[Ashlee T.]

If he's direct and you get mad, if he's passive aggressive or weak and doesn't say whats bothering him, you get mad... it doesn't seem like theres a way he can express himself that won't land him in the dog house?

I think you've misunderstood why I got mad. The whole situation was passive aggressive. There was nothing for him to "stand up for himself" over. What he did today was FAR from direct. I do want him to be direct. If you're upset, and I ask, tell me the truth. If you're not upset and I ask, tell me the truth. He gave me tidbits. He contradicted himself. Then he turned around and was entirely disrespectful to me. His tone, his attitude, and his words were totally uncalled for. That's not being direct, that's being rude. There's a huge difference.

[sourpuss]

Yeah, tell him you're ok with 'yes' and you're ok with 'no' but you're not ok with yes-no. He can't say he's fine, when he's not. If he's not fine and doesn't want to talk about it then he just needs to say he's tired and let it go.

I agree, you probably should have just said 'ok' at first and then let him bring it up this weekend. I think it's a combo of being tired and having something on his mind. It's probably nothing, you asked about it, he said he was fine. I think I'd let it go. Apologize for losing your temper and (if you want to see him this weekend) tell him you'd like to do something. (if you don't want to see him) apologize for losing your temper and tell him that it's probably best if you guys cool off for a day or two and suggest dinner on Sunday or something.

If it is infact passive aggressive behavior that he's using to confirm that you care about him, then this is the time to nip that in the bud and let him know that those tactics don't work. Not by getting mad and bringing it up. But by doing your own thing and letting him see that it doesn't affect you and it won't get the response he's looking for. Then if/when he does suck it up and decide to be straightforward, really be there and be calm. If he sees that you are responsive to this type of communication, he's more likely to take that approach in the future.

[Hopeless Dork]

There was nothing for him to "stand up for himself" over.

He said "don't tell me what to do" which means, he must have felt you were telling him what to do (even if you truly were not) I can understand being frustrated if you didn't feel like thats what you were doing.

But you are deciding for him that there was nothing that should have made him feel that way, when something must have made him feel that way, even if it was just him misunderstanding. It doesn't give him a right to be rude... but he was feeling like you were telling him what to do I assume, or that wouldn't have been what he thought to say?



** I know I am playing devils advocate here... but just trying to give you another way to look it **

[sourpuss]

BD, I do agree with HD a little bit. I think he's scared to communicate with you because you're so direct and he's not. Maybe try to just be a little softer. I can see his side too, I've been there many times and it's hard.

[KMonte85]

And I said "Come on, you know that almost every time you've said "I'm fine" you're not fine. You know you've said that many times when it wasn't so. Take responsibility for what you say, don't put it off on me every time you say something you don't mean" and he said "DON'T tell ME WHAT TO DO!!".

But looking at the context of WHY he said "don't tell me what to do!" Because BD asked him to own his feelings?

I can see how he can get frustrated easily, as he obviously has problems expressing how he feels. But then why does it have to be BD's fault? Why should she pay for it if she asks him to elaborate what he's feeling? Why should she pay for it when she just says "ok" and leaves it alone? That's a catch 22. Not fairplay.

I think the phone conversation definitely got deconstructive and should have been ended before the blowout. But I also think, BD, that you're feelings aren't confounded. I hope you two can hash it out without the emotions next time, but if he would have been upfront to begin with there wouldn't have been a problem. Maybe I just see things that way because I think you and I are of a very similar mindset. That sort of sideway, indirect, passive agressive stuff makes me just bristle. I don't get how it can be one partner's fault that the other partner is misunderstood when they are (sometimes purposefully) not being clear!

[sourpuss]

I'm going to go out on a limb and say that I think you should go a little easier on him. Coming from a person that shuts down when trying to communicate, I can say that I think it's probably really hard for him. Something that would be easy and to the point for you could be very frightening for him. Getting mad and telling him to be more direct is just going to make him clam up even more. I think this calls for a bit of patience and compassion. Maybe that will help him open up and feel more safe expressing how he feels.

I'm not saying anyone is right or wrong here, it just is what it is. I know exactly how he feels and I can totally see your side as well. But for those who can easily communicate, it's hard to wrap your brain around why it's so hard for others.

[Hopeless Dork]

I don't think its anyones fault. I don't think it does either side any good to blame, what does either side good is to listen to how each other feels. Whatever this talk was about has escalated to the even more important point how to even go about talking about things.

This is an opportunity for BD to tell him how she feels when he isn't direct... and a chance for him to come clean with why he is so seemingly terrified of upsetting her and reaching some kind of conclusion / agreement on a way to effectively communicate with each other.

[Ashlee T.]

I'm going to go out on a limb and say that I think you should go a little easier on him. Coming from a person that shuts down when trying to communicate, I can say that I think it's probably really hard for him. Something that would be easy and to the point for you could be very frightening for him. Getting mad and telling him to be more direct is just going to make him clam up even more. I think this calls for a bit of patience and compassion. Maybe that will help him open up and feel more safe expressing how he feels.

I get that you can identify with him and while I do respect that perspective as being different thn my own, I have to ask, so when do I have to stop being the one making all the personality accomodations? I got angry at him today for being rude and abrasive with me, AFTER he'd been indirect, vague, and hadn't communicated with me. His lack of communication is not new to me. But to be indirect,passive, not communicate, then be rude and ugly to me over it when I'm trying to figure out what's going on is a little beyond something I'm willing to be patient and compassionate about. Then wheres my compassion? Who's coddling my personality flaws? It HAS to be a two way street.

and a chance for him to come clean with why he is so seemingly terrified of upsetting her and reaching some kind of conclusion / agreement on a way to effectively communicate with each other.

If he's terrified of me, honestly, then he's terrified of anyone. I know, deep down in my heart, that I have been overwhelmingly patient with him. I can thank you all for a lot of that because alot of times I've vented on here which has kept me from venting towards him. We have talked many times in an unheated way about our personality differences, about things we need to do better on, etc. And there are areas in which I SEE an effort on his part to be better in. And I know for a fact there are many areas I've compromised. I lost my temper today. For the first time ever with him. i haven't responded to his contacts since then. He knows he crossed the line with me today. He knows I'll tolerate ALOT of things, but blatant disrespect is not one of them.

But looking at the context of WHY he said "don't tell me what to do!" Because BD asked him to own his feelings?

I can see how he can get frustrated easily, as he obviously has problems expressing how he feels. But then why does it have to be BD's fault? Why should she pay for it if she asks him to elaborate what he's feeling? Why should she pay for it when she just says "ok" and leaves it alone? That's a catch 22. Not fairplay.

Definitely not fair play. And I'm sure you can identify when in a case like that, it seems that no matter WHAT I say, it's not going to be the right thing.

[CHANDLERS WISH]

He says "I've just been doing alot of thinking about things. Planned to talk to you about it this weekend". Of course that leaves me hanging, especially considering i won't see him until tomorrow. I said "Like about what?" He says "everything". UGH!! GRRRRRR. So I say "can I have an example?" (I mean, why not, I should be able to know what to prepare myself for) and he says "like finances and stuff, I want my dog to have a backyard to play in" (he lives in an apt). And I said "I don't get it? Why would you put off talking to me about your finances, when they have nothing to do with me?" And he said "FORGET IT!".

Seems to me he tried to open up.. Let you know he intended to speak to you about it, stated it was "everything" but you wanted an example, so he went for the weakest one, but then you shot him down because that wasn't about "you as a couple"..

My take is this.. You asked if he was alright, one thing he's not alright about is his dog.. but because he said "everything and I plan to talk to you about it on the weekend", you decided that, his answer wasn't good enough because you want to know now, and only about the stuff regarding the pair of you. That wasn't your question, and you didn't support him. You should have said " Oh I see, yeah I get that, it must be tough, well we can talk about that and maybe how you can do that, and all the other things you want to talk about I'm sure there's a solution".

but wait until our time off this weekend to "discuss" it and refuse to tell me what the "other" stuff he's been thinking about is until one of our days to spend together doing something ENJOYABLE!

Now BD, I'm going to have to call you selfish there, sorry There is next week, the week after, the week after that for "enjoyable". Again, you asked a question, what's wrong, he wants to talk about it face to face, and here your thinking now of "no, tell me over the phone, I want to do something enjoyable when I see you, not talk to you". Why? Isn't it equal? Isn't it better to talk face to face? Didn't you ask the question? Why should he fear talking?

After the "FORGET IT!!", he text me about 10 minutes later and said "I haven't gotten good sleep this week. Sorry". I replied "That was totally uncalled for."

Have to say, it was called for, you weren't listening, being there for him, you were thinking of yourself, what you want to know, now, not later and how you want to spend the weekend, not what he wants.

Unusual for me to really home in there, sorry But, that's what I see.

We have talked many times in an unheated way about our personality differences, about things we need to do better on, etc. And there are areas in which I SEE an effort on his part to be better in

And yours? There is a personality difference, you want now, he wants tomorrow, but you need to make an effort to, to accept his ways of communication as well

CW

[Ashlee T.]

CW- I agree with you on most things. Most of the time I concede. Not this time. Because I know him, and of course I realize you all don't, and can only judge based on my rants. He's done this before. The whole "I plan to talk to you". This is not new. He's done it before, he works himself up for days over something, and then I get to hear about it when it's boiling at the rim. I've said "ok" many times before and waited for when, and what he had been planning to discuss all week. Then, on a day we both should be enjoying together (and I don't agree that wanting to spend an enjoyable day together is selfish. ) he drops some negative bombshell on me. I open myself up to him every single day for communication.

I have never done anything but support him 100% in everything he's done. I encourage him. If you were to ask him, he'd tell you I am the most positive and supportive person he knows. I was by his side through the HD scare, 100%, while I secretely melted down in my private time (and on here of course!) I stayed strong for him, sat by his side while he got his results, etc. When he decided he wanted to join the SWAT team, I have encouraged him, told him every time he brings it up that I think he needs to go for it, that he'll be awesome at it. When he talked a month ago about buying a home because he was tired of having a roomate and wants a yard for his dog, we discussed the pros and cons given his situation, and I supported him 100%. Why would I have said the same thing today that I said a month ago? Not only have I voiced my understanding of his situation MORE than once, but I too was in that same situation up until November, dog+apartment. So to say that today, I didn't support him, is not really fair. I do what someone in a relationship should do, I support him so long as he's not bringing negativity int my life. But I'm not going to be yanked around by him and call it "ok" just because underneath all the ugliness is some attempt to speak to me. To say that I only wanted to hear about things involving us, That's not true. When I asked him if something was bothering him, I had no incling it had anything to do with me because I haven't even seen him since Tuesday, no bad conversations, etc. If nothing was wrong, why didn't he just say so? If the only thing wrong was that he was tired and had worked alot of OT this week, why didn't he just say that?

No, I didn't ask him to reveal all to me over the phone. Sure it's better to talk face to face. I never disputed that. After he said he'd been doing alot of thinking and planned to talk to me about it this weekend, I just wanted to know that it wasn't something bad, something for me to dread (like it normally is when he does this), something about us (like it normally is). So no, I didn't want to hear about US. I was confused by his responses, the finances/dog thing had just been "discussed" over dinner a month ago. I was confused as to how that related to him acting down in the dumps all week which is what I had asked him about. That's why I called him on my lunch break.

It's selfish for me to want to have a good weekend with him? It's wrong for me to be confused when I think everythings A ok this week and he's acting down in the dumps but telling me NOTHING all week?

Are there areas I see myself making an effort in? Every single day I make efforts that I've never had to before in a relationsip. I am not a selfish person. I spoke with my mom about this earlier who always plays the devils advocate in almost any situation in my life, but she didn't this time. She was married to a passive-aggressive man for 30+ years. It was FAR from easy. It was constant coddling, constant tiptoe'ing around his "feelings". Well what about hers? Because no matter what HE did, it ALWAYS got thrown back on her. If he was depressed, she made him that way. If he drank, she drove him to it. If he was silent, it was because he was afraid to speak and couldn't deal with conflict. If he was upset, it was because of something she had done 3 years ago. And on and on and on and on. And that's exactly how I feel here.

I feel like it's one sided. It's like it was when I was a child, my brother was the needy one so if he made a C onreport card it was celebration! Oh GOOD BOY!!! But I was not needy and when I brought home the A, it was expected. They were proud of me, sure but I was the responsible one, they expected me to do right. That's how I feel here. I feel like he's Mr Passive so he deserves a reward because he made an attempt to plan a discussion with his girlfriend after a week of acting down in the dumps and distant. But I accomodate his passivity on a daily basis, am a good girlfriend to him, have modified even the way in which I speak in order to accomodate his sensitivity, yet I'm selfish and unsupporting. And truly, I feel like no matter what I say, no matter what I do it's going to be the wrong thing.

Tonight, I'm very hurt. I may not be passive, I may be direct and upfront about my feelings but I'm never mean to anyone. Nevertheless, I do know when someone has been unfair and mean to me.