would risk passing it to their children is beyond me, that's not loving. He needs to get tested or simply plan on adopting.

The romantic notion of star crossed lovers, of patiently suffering for someone else really doesn't benefit anyone. It's one thing to have love and passion and good years together and then face an unexpected tragedy together, It's another to walk into it with that hanging over your heads, not knowing, especially when you could know. This reminds me in a way of a woman I know who after 3 years with a man, learned he had herpes. When confronted he came up with: he's on meds and avoided sex with her when it's active, if she really cared for him it wouldn't matter, and that's why he always wanted a condom for oral sex. She tested clean but his willingness to put her at risk to get what he wanted was clearly wrong. He keep from her, her ability to make a choice.

We all have a need to love and be loved but it has to be honest on both sides. This man isn't willing to let you do that with all the information you need to make a choice. He wants you to commit to give what he wants and to perhaps see him through an eventually fatal health ordeal but it doesn't sound like he is willing do what is needed to give you what you want and need. It sounds like he is essentially asking you to make a blind choice with no safety net. If he got tested and you knew he had, say a 90% probablity of getting HD, you might then make an informed choice to be with him and plan your lives to live to the fullest and then to best care for him and protect you. He's asking you to commit without that option.

[Ashlee T.]

I think because of hearing "Well if you loved him, this wouldn't even matter", or "If everything else in the relationship was what you needed, this wouldn't be as big of a deal", I feel somewhat shallow for feeling the way that I do. But I don't feel that I'm a shallow person. I feel like being with someone, falling in love, then both of you finding out that one of you has a fatal illness is one thing..... but my situation is different. Totally different.

I don't want him to get tested because I want him to. I want him to do it because HE wants to, because he wants to make a responsible choice for his future and the future of his wife whether that be me or not. I want him to do it when he's ready, not by force. But in the meantime, while I accept that he hasn't done it, I have to also accept that this could very likely be why my feelings for him have gone on stand still. It feels terrible inside.......it truly does.

He's an exceptional person, but his flaws are things I'm not accustomed to. But at the same time, he's very understanding when I point those things out to him. He has no real history of any long term relationships since high school, so I feel like I'm having to teach him everything. It's exhausting. He's very willing to learn, but seems to lack common sense in a lot of things. I often feel like I'm the boss, I'm the mother, I'm the leader......but sometimes I don't want to be those things. I want to not HAVE to be those things. Although he is improving, for the duration of our relationship I've constantly had to tell him how to do things, provide clarity, make all the plans, point out things when he's being childish. He agrees with almost everything I say. I've also noticed him in family settings, he never starts conversation, on Thanksgiving, we sat for 2 hours with 14 members of his family and I tried to listen and stay involved, but he didn't say two self initiated words, (that were not responses to something someone else asked). Yet then he'll complain about how he doesn't feel "a part of the family". I had to point out to him that he's sitting around sulking saying to himself "they're not even talking to me, they don't even treat me like family"......but he's not talking either.

Those are things that he's improving on, which is a plus, but I feel like I've had to make that happen. Then 4 months into the relationship when I found out the whole story about his past, why he's so insecure, scared of rejection, and the disease..........my feelings just stopped. I know they shouldn't have, but they did. I keep thinking they'll come back, start to grow....because he's a great guy and the last thing I want is to hurt this person. But all of a sudden when I pop off something negative about marriage (which is typical for me) and he says "Well thanks....".........I'm feeling even more pressure.

WC you provide so much clarity and seem to understand this more than absolutely anyone I've talked to. No, my relationship is not perfect, who's is? But I truly believe this situation : secretive past revealed only after fighting, HD 50/50, no further talk of it at all, no testing, yet wanting me to want to be with him forever...........I have built a wall around my feelings that seems indestructable even by me.

[Hopeless Dork]

I personally don't think that marriage should be the goal of a relationship. I think if you are with someone that is committed to being faithful to you, loves you, cares about you and makes you feel good.... someone you have fun with that makes your day better than it would be without them -- how could that be a waste of time?

No one knows how long their days on this earth are , to spend them alone until you find the one that will sign a peice of paper is what to me would seem like a waste of time. We all know those peices of paper aren't worth the ink they are signed with if the people don't mean them with their heart. Married men and women cheat, lie, and be just as cruel to their partners as unmarried men and women can be.

If you are with someone that doesn't meet your criteria for spouse forever, but they make your here and now time precious.... firstly I think maybe its time to re-evaluate that criteria because if they make you happy and warm and feel good... why wouldn't they be fit to do that for you forever? Maybe what a person thinks they needed in a future wife/husband...isn't what they trully needed.

But either way on that, if for whatever reason you have no intention of marrying the person you are with, unless your every day living breathing, every second of the minute goal is marriage - time spent with the person is not wasted.

I am not anti marriage but marriage is not something I think about or think needs to happen to be happy in life. If you are lucky enough to find someone that can put a smile on your face, light your fires and make you feel safe and loved, those emotions you are feeling are not being wasted -- they are fueling your being making the present wonderful.

[pretzel]

II am not anti marriage but marriage is not something I think about or think needs to happen to be happy in life. If you are lucky enough to find someone that can put a smile on your face, light your fires and make you feel safe and loved, those emotions you are feeling are not being wasted -- they are fueling your being making the present wonderful.

That's well put.

Commitment is way more important than a "marriage certificate".

[WildChild]

WC you provide so much clarity and seem to understand this more than absolutely anyone I've talked to. No, my relationship is not perfect, who's is? But I truly believe this situation : secretive past revealed only after fighting, HD 50/50, no further talk of it at all, no testing, yet wanting me to want to be with him forever...........I have built a wall around my feelings that seems indestructable even by me.

I've been there in a way and had to look atthis closely. I've spoken before about my ex who had long term unemployment and multiple illnesses. At one point, after we'd gotten throught the cancer and several other things, he misunderstood what a doctor said and believed himself to have alzheimers. I told him we needed to talk with his doctors and make some long range plans. Conversation with one of the doctors just setting an appointment had given me a pretty clear idea that he was off base. But his response to the situation really solidified my need to leave.

Essentially the future (if he'd actually had alzheimers) was that he would be unable to work and uninsured as it got worse. That would leave me trying to care for him and support us. I've never been a big dollar earner, no one's ever offered me a massive salary. At some point he would need to be in a care facility, to do that you have to spend down your resources to qualify. With this starting at about age 50 and probably playing out over 10 to 20 years, I would have ended up a desititute older woman, having spent the entire marriage caring for him. (he had lost the first of several jobs the day after we were married and started having health problems within a couple weeks of the marriage - it was a long 8 years). I wouldn't have been able to save, to start a retirement fund (cashed mine out to help us survive), to ever hope to own a home, if I started earning more money I would have been required to pay more of his expenses. My life would end up entirely in service to his support and care.

He was completely unable to grasp that not only did his future care have to be addressed but also my needs and future. I had already told him some time before I was leaving (had to become fully employed first since I'd been stuck out in the sticks with my car not running and his health so poor) because of his treatment of me and my kids. He felt that I should stay because he would require my care. It was an attitude that I was required to fill his needs regardless of the cost to my life. This was a man who had refused to come get me and my daughter when his vehicle, which I was driving, broke down in the middle of the night and left us stranded. That was just one of many such instances.

This forced me to face head on many of the ideas we are fed about what love and relationships are about. When there is true caring and love on both sides, there is a desire to ensure both get what they need and are both cared for and about, not just physically but emotionally. I think in a healthy relationship it may not always be equal but it balances out over time. There are people who get what they need in caring for a sick or debilitated loved one. I know a man who's wife died of diabetes after a protracted struggle, he turned right around and married another seriously obese woman with diabetes. This may work for them both, but it's not really emotionally healthy.

When you are facing a possible situation that could put you in this position, you should be able to have all the information that could be available. You can't know what he would chose if the tables were turned. If you love him you may choose to be with him but would need to have your future as protected as possible. If he loves you and gets the HD, he should want to ensure you wouldn't be left financially destroyed as well as emotionally devistated. He may feel that unless you chose him without knowing, you don't really love him. But some of the other stuff you are now describing makes me think he is emotionally immature and you could have a long tough road with him.

Follow your gut feelings. That little voice speaks for a reason. Don't concern yourself with what others may think of you. There are members of my ex's family who probably regard me as the B of the century for leaving. Hey, I was the one not knowing where the next meal would come from because he was unemployed for a 2 -1/2 year stretch, while they were took trips to Europe. I was the one setting up IVs, changing dressings, cleaning up vomit, they never showed up with a casserole or an offer to give me a day off and care for him. You can bet nothing would have changed if I had stuck around and he actually had alzheimers. If they see me in a store (this happened) and literally turn their heads and pretend they don't see me - fine.

You do what is right for you, no one else will. If you cannot deal with his unwillingness to face this and plan accordingly, leave now. Don't get yourself guilted into anything. The issue isn't really his possible genetic health situation so much as his unwillingness to deal with it in a manner that you consider mature and responsible. The unwillingness to participate in discussions and them complaining and such, doesn't bode well for a relationship anyway.

[the wench]

marriage isnt the be all and end all of a relationship its a piece of paper at the end of the day altho obvs it does show a level of commitment and give peace of mind that its a serious relationship but sayin that so does getting engaged but without all the hassle...much beta choice is a long engagement...shows commitment and that u want only them and then see what the future holds after that....if ur stil loved up and happy then marriage wud b the way 4ward but if ur not then its kind of a clean hassle free break up if it goes wrong....