[Ashlee T.]

Your thoughts are appreciated as always. Everyone here has been wonderful listening to my issues in this relationship whether I'm seeking advice or sometimes just want to vent. I'm always open for suggestions, and I know it's definitely a hard thing to advise someone on given the situation. It's a tough situation for me, and for him too I'm sure. We'll learn to deal with it one way or another, whether together, or apart and if apart, I do agree that people are put into our lives for a reason.

[CHANDLERS WISH]

Definitely agree on the full deck thing. That's why I wanted him to get tested, so that he could actually live his life without that hanging over his head. I know he's happier now, lighter hearted, not AS negative etc.

Is it enough? That's what I struggle with. It's not that I'm seeking this perfect emaculate partner. Its just that there's alot going on in my life right now, I have a lot of goals for myself, and relationship drama takes away from that.

BD we love you but as you say " you are only just venting" so does that mean you don't want insight?

Are you saying that you felt like you were the shining knight? In this relationship, not wanting to be with him, as he's not your "type" but wanting to show him the way?

I think you are trying to find that perfect partner you have boxes and they have to fit into those. I think your focused on self and where you want to go and "only" those that can fit it, will survive it.

I have answered alot of your posts/threads and I think you are focused on what you want and if the other person is "not there" it is not what you want, rather, you respect they are growing but it's not good enough.

You expect..

And you have your visions.

You have to understand that in working together becomes success, are you not willing to work ? You are in work but it seems that relationships there is a very big expectation.

And, if we see that, we are told " I am venting"...

Kill me later but that's what I see and I know I am not the only one.

Take gambles, you may know what you want but if someone can see that? Then you are a leader and they can follow. Not everyone will be a leader like you.

Just my take at like 2o years older than you.

CW

[Ashlee T.]

Are you saying that you felt like you were the shining knight? In this relationship, not wanting to be with him, as he's not your "type" but wanting to show him the way?

Not in the least. I am no ones shining knight. My thoughts are that each relationship you go through is what you needed at that time, to put you where you need to be. What he has shown me, is that someone CAN think I'm wonderful just the way I am. And what I've shown him is strengh and courage. Both of us needed those things when we met each other. I did encourage him to get tested, for HIM, for his life, for his future. He needed that.

You have to understand that in working together becomes success, are you not willing to work ?

I have worked my tail off in this relationship for the past year. So has he. So I'm really not sure what you're asking me.

You expect..

What I expect is to be happy and to know that the other person is truly happy with me. I don't expect perfection as I think you believe.......I don't even know what perfection is.

And when I say I'm venting, it's because I am. It's because you all always offer insight and advice, and I always want it and welcome it......but I have vented and sought insight many times on here about this relationship (as many have about their own) and I don't want anyone to feel like I'm expecting you all to solve this for me. I'm not. It's kind of like if you called a friend to vent and they said "I don't want to hear it anymore I've given you all the advice I know to." But did they stop to think that maybe while you totally welcome any advice and insight they have to offer, you really just needed to relieve the pressure weighing on your chest...and you certainly didn't mean to frustrate them or make them think badly of you.

Kill me later but that's what I see and I know I am not the only one.

No hard feelings. It is hard enough to live in an area where people constantly settle for unhappiness because we're taught it's what we're supposed to do, "oh, well, love requires work", then they spend their lives with that person longing for this happiness that is truly not even achievable with that person because they're so wrong for each other. Yes, I'm different. I have told myself I cannot be one of those people. And if that means I'm someone with high expectations, then yes I am. It's frustrating enough to be going through this, to want so badly for something to work, to care so much for someone and both know you're not compatible, it's all frustrating enough..........the last thing I need/want is to vent those feelings only to be purely misunderstood and judged as some selfish perfectionist with a stick up her rear that is unwilling to work and unwilling to bend. So, for what it's worth, no more "venting" for me.

[pretzel]

Not in the least. I am no ones shining knight. My thoughts are that each relationship you go through is what you needed at that time, to put you where you need to be. What he has shown me, is that someone CAN think I'm wonderful just the way I am. And what I've shown him is strengh and courage. Both of us needed those things when we met each other. I did encourage him to get tested, for HIM, for his life, for his future. He needed that.

What I expect is to be happy and to know that the other person is truly happy with me. I don't expect perfection as I think you believe.......I don't even know what perfection is.

No hard feelings. It is hard enough to live in an area where people constantly settle for unhappiness because we're taught it's what we're supposed to do, "oh, well, love requires work", then they spend their lives with that person longing for this happiness that is truly not even achievable with that person because they're so wrong for each other. Yes, I'm different. I have told myself I cannot be one of those people. And if that means I'm someone with high expectations, then yes I am. It's frustrating enough to be going through this, to want so badly for something to work, to care so much for someone and both know you're not compatible, it's all frustrating enough..........the last thing I need/want is to vent those feelings only to be purely misunderstood and judged as some selfish perfectionist with a stick up her rear that is unwilling to work and unwilling to bend. So, for what it's worth, no more "venting" for me.

BD, I read this last paragraph first then reread the first paragraph. I'm not sure where this took me but it seemed to me that understanding your dilema and problem that you've put in the last paragraph then look at the reasoning behind your first paragraph in a sense gave me a feeling that I think you know what you feel is best for you, but that actually doing it is going to something completely different and harder.

[WildChild]

BD you are in a similar situation to many of us, in that you care, you want what is best for both of you and you are struggling with how to get what will bring you happiness without hurting another. We each have different variations of this, some are dealing with it within a marriage, others - like myself- have strong and deep feelings for someone who just can express or reciprocate. Others, such as yourself, I think, haven't had a feeling of passion or deep connection but still care and had hoped to see the feelings develop?

I think you have a valid point, too many of us, too often, just settle and then struggle in pain with the lack. We are torn between what we think "should" be and what is, what we truly want and need and what we feel we can realistically have. We have been made to feel that relationships between women and men must always hold difficulty and strife. Which is nonsense. Generations of damaging views that encompass, negative attitudes toward sex, gender negativity, women subservient to men, societally and legally enforced dependency and other similar ideas have contaminated relationships and expectations.

Logically we can know what we 'should' do; lovingly let go and create the life we want then find someone who's life goals and pleasures fit with our own, to share it. We get caught up in what should be temporary plwasure with someone and sidetracked from our vision and the life we want and end up living a life neither really wanted or wants. We get caught in self produced deadlines, have a child by a certain age, own a house, have a new dinette.

We shared before, the belief that people come into our lives for a reason and I think I suggested before that your purpose in coming into each others lives may have been served. My take on this, with the limited picture I have, is that it is time to lovingly let go.

Venting is fine my dear, but maybe better taken if you start off saying - Hey I'm venting!

[CHANDLERS WISH]

My thoughts are that each relationship you go through is what you needed at that time, to put you where you need to be.

I have stated that myself many a time on this Forum. Everything in life is about learning. Each person that you engage a relationship with/friendship with, is there for a reason, to help you grow and understand exactly what "main" things you want out of life and don't want/accept out of life, so you can find someone within that life and be happy, not settle. I get that.

I have worked my tail off in this relationship for the past year. So has he. So I'm really not sure what you're asking me.

There underlies the problem.. In your belief, you believe you work to "change" if you will, the things that are not what either of you like about each other, work... and in that, as you get to a point of time you feel, see, that it's not the right one for you, both have spent the whole time working to make it a good union, alas not to be.

Is it fair to say therefore, that this becomes a pattern? The next partner, you see posibilities and so you work towards that relationship but it still doesn't quite fit, click?

Don't get me wrong, I am NOT saying you enter a relationship and both try to change each other, but you definately refuse to settle and good for you, so you work towards trying to see if this can lead to that alter, one day, in the back of your mind you don't believe it exists based on what you said below...

What if...... you went for "gut feeling" from the first date or three. What if..... you focused then on core values, beliefs, about life, about love?

I say this because, I went down the same road as you, as many of us have, as WC stated, we are all the same. Until, one day, I "knew" from the life lessons, just like your describing, what I wanted, what I believed in, who I was, where I was heading and I went on countless dates, 3 years, no relationships, purely and only purely going by "gut" and "core values/beliefs" of compatibitlity in important areas of life, values of life, beliefs of what constitutes a relationship and 3 years on, I met this amazing person that is exactly on my level finally. If there is a problem, I can talk. If there is a mis-understanding, we can solve it, there is no effort, no work in this relationship, we understand the values, beliefs and so we simply automatically, ensure we speak, text, say good morning, say I love you, hold each other for no reason, share our day, and share our thoughts, nothing is wrong to say or to do, because we can talk and laugh and cry and be...

Point being, I didn't go through as (I DID), for years, as you are, but I didn't go through the relationship, to see.. I went for the first few dates, and discussed my beliefs, values and then listened, watched and decided from there... I believe it works, as long as you know who you are and what you really want out of life.

What I expect is to be happy and to know that the other person is truly happy with me. I don't expect perfection as I think you believe..

No, I don't think you want perfection.. Rather, frustration when you've got it to a point, but it can't go beyond that point. But, can it? Time is the essense if the values are there and if both people, believe and want and love.

It is hard enough to live in an area where people constantly settle for unhappiness because we're taught it's what we're supposed to do, "oh, well, love requires work", then they spend their lives with that person longing for this happiness that is truly not even achievable with that person because they're so wrong for each other. Yes, I'm different. I have told myself I cannot be one of those people.

In life, in all parts of the world, people settle. Our parents settled, their parents. People live in loveless marriages because the person is their "friend" they believe in marriage so they won't do anything about it, or their family wouldn't hear of divorce and so they go through life un-happy. People, have a genuine "fear" of starting again. People, want so much to "believe" they can change someone. All will say, he/she was like this from the beginning. Most, will hope for change.

Yes love does require work. But a different type. It requires ensuring you don't turn to "friendship" only, once you've done that, it's very hard to get the love back. It requires constant communication so that you both are happy in yourselves, in understanding, it involves, constant connection, because that's the bond, it involves being honest so there is trust. That should be the only "work" it involves.

As, I said, people settled. As you say, people then expect they have to work to make it happen. It was chemistry to start with, or age, so they married, or "oh well I won't find better" so they go through life un-happy and try.

I say, find the person who is on the same page as you... then you can "work together to become one" still with your own identity and independence, as you both feel safe. that's a different type of work.

It's frustrating enough to be going through this, to want so badly for something to work, to care so much for someone and both know you're not compatible, it's all frustrating enough.

It's the way it is. If you go back to the beginning 1 year ago, and ask yourself, was this a compatible match to start with? It would be no. But, yes you've both found strength in things that otherwise, you wouldn't have, had you had not met, it's always sad to move on..

Be clear of whom you are and what you want out of life, and I can't stress the core values/beliefs as being the key ingredient to a better opportunity of success.

No one is perfect but if they are in place you can always cross the bridge.

It's kind of like if you called a friend to vent and they said "I don't want to hear it anymore I've given you all the advice I know to." But did they stop to think that maybe while you totally welcome any advice and insight they have to offer, you really just needed to relieve the pressure weighing on your chest...and you certainly didn't mean to frustrate them or make them think badly of you.

So this is why you call it venting. I understand exactly where you are coming from in that regard. Communication has taught that in the above situation, you start with stating, "whilst I appreciate and want what ever wisdom or advice you have to offer, understand, I also just want someone to listen to me, I need to vent"... Or.... " I'm really just needing an ear at the moment, I need to vent"..

Problem with people, they will discect, because they care, so they will try to find the solution not realising that all the person wants is to be heard, to get it off their chest, to vent and be listened to Try one of those sayings when you want to talk to someone, just to talk, not to hear, or to gain some thoughts but perdominately listen, it does work as then the person has the understanding of what you needs are.

There is nothing wrong with venting, but you have to get out exactly what you are after, be it here or in person...

Try the above

Otherwise, people including me, will be trying hard to work out "how" to guide you

We don't have a bad bone in our body you know that.. We're just trying to "see" where your going and what we can offer to help you get there..

CW

[Ashlee T.]

CW - Yes, I somehow believe that as with everything else in life, I will have to work for love. Makes it hard for me to give up on someone/something, because I always think "well maybe if I work harder".

I always want your alls advice and input. I was explaining the "venting" thing because you brought it up in your post that I always say "I'm just venting". Truly, if I didn't want your alls insight, opinions, encouragement, etc I would just write it in my journal. Sometimes when I say "I'm just venting", it's also to let you all know that while I may be ranting and saying all sorts of things that would be terribly hurtful to my BF, they are things I'm ranting to you all about but wouldn't say to him. Sometimes when I rant about something, someone will say "well I'm sure that made him feel..." and I just try to reiterate that just because i'm venting it to you guys, doesn't mean I've said anything to him about it.

Your first post yesterday made me feel misunderstood and misjudged. Thank you for responding and clarifying because I felt much better after reading your response.

[kygirl]

BD,

I totally get where you are coming from (the settling thing, especially being from the same area and people freaking out after 25 wondering if you're "ever" going to get married). It's hard for all of us to judge what you should or shouldn't do. People tend to only give a portion, and that is about all that is possibly, especially to those of us who do not know every detail of your life and what goes on. That being said, however, venting or not , I think even though relationships require work and will never be perfect, people change because they *want* to change. Not because you need them to, or that they should. I do agree with WC that it might be time to start seeing what life would be like if you moved on. I know you both care about each other, but you know as well as I do, that just caring about someone is far from enough to be truly happy.

If you have a big heart, it's easy to care and get attached and want the best and to believe the best, etc but there does come a time when you have to say "you know, I love you/care about you, but I am not sure I can be content in this relationship." Sometimes *that* is the most loving thing to do, even if it stings at first.

[Hopeless Dork]

From everything you've said about this man, BD it sounds like he'd make some lady out there very very happy, 1 piece short on the pvc pipe and all. It just doesn't sound like that person is you. And I think you're personality type, relationship needs would be of great comfort to some man out there, that isn't too affectionate, doesn't require as much of your time. However the way life works is usually that when you find that man that is everything you wish this guy was, you'll find yourself wishing he'd be more like the other.

But if your idea of intimacy is so greatly different from your boyfriend it might just be that you two are not well suited for each other. Its not that he has somethign wrong that needs fixing... its not that you do either. Different needs. Like I said his relationship style would make many women happy, and your relationship style would be more than enough for many men.

But it almost sounds as if you are settling with this guy, like you consider him beneath your bar, or level. I am sorry if this comes off as offensive its not meant to I assure you, just expressing what it sounds like to me.... and that is it seems like you come across like you are doing him a favor by being with him. And it just doesn't seem like a relationship has much room to grow when one doesn't feel an equal investment in it.

[CHANDLERS WISH]

I think even though relationships require work and will never be perfect, people change because they *want* to change

Which isn't work, it's a desire to do, as someone deems it important for you "both" and the other sees that and wants to.

There are always going to be "what if I had", but people are right, it takes two or it doesn't work.

Your no orphan. What's hard to do is to leave your "friend" but when you get to this stage, I don't like this, I don't accept that, he doesn't this, I've talked and talked, I've tried and tried, there are somethings changed but then there's this, and then I am not sure about that, you come to a point where in reality your questioning, "was/is this a match?"

The good things you see, make you stay, but the things your not comfortable with, non-compatible with, if they are strong, very strongly one sided, can't change they never will.

You've been told it's work.

You've probably been told, no one is perfect.

You've probably been led to believe if you work hard, it will work.

Not, if, two people are two totally "different" personalities, thereby have different core values, beliefs of where they are going in life and what life is all about.

Sorry I made you feel mis-understood, more homing in on why your feeling this way.

He's a good friend that you've worked to change, that he has somewhat worked to change, but your both on completely different levels, pages, personalities, beliefs....

Your NOT a failure, when something doesn't work out.

I don't believe in boxes, you know, I want this, that, but I do believe in, this is who I am, this is what I believe in, this is where I am heading in life, this is my pet hate, and in that, he must accept who I am, undertand and accept what I believe in, like where I am heading, agree with my pet hate and the rest we can communicate and compromise over.

Let's say you need to be held, when emotions come to play but that person has no such emotions and can't do that ever... That would be "not on the same page" it's something that you really need, in life, you can't go through your life without knowing that comfort won't ever be there. Or, you personally don't like liers, yet that person is "ok" and believes that white lies are fine, then again, that person will never be on the same page as there will never be trust. That's core beliefs. That's all a person has to consider, establish, when meeting someone to know if you can "work" on the little things. Those things are major are they not?

I don't think therefore you two are on that same page And, If our parents and their parents had the chance to sit back and work out their core beliefs and had the opportunity to take their time and find what they wanted in life, some of them would be so much happier, than being in a marriage that they felt they had to work for, and un-happy mostly, falling out of love because they weren't compatible.

You, we have the chance because you, we can get married at any age, more than once, we have the chance to establish being happy..

So go be happy BD