[holetoledo]

I admit that I do not understand most of what goes on in my boyfriend's head. All I know is that this relationship has been entirely different from what I thought I had with others. Well -- other. Perhaps my only true relationship was with Jared, and that lasted for about three months. To be honest, though I did like him, I mostly dated him because I wanted to see how being in a relationship was like. I was a junior in high school and really had no other experience with long term relationships (meanwhile, my boyfriend's first relationship was when he was twelve and it lasted two years).

I can't say exactly where my ideas of intimate relationships have stemmed from. All I knew was what I remembered from fairy tales, books, and movies. Yes, I was naive. Possibly still am. I didn't know I could have different principles concerning relationships until I started dating Jimmy. At first I was aghast that he would go against everything I knew: celebrating anniversaries, routinely showing -- minimal -- public displays of affection, celebrating Valentine's Day, buying or making gifts.

Nope. Doesn't believe in anniversaries because the temporal aspect of it is meaningless to him, doesn't believe in the importance or hype of celebrating birthdays (at least his own), doesn't put physical affection on a pedestal. I thought that maybe he's being unfair in not participating in these things with me, and perhaps he is, but he's him and what he is is unchangeable, at least in these respects.

But that doesn't mean he's deprived me of anything, which makes me wonder why I feel it's unfair that he doesn't participate in at least some of these normal relationship "rituals". Maybe it's because it's what I've come to expect because that's what I was shown. And I have a hard time breaking away from expecting what I was shown, which makes it difficult for both he and I respectively. He sees an intimate relationship where two individuals still manage to be independent.

I often see intimate relationships as utterly romanticized. It's disgusting to me now. The man's ideals are completely obliterated, the "woman's" heavily highlighted. The woman is the recipient of the man's utmost attention and blind devotion. The man is strong mentally and physically, but still manages to be perfectly emotional. The man has no goals but to monogamously remain with his woman and often sweeps her off her feet.

Disgusting.

What to do? I've been brainwashed.

[cocoa]

You sound so much like me. Can't say i've lost interest completely in the idea of romance, and I haven't had the requisite number of relationships to make judgment on what relationships should be or shouldn't be, but I have been questioning the whole nature or relationships and what I should or can expect realistically compared to what is often presented, and idealized in books, fairytales , or other fictional representations in the media. But probably won't know or understand it until I've had the chance to be in a "real" relationship, although i'm not sure what "real" will eventually mean.

[holetoledo]

Right! Doesn't help that I'm dating a philosophy major who tears apart the definition of a 'relationship' all the time on a daily and unbiased basis.

[cocoa]

Yeah, that must be kinda annoying Sounds as if he is taking the philosophy of relationships too seriously. Whether or not these rituals are "real" or not in his eyes, the social benefits of romantic rituals for a relationships are enormous. If he really cares about how you feel then it shouldn't be that difficult to understand the importance of these rituals and to engage them out of respect and appreciation for you.

[holetoledo]

Yes, but his values are important to him also, so much so that he doesn't really want to let them go. If he did bend to something I wanted to do, he feels like he's just challenged and betrayed his own values. Though, to be honest, a relationship wherein I do not celebrate anniversaries have been A LOT cheaper, heh. His take on this is that you should treat your partner or spouse the same every day instead of just heaping all the special into one day that could possibly mean nothing after you've broken up, even though you might have been together for fifty years. That's why he doesn't like the temporal aspect of anniversaries.

He's done tons of things for me, which is why I feel bad when I want some sense of "normalcy" but really, he is not that normal... Together, we're pretty much a very countercultural couple. I don't believe in marriage; my body, though I am a woman, doesn't seem to be geared up for childbirth so we both have the same views on adopting, plus I see it as there are so many children out there who need parents. Doesn't seem fair to make a child biologically when there are other children out there waiting.

Though I try to respect his opinions, it seems more like we step on each other's toes more often than not...

[holetoledo]

i feel like maybe i put physicality too much on a pedestal considering all the bad romance novels i got into in high school.

it was like YAY SEX EQUATES LOVE, AND LOVE EQUATES LOTS OF ORGASMS.

[cocoa]

i feel like maybe i put physicality too much on a pedestal considering all the bad romance novels i got into in high school.

it was like YAY SEX EQUATES LOVE, AND LOVE EQUATES LOTS OF ORGASMS.

Yeah. So many expectations are built up that when the real thing comes along, it's sometimes difficult to makes sense of it because it's so different than what was earlier expected. I realize the reasoning behind his perspective, but at the same time, isn't compromise important? I mean would it hurt that much to follow at least a few of these rituals?

[holetoledo]

I don't know. He is one stubborn guy. I love him a lot, it's just it's the same argument that pops up every time. I feel like we're exhausting it.

[Hopeless Dork]

I think wanting a physical connection has nothing to do with romance novels or romantic comedies and everything to do with just being human. I don't want rose petals on the bed or candlelit baths... I want him to grab on to me and hold me for no reason other than he couldn't resist doing so. Human beings have a physical need to be close to someone, not just sexually either... but yeah that too. Its not 'romantic' in my opinion to want to rest your head on someones chest, it just feels right.

So what I am saying I guess is if you want physical intimacy and he does not, its not because you were brainwashed... its because its a natural thing to want. If you want him to drop to his knee or belt out love ballads all the time then yeah... you've seen one too many sandra bullock flicks lol. But wanting your man to wrap his strong arms around you in a long line for a movie out in the cold... thats someone you love comforting you and an expression of love. I hold my boyfriends hand because its warm, or because its cold, because it comforts me and makes me feel close to him. I walk past him and spank his butt because its there. I sit on his lap during a crowded party because its the best seat in the house to me I don't think being close and touchy feely is fabio novel hogwash.

As for celebrating holidays, meh. I think if someone makes you feel good inside, makes you feel special on a regular old wednesday you are less likely to need extreme bells and whistles on a hallmark greeting card day. I don't place any importance on marriage... I value committment and intimacy and a unique connection that 2 people share with each other and I think you can have all that without a piece of paper and that you can have that peice of paper while having none of it. Loving someone is compromise... it means trying to see things from their side and it sounds like you are doing that for him... is he doing it for you too?

[holetoledo]

He does show me physical intimacy, but he puts the focal point on vocal communication and I am SO bad at that. Maybe too many bad experiences with other guys, I don't know. He's more for the private physical intimacy, though, nothing like public displays of affection aside from a kiss or a hug. But though we go to the same school, I probably see him maybe three times a week and maybe get one kiss out of it... My girlish side says that when he kisses me, it makes me feel nice and wanted. But mostly he says something like, "I don't want physical intimacy to be the sole basis of our relationship", which I can understand. I see couples all the time who work amongst each other and they don't need public physical touches to reinforce that they love each other. And I want to be like that, to feel that he loves me without so much touching, but I guess I'm a bit insecure and I feel like I need it.

When we're alone together, he holds my hand and he's real cuddly and loving and attentive. It's just we just don't have time to be alone together lately, what with exams going on and all... Just busy.

Guess it's all just delayed gratification from here.