[LanaBear]

Can I ask a few simple questions? Do the pros of this relationship outweigh the cons? I went back through and reread some of your older threads. Where are the positives in this relationship? What do you, as a woman, as a person, get out of this relationship?

[Ashlee T.]

Do the pros of this relationship outweigh the cons?

All along I've felt that they did, else I wouldn't still be in it. Right now, I'm not so sure. I'm confused and I feel very hurt. It REALLY stinks to still feel SO misunderstood after trying so hard to be understood.

Where are the positives in this relationship?

Generally(even though he wasn't today) he's a very kind man. He shows interest in making me happy and I do the same. We laugh alot most of the time when we spend time together and we generally really enjoy the things we do together. We use to have good sexual chemistry, though we're dealing with some issues there now too but I believe that we can work through those issues...or at least I think we're both trying. We share a common love for our pets, they are totally like our children. I feel safe when I'm out with him, like he'd totally protect me if someone tried to harm me. He considers me very positive and supporting to him in his life. I'm the first person he comes to when something happens at work, or if someone in his family hurts his feelings, or when he's excited about something. I share with him thing in my life, passions I have, things I'm excited about (whether he seems interested or not).

I've never denied there were good things about our relationship. I just had no reason to "vent" or seek advice about those things here. There are good things, else I wouldn't still be with him. I have just kept hoping that with some hard work we could work through some of the "cons". Today, I guess I've lost a little faith in that.

[CHANDLERS WISH]

pfttttttt

He is passive, you've said that.

You can't be confined, restricted.

Your past relationship you didn't feel loved enough.

You have different personalities.

You look forward (as women do) to the days your going to spend together, seeing him, you don't want to talk shop on those occasions. Ever.

You speak your mind always.

You believe that actions should speak volumes and labels don't count.

You believe that a person should communicate exactly on the same page as you, at that time.

You get hurt easily.

You were always the responsible one, the one who was expected to be perfect.

You want to feel love... and you want to express that when you see him, not talk about things and you want to feel that it's deep love, not sexual.

You don't want to get married, but in the back of your mind, your not sure about that, as you've talked about future and people in it that don't have an ailment that may cause a problem.. Your confused I believe in that part of you life as to what you really want.


None of that is wrong.. None of that is bad. But there are two personalities here, both have to compromise to meet each other.. At the moment, you have one personality and he has another and your not meeting in the middle.

[Hopeless Dork]

I've never denied there were good things about our relationship. I just had no reason to "vent" or seek advice about those things here. There are good things, else I wouldn't still be with him. I have just kept hoping that with some hard work we could work through some of the "cons". Today, I guess I've lost a little faith in that.

I think if you guys don't communicate about how you can communicate with each other safely, respecfully... the argument today could be very damaging for both of you.

He spoke up, asked you not to tell him what to do... and for that he gets the silent treatment and likely feels like the relationship may end because of it.

If he wasn't terrified of telling you what he truly feels or standing up for himself when he feels like you are telling him he's wrong for something before that argument... he likely will be from now on.

And if you feel like because he didn't have a reason to feel like you were telling him what to do, and him telling you so in an abrasive way is cause to ignore his attempts to appolgise for that ... theres a good chance you are not going to be interested in salavaging things anyway?!

I understand that you only come here to vent and not to mention the positive things about this man... but in everything you have complained and vented about his man... in reading between the lines of what you are upset about .. to me, reveals a man that is head over heels into you, desperate to try to make you happy, is afraid of losing you and scared of making you mad.

I am NOT saying you are a bully or mean to him, or any of that... and I am not saying he is the good guy. I am just saying it seems like he can't do anything right.

You said he's never spoken to you like he did today with the rudeness, one sentence said in hurt and frustration lead to a don't you dare talk to me that way reaction and then silence... cut off lines of communication.

That is super scary for a person in a relationship to feel like they can't express angst over something without fear of losing you, probably what has made it so hes been so passive aggressive in the past, fearing if he came on out and said something he'd be in the dog house. So he hints, he throws silent tantrums hoping you'll notice he's upset and prod him because maybe he just don't know how to commuincate with you in a way that will please you?

[WildChild]

This is an Aloof drama on his part, they make you work to get information and it is a good way of drawing your attention and energy. You seem to be working from an Interogator drama, asking questions, insisting on answers, now. I think gave your own answer - you grew up with this pattern.

Absolutely you should not even consider him moving in with you at this time, if that is where he is going. At this point you don't know. You are not the solution to his concerns over his dog or a desire to own a house. I think you should back off a bit and lighten it up. You aren't marrying him, if he wants to stew, let him. Be open to talking and hearing what he is thinking but don't push. Don't feed his drama with yours. Let go of the need to know. If the relationship deepens and matures, great. If it distances and eventually disolves, time to move on. Let him know you are there for him but stand there tapping your foot waiting. Plan something fun, if he wants to join in, great. If he shows up preoccupied and distant, ask if he wants to share something, if he doesn't and doesn't lighten up, then if need be shorten his participation and do something you enjoy with other freinds or on your own. You can't make him be what he isn't. Your experience with him waiting so long to tell of the health scare and then fact that he waited so many years to find out for his own future indicates he is an avoider.

People come into our lives for a reason. You may have come into his to get to learn that this disease isn't in his future. What lesson has he brought you? It may be time to move on to other lessons, other teachers, for each of you. This doesn't sound like you have a real burning passion for each other. Where do you see this going?

[Hopeless Dork]

People come into our lives for a reason. You may have come into his to get to learn that this disease isn't in his future. What lesson has he brought you? It may be time to move on to other lessons, other teachers, for each of you. This doesn't sound like you have a real burning passion for each other. Where do you see this going?

That is such a brilliant way to look at life in general, but particularly romantic relationships. I've had friends that didn't want to break up with someone because they are afraid if they did it would mean they have 'wasted their time' being with them for a year or so... so they will put up with so much and pull their hair out in frustration because they don't want to feel like it was all for nothing.

But nothing is for nothing, I've always believed that. I think every day that you are passing with smiles and laughter and random acts that lead to pleasure from a fine dinner to a romp in the hay... are not in vain.

But the life lesson perspective is ... beautiful. Like "slumdog millionaire" made a point of ... all the experiences we have, bad or good... shape who we are, what we know, how we feel. They all move us forward in preparation of our future.

For everything else you said, I do agree that it seems to be a case of a missed connection, and when that is occuring, when chemistry is out of sinc, one feeling - one not...fleeting passion etc its an uphill battle to finding happiness.

Its sort of the glue that holds things together, being able to see past someones flaws to their strengths...without the drive and dedication to make it work, all the little things to the big things stick out like big red flags and feel insurmountable where they otherwise wouldn't feel that way.

[Ashlee T.]

CW - Ok ok I agree on THAT post. (well most of it)

HD - Neh...I had enough yesterday at lunch. I had to go back to work, I had to function, and spending any more time battling on the phone with him was not a good option for me. Nor was responding to his texts. I had to go on with my day. I was so upset over the first phone call my neck was broken out in hives, my hands were shaking, and I couldn't eat. I can't be that way at work, I have to pull it together. When he text me last evening, I responded, told him that I felt overloaded for the day, needed a break from the fighting, and would talk to him tomorrow (today).

I want us to be able to understand the way the other communicates. I don't expect (CW!!) that he should communicate exactly like me, but I do expect some effort to meet n the middle there. I don't consider him talking to me as him meeting in the middle. Without communication there is NO relaitonship. I make an effort, I keep my trap shut alot of times when I don't want to, I say "ok" when I know better, I smile and move on a lot of times when normally I wouldn't because I know he doesn't handle confrontation well. So I know I try in that aspect. I will hold firm to the fact that I do not believe his passiveness, lack of communication and such has anything to do with our specific relationship, or anything I've done or haven't done. He's been like this almost from the instant we started a relationship. Yesterday was the first time I've ever cut him off like that. Why? Becauase I won't be talked down to like he was, and I'm confident that if you could have heard the conversation, his tone, the way in which he was talking to me, and the things I was saying to try to smooth things over, you'd agree. Most of the time, we have a "discussion" over whatever it is he wants to discuss, it lasts for hours, it always turns into being about what he says its NOT going to be about (us/me), it ends, I smile, move on and secretely I'm totally 100% drained. Wouldn't you dread that? I feel like almost anyone would begin to dread something like that.

WC - I'm not sure he really WANTS to move in with me. I mean, he's never said that. And truthfully, unfortunately I don't know how he truly feels about ALOT of things. Because one minute he says he feels one way, and the next he says he feels another. When we first started dating and we would both joke about marriage and we both would say marriage wasn't a goal of ours, he totally agreed telling me he wasn't sure he ever wanted to get married. I thought "HMmm..finally...someone with more substance, someone that is not 100% focused on marriage". But then literally less than a mth down the road, I made a crack at marriage (a joke or something against marriage), and he got upset. So, alot of times I'm just not quite sure what I'm going to be dealing with. And he takes no ownership of what he says. He just says things, and then down the road if it doesn't suit his situation he'll say "I don't know why I said that." That is something that happens ALL the time. So what part do I listen to, do I believe, do I take to heart...

Part of the reason I stay, thinking we can grow through alot of our issues together is because I am his first serious relationship as an adult. And when I had my first serious relationship, I was the passive one, I was the one who had no identity outside of my Bf's life, his family, his hobbies, his friends, his church. I brooded (is that a word!?) about things, sometimes for weeks, and then one day would find something to get upset about so that then I could bring ALLLLLL that stuff up and bombard him all at once. It makes me cringe thinking of how I did that and how miserable that had to make my partner at the time. On my part, that was immaturity, lack of experience, lack of self confidence. And even though I was 18 then, and my bf now is 27.....I tell myself that maybe this is a similar experience for him being his first relationship and all.

I definitely agree nothing happens for nothing. I would miss him very much from my life. I just want the drama to stop. I feel like it's always something with him. (Very much the way my ex prob felt with me. Karma I guess :\ ) I feel like we're both very good people, at very different points in our life. While in some ways he's much more mature than I was at 18....in many ways I see so much of who I was then in him.

[Hopeless Dork]

I was really happy to read the words you just said. Being able to look at things, and see things from what he may be feeling, going through.. is the first step toward understanding. He, of course, will have to do the same.

You can remember behaving the way you did with your past relationship, and see those same things in him... maybe that insight might help you to figure out how to get him to meet you in the middle.

If you felt it was better to stop talking yesterday, felt it wouldn't move you guys forward positively than that is a good thing. I just have an aversion to punishments in relationships... the silent treatment, cutting off sex, acting out, etc... things done in anger as if to exhibit control... like say something I don't like and you don't get to talk to me for a few days... etc.

Punishment for communicating an emotion, closes up the lines of communication, fear doesn't move people forward and I had to learn that in my own relationship.

Reading what you just said though I can see it wasn't done in punishment, but just done to cool off.

I've overreacted in the heat of the moment and said somethings that are entirely irrational and irrelevent... but it was usually because something else was bothering me that I didn't know how to express. My boyfriend could have just shut down on me and said... okay you're talking stupid I wont have this discussion right now. Learn how to act etc... and leave me to stew and send messages that go ignored -- but he's never done that.

He lets me keep on with my irrelevent points until I get to the relevent ones. I do tend to beat around the bush sometimes, so in that way I can relate to your boyfriends passive aggressive communicative techniques. No, I don't think you caused it, its a part of a persons character that can stem all the way back from childhood when saying what you want to say was taken badly so you struggle to find a way to get something off your chest.

[Ashlee T.]

We talked (in person...hardy har) for a couple hours yesterday. It was long and tiring....but I know I said things that needed to be said, and I think he feels the same. We basically talked about everything. Future, dream, passions, follower/leader, and most importantly, COMMUNICATION.

I explained to him my reasons for not placing marriage as a goal in my life. I had explained before, but I did so in a different way this time. In such a way, I was able to incorporate the whole passions/dreams stuff too. Basically, I have never been able to wrap my mind around just getting to a certain age, getting married, having babies, and growing old. I want to be with someone that INSPIRES me, that I inspire, someone I can do great things with, go great places, help people that need it, and make memories that will last a lifetime. I want to be with someone that feels compassion and empathy for others, not just those in his immediate circle, and most certainly not only after he's pushed to do so. And if I have this person, and he has me......then maybe we'll want to foster babies that need us, maybe we'll want to adopt, MAYBE we won't follow the traditional path. And maybe we will. But I want to know that I'm with someone that can join into that kind of life with me. Someone that's full of passion, for love, for life, for people, for happiness. I told him, it seems the "norm" that most people don't take the lead and jump in and make a difference and be a part of a cause bigger than themselves and their every day lives. And while that may be the norm, that is not what I want in a partner.

He talked about his life growing up in the city, how it's very different from here. We agreed that because of how we grew up, we have appreciates for very different things. His life was city life, fast paced, always social, never alone, rarely home etc. Mine was country life, playing outside,building things out of mud, listening to birds, finding things to do even if I had no one around me, staying at home. He mentioned people here are "homebodies". I always felt his constant desire to be out and about and social was a needy trait. Now I realize that while part of it may be that, part of it is his upbringing. I told him I could never see myself being happy with someone who couldn't just enjoy being home, that wouldn't enjoy a house out in the woods without people constantly around, that NEVER said no to an invitation, that always felt the need to be gone. And I expressed my doubt that he would ever truly be happy living the kind of slower paced country life that I love.

When I told him my dreams, I saw his eyes getting a little watery. He admires me, my desire to make a difference, my compassion for people I don't even know. He thinks I'm an amazing and unique person. And I think that at that moment (or at least I hope) he realized that those are the things I want to see in my MAN.

We talked about the bedroom. I told him I need more than him just lying there, waiting for me to tell him exactly what to do. I need him to be the leader in the bedroom sometimes as well.

He told me I'm so independent sometimes that he doesn't feel like I want his help. I told him I was certain he felt that way, as most guys that date me do. I gave him many examples of ways in which I let him help me, that I accept his help graciously. But I also xplained that when my father died, my mom hadn't pumped her own gas in 30+ years, and I had never. That we struggled because there were so many ways in which we were not self sufficient. And that I never want to be so dependant upon someone that I can't do things on my own. When something breaks, I'm tickled pink for him to fix it, but i want him to show me how.

Communication. I told him I couldn't do it on my own, and that we need to accept the fact that if we CANNOT meet in the middle, we CANNOT have a relationship. This includes when I say something (say it's on text), and he misperceives what I intended. In that instance, he should give me the benefit of the doubt, then talk to me about it to clarify rather than instantly jumping to the negative side and insisting that I meant something ill (when I don't) and cutting me off. (which is a punishment to me). Communication in the instance that I explain to him that I don't need to be pursued for sex or treated as a sexual object every time we are around each other and show affection. The way he responeded to that (last week or whenever it was we discussed it) was to just not touch me AT ALL. (Again, punishment to me for communicating). I communicated to him, he chose to punish me silently rather than communicate to me. That will never render positive results.

So this is getting incredibly long, but to wrap it up, we talked ALOT. I know that I laid myself out on the table and I'll know now that if I still am not getting what I need in the relationship, it's not because I don't care deeply for him, orthat he doesn't care deeply for me, it's just that we're so different we just can't make it work. I'll know I gave it my all. And I think this has helped me to even identify more what I actually DO want out of life and that I'm not willing to sacrifice those things just to have someone.

I think I understand him more, and I think he understands me more. And if no other good comes from this, that is definitely something.

[LanaBear]

Wow, that seems as if it was a pretty deep discussion. Hopefully, it ends up being a positive and productive boost to your relationship.

It sounds as if you booth did a lot of talking and a lot of listening.

And I think after this, your conclusion is just right... If after all that was said, if you are not getting what you need out of it, it just isn't meant to work. It does sound like he was an active participant in it, so that is good! Hopefully a start.