[mdraven380]

We had another really bad arguement last saturday night. We were argueing until 4:30 am. He said some pretty mean things to me.
I'm noticing more and more my bf always has to have control of everything. He's really jealous of my male friends and doesn't care too much for any of my friends. But yet is's ok for us to sit in a bar with two of his ex gf's every weekend plus him talking to his ex about money or the kids all the time and I don't put up a fuss. If a guy hits on me or even talks to me he gets very angry, But yet says it doesn't bother him. If we are having a few beers and I get buzzed before he does he gets snippy with me. He turns up his music in the car but if my cd is on he keeps turning it down.
After oour agrument SAturday night things seem different.
What happend was we went to see a comidian who is my friend Glen's fiance. Her nam is Bag Lady Sue. At the end of the show Glen wanted me to meet her and I asked my bf to come up with me. Glen said to my bf "you better be good to her or I'll kick your *ss". He was joking and my bf took offense but didn't show it right away. When we got in the car to come home we had another friend with us and i explained to him that Glen had been a support system to me through my other breakups so my bf proceeds to say that his ex left him at xmas time. When we got to our other destination all I did was ask why he had to bring her up again?. He became angry with me and ask me if I wanted to argue? I said no that I was only asking a question. He said that I had issues and that he was sick of dealing with my bs. So I said I would get my things from his house so he wouldn't have to deal with me again. I feel like whenever he is jealous he turns things around so that it will cause and arguement but it will look like my fault.
Like yesterday, istead of him asking me if I could get his daughter off to school in the morning cause his mom is sick he chose to start and arguement with me by saying that he does favors for me and I don't do anything for him? I was so confused. I told him that I can't read his mind so from now on if he needs a favor all he has to do is adk me. He said it is hard for him to ask me, but I don't understand how it would be easier just to start an arguemnt? This reasoning makes no sense to me. I know I do goofy things too but I'm still trying to understand him. The night before the arguement he said he never wanted to be without me in his life and he loved me. When we argued and I said I was going to leave him he said that if I left he wouldn't be sitting there lonely. I said am I that easily replaceable? He said he didn't want to be alone. So now I feel like the only reason he is with me is because he doesn't want to be alone.

I would think I would be happy. I finally have a car, new furniture and I'm fixing up my bedroom, painted it getting new carpet and new furniture this week.
But I'm so so depressed. I feel like his emotions rule how my day is going to be.
I'm also afraid of being alone so I guess I'm guilty of the same thing if that is what he is doing to me.
Aslo I've noticed this patter with all the guys that come into my life. It seems like they are always down on their luck. Like they've lost their job and don't have money. But yet they will say, I don;t know what happened I took care of my ex and always had money.
Whe do I always have to come into their lives when they have nothing? Then I feel sorry for them and start buying things for them.
No man ever took care of me! Ever. Guess that means I'm not good enough or don't mean enough to any man?
Well anyway, thanks for letting me vent.
I will be 45 in April and wonder if I will ever find the right man to love me unconditonally and if I will ever be truely happy?

[pretzel]

Not sure exactly what to say except that on first read the term narcissist came to mind. They don't change.

I hope I'm wrong.

As for you happiness is always out there. Never quite looking for it and never take it for granted once it finds you.

[WildChild]

I've been thinking about this kind of thing lately. I feel for you, I've had similar patterns. I tend to see men through their challenges, get treated like last weeks dog food for it and then when I can't take anymore and leave, they get upset! I've been trying to untangle the dynamics because they can be pretty good at disguising what or where they are until they have you emotionally pulled in.

I have a couple theories on the thinking they must have in this. One would be, "I'm a loser and she still likes me, so she must not be worth much" This ignores that when you first met they seemed to have their act together and it wasn't until later that you learned they were (take your pick); serially unemployed, string of bad relationships, bankrutcies/bad debt, legal problems, serious/reoccurant health issues. Of course it takes time as a relationship develops to really get to know a person, their history and true situation. Often by the time you find out what their true situation and self is, you have enough connection that saying, "This looks all too familiar - call me when you get it straightened out.", is really tough, if not impossible. I suppose it can happen that helping a man through a rough patch, being there to back him up, can result in a deeper, stronger connection. But my personal experience has been that they resent you for having seen them in this "weak" state and try to get a sense of power for themselves by belittling you.

Another possiblity is what I call the MommyHo. In this one, the woman should back him up, run errands, pay bills, make him feel like a big boy, solve the problems, clean up the messes, fix dinner, indulge any little oddities of behavior, shrug off tantrums and then shut the...up, be sexy (when he wants it) and act adoring. In other words be a mommy he can control and sleep with.

Neither are really adult relationships. We all have areas or times of immaturity but these aren't temporary and don't seem to get worked through. No doubt there are women with analogous behaviors, wanting a "daddy" but many generations of social and legal conditioning in the past enforced women's dependence. There are still a lot of vestiges of that thinking in our social and legal structure.

Jealousy is an ugle beastie and has it's roots in control and ownership. If he can't trust then you need to leave. That will only get worse. He sounds conflicted, says he loves and values you but then flips out. I'm learning, finally, that we don't do others a benefit by allowing them to treat us as less than we are or more poorly than we deserve. Allowing that isn't being understanding, patient or giving them time to work things out, it's simply allowing them to feed their lesser side at your expense.

Personally I think you should tell him this is unacceptable; the picking fights, the mean remarks, the double standard that he can spend time with women friends but you get flack for having male friends, the jealousy, the expected mind reading. Tell him you are backing off, take some time, let him work through some of this and take it more slowly and see if he can straighten it out. If not - good bye.

Life flies by, before you know it you are looking back at a lot of years spent with people with whom you could never have the relationship you want and need. The more time you give them, the less time you have for someone you might really build something with.

[mdraven380]

thank you pretzel and WC.

Narcassit and the mommyho defintion sound about right to me.
I just keep noticing how mantipulative he is and always turns things around so it's not his fault. How things are a double standard with him. He can't always explain himself either. The first time I met his mom she got my phone number from the phone book and called me. She wanted to tell me that when my bf was young he was in a school for "slow" children and how he was such a great guy and she wanted me to be patient with him. I thought this was strange. Kinda like she was making sure she could find someone who would put up with him. He was with his ex for 13yrs and they have a 9 yr old daughter together. He raises his ex's 15 yr old son to a previous marriage. He was never married to his ex because he said he didn't feel right about it. He told me that he couldn't stand her yet he took car of her. He said she was lazy, never cleaned the house never took care of herself or the kids so he told he he wished she would go find someone else. So se ended up cheating on him and they broke up and got back together several times after that. Somtimes I feel like he says all the same things to me that all my other ex's said.
I thought to myself that if my bf told me to go find someone esle I sure wouldn't stick around either. Then he said he was shocked when his ex did find someone else.
He says he loves me because i do so much for him and I'm a good person.
I have such mixed emotions right now.
I don't even want to tell him I love him anymore just to see if he will tell me first. But I watch how he is with his mom and his sisters. They all play these games with each other. Holding out to see who will talk to who first.
My family was never ever like that. We were very close. I could depend on then no matter what. I could trust them no matter what. All I have left is one sister and my niece. I really wanted to find a man that I could count on to be there for me, mostly emotionally. Maybe I'm asking for too much?
You would think after 30yrs of bad relationships I would know by now. But I just keep trying over and over again.
If you truely love someone I don't think you can replace them whether the die or just leave.
I swore to myself taht after the last break up with my ex I wasn't going to tell another guy that I love him. But I got caught up in the moment and I really felt that way.
It's like he just likes seeing me be unsure so he knows he's got me. Just a few nights ago he said to me"please don't ever leave me". Almost begging me. He told me he wanted to be with me forever? and that he loves me. Now after our last arguement he also brought up the fact that he had to "crawl back to me 3 times already". I wasn't keeping count. He made me feel like he didn't want me around at those times so I said I'd leave. Then he throws it in my face how many people I've slept with even though I never told him. He just contradicts himself all the time and I eve watched him do it with the kids too.
He says he took care of his ex for 13 yrs but here I am giving 110% and feeling like it's still not good enough.

[pretzel]

No need to thank me. I'm on the same roller coaster.

I could very easily replace "he" with "she" and wrote the same post.

It isn't a nice place sometimes.

[mdraven380]

No need to thank me. I'm on the same roller coaster.

I could very easily replace "he" with "she" and wrote the same post.

It isn't a nice place sometimes.

I'm glad you understand.

[WildChild]

Read back through what you wrote as if someone else wrote it. What would you advise them?
You haven't been with him that long, his true colors are showing. How long do you ignore that he's got a tp tail hanging off his pants?

[KMonte85]

One clear msg I gather from your posts is that your boyfriend has an obvious difficulty in communicating his emotions effectively.

It sounds (at least from what his mom has said) that this has been a life long struggle for him and that anyone that wants to maintain a relationship with him will need a great deal of patience. Someone like that is VERY difficult to have a constructive serious discussion with, because things will get said that are very destructive and contradictory.

From what I am reading in your posts, it seems like when he needs to air out his feelings, he can't do so without getting angry and frustrated and ultimately saying some very rude things to you. He may mean them, he may not. But that's not really what is at issue... it's that he has this problem, and you've already felt the brunt of it to the extent that you're now conflicted about where to take this relationship.

Have you tried having a conversation with him about his communication skills? He might already know, if it has been a life long struggle for him. But it may help if you bring it up, so that he can recognize what he's doing and try to improve. A relationship with little/no constructive communication will eventually break down, as I think you are seeing now. He needs to work on this if you two want to keep a healthy relationship!

[pretzel]

I'm glad you understand.

Well, truth be told, it's not easy. Over the last couple of years I've pretty much run the gammut of emotions and the "what's wrong with her". I'd like to think that because of her age, it's menopausal related. At the root I think that may be the manifestation of the severity of the other issues. But at the same time I look at her personality, the way she treats me, the way she interacts with her kids and the way her kids interact with her and myself. There is unfortunately a commonality between our two situations.

Not sure where but you mentioned Paxil. My wife's been on it since before I met her. I do believe there is a connection and a causal effect, but she's very comfortable taking it and the thought of switching is something she's not willing to entertain.

One thing I'm not ready to do is give up. I still feel for her deep down the same I did when I first met her. I'll fight on. I may win, I may lose, but at least I will know deep down that I did my best.

Deep down inside is where your answers lie.

[WildChild]

Starting off with depression and adding in menopause and alcohol, you have a mess to deal with. Would she consider seeing a doc to do a full physical and re-evaluate her needs? It can take some tweeking but HRT may help and weaning her off the antidepressants may be a good idea. She really should leave alcohol out of the mix.

I'm just starting Dr. Christiane Northrup's book, The Wisdom of Menopause. She used to practice here in my city but is apparently in Maine these days. Her books earlier books were wonderful, so I have high expectations for this one. Anyway, you are a reader, you might want to take a look at this one. As you've pointed out, men go through it right alongside the women in their lives. (we ladies have noticed many man go through a form of it too). You'd think with all the boomers hitting this, it would be one of the most discussed and researched areas!

Sorry, mdreaven didn't mean to hijack.