[kygirl]

So as you all know, things with the boy and I had been going really well... Yesterday I was at the track and he came to get me and we went to a work thing and he told me he loved me. I was so surprised. Then it all went downhill...

We hung out for a while and went back to his place. We were chatting and I told him I wasn't sure that I believed he loved me. Which really hurt his feelings. I told him, it wasn't I guess that I didn't believe him but that it was still hard for me to believe anyone could love me because no one has told me that in a really long time. We chatted some more and I got on the subject of whether that made me his girlfriend and him by boyfriend kinda joking and he said "I don't want to put labels on things. That implies that we're heading towards marriage and I don't want to even think about that."

I was absolutely floored. So I asked him again, and I was like, "I'm not talking about marriage, but really, after 4 months and all the time we spend together, you don't want to be my boyfriend? " He just said he didn't know about all of it (to summarize).

He ended up going to sleep. I of course, had been drinking and tried to wake him up to talk, called my best friend hysterical, and ended up going to sleep on the couch. When I woke up this morning, I didn't feel well but that was all overwhelmed by the sadness I felt. My heart is really hurting. He had to take me to my car and he was like "are you going to let me see you again?" I said yes, but I don't know what to do honestly.

I had really given myself to this relationship , to trusting him, to being with him and I feel like him telling me he loves me but that he can't even label himself as my boyfriend really makes me sad. I dont' know what to say to him. I was supposed to cook him a belated bday dinner tonight, but honestly I kind of want to be alone, and I kind of want to take all of my stuff out of his house next time I'm there.

I'm sure a lot of this stems from the fact that every guy I dated over hte last few years never wanted to label our relationship and ended up leaving me. I have no intentions of rushing him to a marriage, but I'm not sure I can budge on being his girlfriend...

Thoughts?

[Mes T]

Even your past relationships were like this? Maybe you need to reevaluate the type of guy you go for...?

I too would be floored in your situation. To me a boyfriend + girlfriend certainly doesn't equal marriage. It's just... what two people who are committed (at least for the time being) to being with one another typically label themselves. What, so if some chick at a bar asked him if he had a girlfriend, he'd be able to say "no?". Blech.

Maybe you could discuss with him why he feels that those labels lead to marriage. (Maybe his parents were "boyfriend and girlfriend" for like 2 days and then his dad proposed, who knows.) And you need to tell him exactly why YOU need those labels. It's like a verbal agreement that you honor one another and are exclusive and yadda yadda.

What do you think?

[kygirl]

Mes, the situation is different and I feel like the reasons he feels that way are different than in the past, it just still bothers me because it makes me *feel* the way I did in the past. He's going through a divorce. I think the idea of marriage is just a bit scary to him because of what he's going through. To some extent (as much as I can), I understand, but the whole thing just really threw me for a loop.

We actually talked after I posted this. I have decided to wait on the labels. I know he's not saying that because he doesn't want to be with me. He's scared and I can't blame him for that. He married someone and thought it was going to be forever and it wasn't and even though I want the labels, it's more about knowing he cares and wants to be with me. The label can wait. I mean, I could have a label and someone who didn't care about me the way he does. I did explain to him though, the *why* it upset me. I think he now understands why I freaked out.

There is no doubt in my mind that if we continue to grow and trust each other, that we can make this work for a very long time. I just haev to trust that if I give him time, he'll come around on giving me my label

[Hopeless Dork]

I know you must be hurt, the alcohol, it sounds like.. gave you the courage to say what your subconcious has been mulling over a while now. What does he see me as?

When you talk to him again, if he doesn't want to put a 'label' on things ask him to define what you are to him if not his girlfriend. It would be a good time to ask him if he is still looking around, or if he is content in being with you, if he is monogomous sexually with you... those are the things that matter more than the labels.

Don't allow him to say that saying "I love you" should answer all your questions you ever had about how he see's you. It doesn't.

But you have to be honest with yourself. If you see marriage potential in him and have a time frame for that and he is too commitmentaphobe to even call you a girlfriend.... this might not be the right guy for you.

If you are not marriage minded at this time in your life and just want a loving committed guy to love on and be faithful to and expect the same from him and whatever happens happens down the road ... then you might be able to work through this.


He's not an alien, he's lived on planet earth long enough to know that most people want to know, especially after 4 months, if what they have means something to the other person. Labels are unecessary but they do help define the situation easily enough. Calling someone a girlfriend/boyfriend... implies exclusivity, implies that they are a couple and not seeking others.


If he won't give you the comfort of a label, he owes you the comfort of a definition. And if he can't tell you he is monogomous, can't tell you he isn't interested in seeing other people, can't tell you he's content to be with you and you alone.... you have to decide if you are willing to settle for a fwb + random I love you's situation.

He may need some reassurance too, that you are not one of those girls that has a check off book where you are like dating 4 month, become girlfriend, girlfriend 1 year, get engaged, married after 2 year engagement, kid 1 after 2nd' year of marriage...oh there ARE indeed... girls like that.

If you are one of them, no offense to you... but this might not be the right guy for you. If however, you are not that way... you should reassure him that being your boyfriend doesn't come with any timelines for marriage. It just offers the security you need to feel that you are spending your time, putting your energy to someone worthy of receiving it. Whether you marry at the end of it all or not.

Me and my boyfriend have been together a few years and marriage has never passed through either one of our lips and I can honestly say I don't think either of us even thinks of it. We are faithful to each other, we love each other and we are happy with what we have together. But he started calling me his girlfriend, me calling him boyfriend... about 4 months in. We had the talk about not looking to date others about 2 months in.

I think its natural for you to want to know those things, and he shouldnt react like you are a crazy person after spending 4 months with a guy and wanting to know how he see's the relationship... mariage mumbojumbo aside.

I'm so sorry your hurting right now.

[WildChild]

I'm sure a lot of this stems from the fact that every guy I dated over hte last few years never wanted to label our relationship and ended up leaving me. I have no intentions of rushing him to a marriage, but I'm not sure I can budge on being his girlfriend...

Thoughts?

Looking at this, just based on the information you have provided, there are strong hints of your pattern. He has said he loves you, instead of accepting that as a good beginning, you questioned it (making him either a liar or wrong for loving you), drug in your insecurities and tried to lock him down. He was honest and while ready to admit that he loves you, not quite accepting of the gf/bf lable. You went into emotional overdrive. Now you are fullfilling your expectation and forcing the issue. Girlfreind lable or gone. Then you can add another man to the list who didn't want to "lable" the relationship and left.

Sounds like you need to cut down or cut out the drinking and work on your self esteem separate from any one else's response to you. Why can't you accept that he could love you? Until you can believe yourself to be lovable and worth loving, you aren't likely to change this pattern. I deal with it too, many of us do. We all have our times of self doubt but if you truly cannot believe that he loves you, this isn't going far. Neediness is a repellant. He may not think it out specifically but at some level he can feel it. First it will be needing to be called a girlfriend, then it will be needing to be engaged or married - not because you love him but because you've invested so much, done what you think a good gf does and you need the reassurance. What happens when you have the ring and still don't love yourself? Then what will it take to get past the need?

Can you see what I'm saying here? Neediness will ultimately attract a manipulative user or it will repell. Find reasons and ways to love yourself and know that you are lovable no matter what and not just if a man it willing to jump through hoops to respond to your insecurities.

I'm not saying he doesn't have his issues. I don't know, but you can at least admit that you can't accept that someone could love you. You have to resolve this or it will sabotoge you over and over.

[kygirl]

HD,

You're completely right. He knows I want to get married someday, but I have also told him I'm not in a hurry to do so. He knows that I want it to be right and well considered when it happens. He did tell me last night that he's not seeing anyone else and doesn't want to be with anyone else. And I do believe him 150%. I just really didn't realize he'd be so adverse to calling me his gf.

Honestly, from what I know of his previous marriage, I really get the impression that he loved his wife, but he got married because he felt pressured to...like it was the "next step". I think in that moment, I made him think, like you said, that I was one of "those" girls. Especially when I said the part about "we've been together 4 months and you don't want to be my boyfriend"

After our discussion, I feel like I do kind of see it from his view a bit more. He really does care about me a great deal and honestly I think he has no desire to see anyone else or be with anyone else. I think he just needs to know that I'm not going to give him the timeline. He also has many friends that are getting married right now which I'm sure he thinks has me wanting to go there and it doesn't because I've been through it multiple with many friends. I never thought I'd find someone I could actually see myself with for a long time.

I am sure there will be more talks of this over time, and if he tells me straight up that he never will get married again, I will walk away. I don't care if it's 2 years or 5 years or 7 years. But he does know it's important to me, but like I said before, I know he cares a great deal about me. If it gets to the point (I won't say what kind of timeframe becuase I have no idea) that I need to hear him say that I'm his girlfriend and that I need for him to be okay with that, if he can't then we'll cross that bridge when we get there. This has been very different, but I knew that going in to this situation becuase of where he was in the divorce process, etc.

For now, I am going to keep enjoying being with him and just enjoying having someone who I do think truly cares about me and wants to be with me.

[kygirl]

Looking at this, just based on the information you have provided, there are strong hints of your pattern. He has said he loves you, instead of accepting that as a good beginning, you questioned it (making him either a liar or wrong for loving you), drug in your insecurities and tried to lock him down. He was honest and while ready to admit that he loves you, not quite accepting of the gf/bf lable. You went into emotional overdrive. Now you are fullfilling your expectation and forcing the issue. Girlfreind lable or gone. Then you can add another man to the list who didn't want to "lable" the relationship and left.

Sounds like you need to cut down or cut out the drinking and work on your self esteem separate from any one else's response to you. Why can't you accept that he could love you? Until you can believe yourself to be lovable and worth loving, you aren't likely to change this pattern. I deal with it too, many of us do. We all have our times of self doubt but if you truly cannot believe that he loves you, this isn't going far. Neediness is a repellant. He may not think it out specifically but at some level he can feel it. First it will be needing to be called a girlfriend, then it will be needing to be engaged or married - not because you love him but because you've invested so much, done what you think a good gf does and you need the reassurance. What happens when you have the ring and still don't love yourself? Then what will it take to get past the need?

Can you see what I'm saying here? Neediness will ultimately attract a manipulative user or it will repell. Find reasons and ways to love yourself and know that you are lovable no matter what and not just if a man it willing to jump through hoops to respond to your insecurities.

I'm not saying he doesn't have his issues. I don't know, but you can at least admit that you can't accept that someone could love you. You have to resolve this or it will sabotoge you over and over.

You're right. I do have issues with that and that is a lot of what I had to talk to the therapist about (on a quick side note on the drinking issue, it's Derby week in Kentucky so it's kind of a big partytime week. I don't normally drink that much) But back to my point. You are totally right. I did flip into emotional overdrive. When I asked about the bf/gf thing though I think I really did mean it kind of playfully but I just didn't anticipate the reaction.

On the I love yous, he caught me really offguard on that too. I know I am worth loving and that I have lots of great attributes. I think when I get particularly stressed out, I just forget sometimes. This was the last week of final exams, so I kinda have been on edge....not the best time to be having a heated discussion I'm sure.

But I think we both have our own issues. I think most of the blow up came from yes, me viewing it as him not wanting me or wanting to be with me because I didn't understand really. We come from different worlds. Me from habitual dating and him from a decently long marriage. We've got a bit of a learning curve to figure out, but yes, I don't want to let my own insecurities cause me to push him away. That is why I am trying to also see this from his side and realize that a label isn't going to change how I feel about him. (or vice versa) I want to be with him and I want to work through my issues with myself and understand that I can't think that it's always about me.

Thanks

[Ashlee T.]

Well I'm late responding, but I'm glad you've resolved some of this with him. Labels mean NOTHING hun...feelings mean EVERYTHING. So he tells you he loves you which is HUGE but you were more focused on "does this mean I'm your girlfriend" because you were more focused on the label than the feeling.

He's not going to change what you felt in the past, or how you were made to feel. He can't, because it's the past. Your insecurities are your own, and it's not his place to have to nourish those insecurities and make it all better. (sounds harsh, don't mean it that way).

In your mind "I'm on a path to marriage", "if things keep going well" and you're looking into the future. I think in his mind hes on no designated path, he's just enjoying the NOW and still trying to unravel all the mess LABELS got him into in his past.

When a guy asks me "what are we?", I find it juvenile, and sorry...don't slap me, but I find it shallow. Don't you see me for more than that? Can't you spend your time focused on developing intimacy and bonding with me, as opposed to spending your time worrying about putting a name to what we so clearly already are. The last guy that did that I told "call us whatever you want". He wasn't satisfied with that response. He needed to hear the words "You're my boyfriend". And I, couldn't force myself to say those words.....simply because he had such a strong desire to label it.

You want to be his "girlfriend", but perhaps you are his companion, his love, his friend.......and I don't know about you but I'd MUCH rather be those things to someone any day. Why? Because they are true, they are REAL, they are more than just a name, they are an action, they are feelings, they are EVERYTHING that a label is not. And at the end of the day, there's never any guarantee someone will stay. Putting a label on it won't make him stay. Marrying him won't make him stay. And that's something you have to deal with inside YOU.

Happy Derby weekend. I'm not attending. It's going to RAIN RAIN RAIN and I don't want to be there for it.

[Hopeless Dork]

For me, I like the comfort that comes with being my guy's "girlfriend"..

Who is hopeless dork? Oh she's my girlfriend.

Who is hopeless dork? Oh... she's well, you see its complicated... I don't know. I love her though.

While the feelings are the same, when defining the relationship to outsiders (which really means bleep-all) it can breed some insecurities when a man is not telling friends, co-workers etc... not proclaiming himself as 'taken'.

When I was single and I knew a guy had a gf, I would see him differently than I would if he didn't. Some girls will hit on a married guy, many will hit on a guy with a gf (I don't see no ring on his finger!) but many steer clear of guys in committed relationship, gf, wife, live in lady friend, baby mama, etc etc.

I think there is a natural fear when a guy doesn't want to proclaim their taken status, that they are fishing for a bigger better deal... and I don't know any female that feels comfortable giving their love to a man that is hanging on to them til something more exciting comes along... which is what it feels like without a defintion of their faithfulness to you, without the proclaimation that they are no longer deep sea fishing for females.

If he has told you that he is faithful to you, loves you, isn't seeking others... You are , for all intensive purposes "his girlfriend" whether he likes the word or not lol. I agree with BD that labels mean NOTHING... but we live in a society that uses them, like it or not.

Are you a man or woman? Are you straight or gay? What is your job title? Though for some people there is no easy answer to any of those questions ...people have an inherent need to put people in a box, to organize them neatly... its just the way people are.

I think he might be scared that you associate the title of girlfriend, with a step in a direction of marriage and I doubt he fears being your boyfriend but possibly fears what that means for the future, in your mind... if at 4 months that means you need to be his gf , how many months til you need to be his fiance? Etc. Be sure to be clear and honest what your needs and intentions are.

I agree with WC up there that neediness makes you an extreme target for a manipulative partner, or can push some men away. But is there really any among us that have no needs? No hopes or expectations of the person we give so much of ourselves to? I think not, but the level of need and way we express those needs is what makes all the difference in the world.

Correct me if I am wrong, but I think I read a posting of yours which talks about you losing a great deal of weight recently, having done that myself... there is an adjustment period (I got to my ideal weight years ago and I am still in it) of self-esteem for women that were unhappy with themselves and made changes to improve on that.

It took me a long time to accept that my boyfriend loved me like I love him. I didn't really see myself as worthy of it, though I accepted it and didn't doubt him verbally... in my mind I was still insecure and worried if it could be.

Those worries you have of feeling like its possible for him to really love you are things you need to work out on your own if he hasn't given you any reasons to doubt him. Accept his love for what he says it is, and work on yourself, your insides to believe it...without making him feel like he can love you to peices and you'll never buy into it.

Imagine the shoe being on the other foot and you loving a man completely and him saying, "nah, no you don't" eventually you'd tire of having your heartfelt words fall on deaf ears.


I'm glad you guys are going to work through this. Never ever pack up your things in a huff. Wait until you are grounded, out of anger and have made the decision to stay or go. I've stormed out with my junk more times than I can count in a fit of anger, only to suck my pride down and bring it back when I realized my decision was in haste. Spare yourself the embarassment and wait til your sure your not coming back before you pack that bag :P

Talk to him, be honest with your expectations or lack of them.. and let him do the same. and then each of you can decide if this relationship is making you happy or not.

[Ashlee T.]

Never ever pack up your things in a huff. Wait until you are grounded, out of anger and have made the decision to stay or go. I've stormed out with my junk more times than I can count in a fit of anger, only to suck my pride down and bring it back when I realized my decision was in haste

Words of wisdom for SURE!! lol. I've done this too. Sucks having to swallow your pride. And if you're like me, eventually you just leave your stuff in the bag because you know your hasty temper is going to be grabbing and leaving with it often. lol. I'm not like that anymore, but I have had to swallow my pride OFTEN and eventually learned my lesson.