[virgo man]

Little, I wish you hadn’t replied to my post.

Your title of ‘Head of Operations & Moderator Management’ makes it unlikely that anyone will disagree with you and express support for traditional marriage.

Virgo

[ItsASecret]

Virgo man, those atheists with solid marriages might disagree with your views.
And, based on the OP's history, I think she might as well.

Little, I wish you hadn’t replied to my post.

Your title of ‘Head of Operations & Moderator Management’ makes it unlikely that anyone will disagree with you and express support for traditional marriage.

I very much disagree with the viewpoint of marriage is an acceptance or promise to the Lord or something Holy and I do not say that because Little is a head moderator. I say that because I do not follow, will not follow, and do not promise the Lord in anything I do. Those that do believe are perfectly fine by me, that is their choice that is their commitment to a higher being. If marriage to them is something involving the significance of a religion or Lord then so be it, that is their tradition, that is their decision their passion their faith and nothing is wrong with that. But it is not a definitive definition, a person who does not believe in the Lord does not consider it an acceptance to the Lord. As a person who does not believe, to me marriage is an agreed upon love between two committed people who vow to love each other for life and want to show that love by having the ceremony. The ceremony itself does not 100% they love each other, they love each other without the certificate but the marriage is simply a symbol of their desire to show that love in an outward public display. People can be madly in love with each other without that certificate, marriage is not a requirement to prove that undying love so to me it is perfectly okay to be in a relationship and not get married or show interest in marriage.

[Little]

People disagree with me on these boards all the time, and thank goodness! I can't know all the facts about everything, and all my opinions can't be shared by everyone on the board. There wouldn't be much room for discussion if they did. Based on your previous accolades concerning moderators as contributors, I'm concerned your disdain for my response has more to do with my sentiments than my position. Straw men and all that. In any case, if you have any further problem with my management of or participation in this forum, you should take it up with me via VM, PM, or through the email listed in my information.
I am fairly familiar with the OP's postings in the past, and due to her previous issues with Christians who might be called overzealous, I assumed she may take issue with your opinions. Obviously, only she can answer that for us. Moreover, as the idea of marriage far outdates Christianity, how can it be deemed traditional? Maybe WildChild could help me out with this, as she has a background in anthropology and religion that I lack.
OP, as other posters have mentioned, the people rudely putting down your relationships are probably poor judges for one reason or another. I have found that feigning a misunderstanding of their sentiments, then acting incredulous that they'd be so rude (with the idea that they can't possibly mean what they said) works wonders.

[CHANDLERS WISH]

Asian Grace,

Your thread asks how to deal with rude comments....

I am older than you Engaged because we wanted to, we want to get married and living with him because "we" wanted to and I understand this stigma of "when" as we get it all the time too.

People judge and they shouldn't..

Look at the people that judge.... 2 and a half years is not a long time to be togehter, to totally know each other inside out yet, living together gives a definate advantage of knowing alot more about a person in so many ways...

If you look at the people making these comments, people you know, friends they are of the same or simular age group to you..

Remember all the discussions on this Forum about "settling" it is these types of personalities that do not know the true meaning of the word love... Or else they wouldn't be making these judgemental comments to you, they would purely just be happy for you, that you are happy....

In 10 years time you will look back and more than likely you will still be happy and they will not, as they view living together equals marriage...As in you should be...Yet, is that really a reason to get married? No....It's love..Where will they be? Will they just settle for someone? That is what equals Divorce in my opinion...

To me for the record a committment is exactly that, a committment... And that should be honoured regardless...

Just know that you are happy and that is all that counts...

[Hopeless Dork]

I do not think the TITLE of marriage means a relationship is healthier, happier or more successful. At all. How many marriages end up in divorce again? How many men and women cheat on their spouse? Abuse their spouse? Berate their spouse? Walk out on their spouse? Take advantage of their spouse? Sure all of those things happen in non-married committed relationships as well, so doesn't that help accuentuate the point that a certificate of marriage doesn't = a more happy relationship with the person you are with?

What matters is the couple, their understanding of each other, their level of commitment being the same, that is what leads to a happy relationship. A big wedding, regligious or not, a court document (with witness' and all!) doesn't in any way shape or form say that your relationship is going to last, is going to be better, is going to stay good... it gives no more gaurentees than a solid non-married committed relationship does.

[WildChild]

Asian Grace, other people's comments and opinions need only matter to you if you choose to let them. Of course you have to judge intelligently based on the country/culture you live in and are subject to. You could respond with a raised eyebrow and the question, "Why does this matter so much to you?" Depending on your tonality that could be a definite shut down, an insult, or an inquiry. Other responses that come to mind are:
"How's Your love life?"
"Gee you must not have much going on in your life right now if you have so much time to worry about mine"
"Have you done something different with your hair? You look fantastic today" (totally ignoring, obviously changing the subject)
"I'm waiting until the space aliens in the closet say the time is right"
"I'm sorry, what did you say? I seem to keeping hearing you ask why I'm not married" (If they reply that they did ask, look surprised and say, "Oh, really?!" - nothing else)
"We've taken a vow" (don't say of what - it could be not to dye your hair purple on a full moon - it's not their business.
"Actually we were talking about marriage but we are waiting to find the right three or couples to join with"

Bottom line is you do what is right for you. Not what anyone says they think you should do. not what their religion says you should do. If start worrying about doing what everyone else says you will never own your life or do what You need to.

Little, LOL, As for religion and/or "traditional" marriage, I'm not going to get into what the bible has as marriage but it isn't pretty, at least not for women, not unless you think that women should marry their rapists, men can have unlimited wives along with concubines and servants to have sex with but women should be only with their husband, that daughters having sex with their fathers is ok, that giving your wife to a mob for their use to get them to leave you alone is ok, I could go on but I think that is sufficient in that arena.

Its hard to know of a certainty what people have done throughout history regarding committed relationships. Translations are made and interpretations necessarily made with those. A word could have several meanings or shades of meaning and the translator's personal biases will affect their choice - it virtually can't not. What we see or think we see is not based on the eye so much as the mind. If our mind is closed to certain possibilities then we will not see them. We do know that in many cultures before the rise of patriarchy, sex and orgasm were part of worship in many parts of the world. There is reason to believe that healers and probably most women knew of herbs and roots to control fertility, induce abortion, or cause sterility. I haven't looked deeply into that at all but know of at least one. Of course looking at many ancient cultures we little to go on to understand their interpersonal relationships because while they may have recorded harvests and such, there is no written record of this. It does seem that most cultures had some means of couples committing to each other, after all, our technology has changed a great deal but our nature hasn't changed much, people no doubt felt attraction and love 10,000 years ago just as they do now. We do know from cultures that were reported on before they were decimated, that in some offering sex to a guest was a matter of hospitality. Due to cultural biases and the fact that most such travelers were male, I doubt we have a really accurate or balanced view of that as regards women. It would be interesting to be able to go back and see what really went on way back when in the cultures that appear to have been equitable and non militaristic before they were overrun and brutally destroyed.

Ultimately it doesn't matter what was or has been. What matters is what is our vision for the future? What kind of relationship models do we want to create? I think it is very obvious that what we have had doesn't work for many people. My own vision is that people should be able to chose and be honest in their choices, not pressured by religion or other odd social constructs. If you want one man, one woman till death - have at it. If you want one woman and one woman or one man and one man - have at it. If you want 3 women, 2 men, go for it. My thing is they all have to be freely consenting adults and there always has to be an honorable way to exit (it cannot involve threat of death, dismemberment, poverty for life or other such uncharming practices).

[Guest]

Like I said earlier in this post...., just go back and read it. There is a lot I just don't put "out there", but if you read my posts it shows exactly how I feel on this subject. Sometimes you have to read between the lines

[Guest]

Traditional marriage, well it's the only way for me and my wife. We both agree that's it's the way Nature intended, on the other hand- My oldest sister has a SO and consider themselves married as they went to Arkansas and had some little ceremony. To each their own, but without the traditional marriage there wouldn't be any other kinds of unions, now would there? But to each their own. Just my view and not causing any kind of disruptance here at all. It's all what each of us like or don't- nothing to get mad about or upset about. It's all about Individual Choices- and that's it. You can choose any lifestyle you wish, I just don't want any of it pushed on me. As I don't push mine on anyone else, I wish for others to just keep their choice to themselves. Can't we all just get along?
This might or might not get me into trouble, but I'm intending for this post to be neutral as we all have our own choices in life.

[Little]

Mark, there's nothing wrong with your post. But maybe we should start a new thread concerning marriage, so we don't derail this thread Seems we all have quite a bit to say on the subject.

[asiangrace]

Thank you everyone for weighing in on this. I really appreciate it!! I agree, just because a couple is married, doesn't mean they're happy. I know a ton of married couples who are miserable!! I would much rather be happy than have a piece of paper stating our "love" for each other. I think the most important thing is that we're both on the same page regarding where we want our relationship to be. Thank you for affirming we don't need a marriage license to "prove" we're happy and in love.

As far as the religious point of view on marriage.... I don't know what I think about it. I know many, many "Christian" couples who have made the same promises to the Lord - and they are still miserable and several of them have ended up in divorce anyway. I don't believe just because a promise is made to the Lord it automatically means a blissful and successful marriage at all. The couples I know where there has been unfaithfulness have been Christian couples who claimed to believe that marriage was Holy. My boyfriend is agnostic. I believe there IS a God, but am still struggling a lot with Him. I just don't believe just because He's "present" at the wedding automatically means the couple is going to work harder at keeping vows. In fact, I've found it quite the opposite. Couples become so unhappy, but because they believe the vows are Holy, they continue to live in a miserable state of commitment for the sake of holiness. Why would you want to live like that??

I appreciate so much the affirmation I have received from all of you that it's okay we're not on a marriage license! I know several couples who rushed in to marriage, and now they're as unhappy as can be because they didn't take the time to really get to know each other, and now they feel "stuck" I think my boyfriend and I are doing it right.