[Ashlee T.]

I have always been a slow mover in relationships. Emotionally at least. The biggest mistake most guys have made with me is trying to jump in impulsively, suddenly making me their world, being head over heels "in love" with someone they've not even taken the time to get to know. Then I had a relationship that was born out of a long friendship and everything was COMPLETELY different. The comfort, the trust, the friendship.....the FOUNDATION was there. As most of you all know, he died.

Fast forward a year. I've been dating someone for a couple months. Super guy. Kind, gentle, compassionate, giving, handsome, etc etc. The one problem? He has done what all the other guys have done (except for the one). Within a month of our first date, we got into our first "argument" over him being too needy/clingy. He blamed it on a few too many drinks and apologized profusely. He has tried to do better, but the behavior always seems to resurface. Since our first date, I have had one weekend to myself (meaning one weekend where we did not go out on a date or hang out together). That weekend, which I asked for weeks in advance, also happened to be the anniversary of my loved ones death. He seemed cool with it, understanding, etc. But he texted me CONSTANTLY and continually reminded me of how much he missed me, how much he wished he was with me. Everything I said resulted in some sort of mushy cheese fest of a response. If I said "I'm eating toast." he might say "Toast is so good and warm....like the way you make me feel when I'm with you." When he's home alone (off work) he texts me about every 30 minutes. If I don't respond, he'll send another one within 15. If he sends me something that doesn't warrant a response in my opinion, he'll send something within 15 minutes that does warrant a response. I love compliments and flattery as much as the next person, but too much is just too much. By the end of that weekend I was suppose to have "to myself", I was fed up, frustrated and felt tremendously pressured. I told him this. So this week instead of the constant "I miss you." "I wish I was with you.", he's turned into sex stuff reminding me regularly how he's thinking of us together in that way, wishing we were waking up together so we could have "Thanksgiving sex". Any of these things isolated would be completely fine, normal, okay. But all together......wow I'm just smothered.

I haven't been able to shake it. I've lost my desire to even be around him. Why? All because of that type of incident which seems to reoccur? I think it's just too much pressure. So much in my life has changed over the past year, death of boyfriend, new job, new relationship, loss/gain of friendships, etc. Why can't guys just date you anymore? I have been so vocal about this with him, that I just want to date and get to know each other, slowly, no smothering, etc. Yet, he claims I'm the woman he wants to spend the rest of his life with. He told me he loved me after two months of dating, DURING sex. He has told me since the first month that I'm the most important thing in his life. He lived 40 years without me, and within a month I am THE most important thing in his life? Wow....that's no pressure at all.

I don't know whether this is me and my issues.........or whether this is just a pure incompatibility. I am going through a period of pretty deep depression, and my desire is to isolate myself. Am I pushing him away? Or is he smothering me, resulting in me pushing him away? I feel like someone is holding their hand over my flame.

[atskitty2]

Happy Thanksgiving BD.

I have the same issue with men I date. I haven't dated in nearly a year, mainly for this reason. It's exhausting. I'm dealing with some serious health issues and while I'd enjoy some companionship at times, the thought of a man placing unreasonable expectations on me is just enough to make me not even try to meet someone.

I've decided it's their own insecurities, trust issues maybe among other issues that creates the need for constant reassurance from me. Constant. The last man I dated didn't start out terribly needy but moved very fast, telling me he loved me after just a couple weeks, & he grew more needy as we went forward, and I lasted only 6 wks. There were other issues, but like you, I just withdraw. I no longer am inclined to make efforts to see them. I lose interest, and I guess I lose a respect for them, when they cannot respect my requests for space and time. I have conversations about it, but they can't seem to control the tendency.

Anyway, I've found there's really no solution other than breaking it off. It doesn't improve.
And then even after the breakup, there's the shameless contacts, sometimes months later, revealing the void I've left in their life...its a bit much.

I've been told I've perhaps let some good men get away...that I'll regret the choices when I end up alone. I doubt I regret any of these particular choices so far. I couldn't be happy in that type of relationship. I'm happier alone, and peaceful, rather than working so hard to satisfy someone who isn't content with my natural love language. Yes, I took the test And their display of love isn't suitable to my needs either.
It's just about compatibility.

Relationships take work. There's always giving that must take place on both sides. But these, I feel, are changes and go well beyond giving and compromise.

It isn't meeting his needs any more than its meeting mine, so it's best to just end it.

That's probably where you are. You cannot expect to change yourself so much that you could ever be what he needs. You'll wear yourself down and end up resentful. And he will likely still not be feeling loved and appreciated. He needs that and deserves it as well.

I hope this makes sense...meds have my mind a bit mushy these days, and expressing myself clearly isn't always easy.
Good luck. Keep me posted.

[Ashlee T.]

Happy Thanksgiving BD.

I have the same issue with men I date.

You are on the money. Wow it feels nice to know someone else struggles with this even though I'm not happy for you that you have to.

I had a long talk with him today. He is such a sweet person with such a sweet heart. But I took the opportunity to talk with him about it, again....bluntly but respectfully. I reminded him of how less then 24 hours after we got back from a great weekend trip together he was already texting about missing me, aching for me, wanting to be with me. I had just spent the entire weekend with him....and that was a big deal for me. I told him that his personality smothers mine. But my personality leaves him feeling unwanted and insecure. From my perspective, I have done A LOT with him these past couple months that should've been good enough to lessen his insecurities. But it hasn't been good enough. I introduced him to my group of gf's and their husbands. I introduced him to my boyfriend's (who died) family. I invited him to dress up and go out with me on Halloween. I planned a weekend getaway with him. But in all of that it hasn't been enough to keep him from needing to drowned me. He acknowledged all of this today.

Yet...... we'd been together since 10am today. At 9pm tonight I had to ask him to leave so I could go to bed. I found myself starting to get irritated by around 7-8, feeling like "please just give me some space"....hoping I would not have to ask him to go....hoping that he'd say "Gonna head on home. It's been a good day!". But he didn't. I don't ever want to be hurtful to him. He deserves better than to be hurt. But what else do you do in that situation?

I need a foundation in a "relationship". If I'm going to be expected to be in a full blown committed relationship, I need a foundation. I told him today that he's trying to put a house on a spot with no foundation and that a home like that will never ever last. I told him that in his desire to be "in love" with me, he's not truly even getting to know who I am.

Thanks for making me feel like I'm not alone in this and like perhaps I'm not crazy after all. Maybe I'm just different than the norm. I've been thinking about what caused all this to "snap" in me...and I can only conclude that it's an accumulation of various pressures in my life that have finally just caused me to reach a boiling point. It is a miserable place to be for me right now. I hate how I feel, and yet I seem to be able to do nothing to change it.

Again.....THANK YOU. If you find the magic secret.....................don't forget to share with good ole BD.

[atskitty2]

I'm surprised he didn't offer to just stay the night, when you asked him to leave, or invite you to come back to his place. That's what usually happens for me. "Just throw a few things in a bag, and follow me home for the night". Or, "oh I'm sorry I was just planning to bunk down here for tonight, since I'm off work tomorrow anyway and we can go to breakfast"....

Has he picked up a variety of toiletries to stow at his place for such occasions, so you never have a reason to say no? And your favorite fragrance....favourite snacks...etc. so you always feel welcome?
And I've not even slept with any of these men, so I could rule out the physical involvement as a cause.

Smothering, yes. It chokes the life right out of me. I'm not such a hard hearted person, that the sweetness and giving nature is lost on me, but there's a boundary issue, this early, that must be respected for me to feel comfortable.

You're more patient than I. I'd not continue this relationship. I admire the time you're giving it a chance. 6 wks is my longest relationship since the divorce.
I wish you well. Keep me posted.

[Ashlee T.]

You're more patient than I. I'd not continue this relationship. I admire the time you're giving it a chance. 6 wks is my longest relationship since the divorce.
I wish you well. Keep me posted.

I see so much good in him. I see him as being a wonderful and attentive potential future partner and father. And since those are both things I'm considering for the future, I want to make sure I'm looking for the right things in people.

I love that you mention not being hard hearted. I totally agree. Women like us often get that wrap even from our fellow females. Many women have said "I'd kill to have a man that into me!!". But that's the thing....when every guy you date is THAT into you, it begins to look like they are just in love with the idea of being in love........... which results in them trying to force fit a round peg into a square hole. Which results in them trying (not even consciously) to pressure you into being something you're not, into feeling something you haven't even had a chance to feel. I am tender hearted and full of love..... but it is a much deeper love that something impulsive that pops up after a month of knowing someone.

I will say he has not done any of those things you mentioned. He's pretty careful on things like that. Hasn't brought anything over here. I let him stay once after Halloween party because it was SO late when we got in and he would've had a 45 minute drive home. I didn't want him out on the road on Halloween night at 2am. But otherwise, I have not asked him to stay.

I truly, truly just want to date. Not even multiple people. I'm fine with exclusively dating him but I want to be asked out on dates. Instead of the weekend arriving and the assumption being that we're going to spend our Saturday together, I'd like him to say, "Could I take you to dinner tonight?" , take me to dinner, have good conversation, come home, kiss goodnight and leave. Or a movie. Or maybe a trip to the city to look at Christmas lights, or a play etc. The current assumption, as it has been with almost EVERY guy I've ever dated is, Saturday arrives, they assume we're spending it together, they ask me what I want to do, I'm flustered and tired of making all the decisions, so I tell them they can come over. Then, we sit on the couch and watch TV, have sex, and then at some point I have to say "Do you mind to leave so I can get to bed?"

Something else I haven't mentioned and I wonder if you're the same, this affects me sexually as well. When I start dating someone new, before they fall into this submissive, "I'm so in love with you!" "You're my WORLD" routine, I find sex fun and exciting. I have a great sex drive. But when this happens.................... it completely disappears and sex becomes this obligatory thing. We slept together on our 3rd date. We have yet to be together since the third date that we have not slept together. I would like to know that he can be around me, snuggle up with me, enjoy me, without ALWAYS the expectation of sex. I have mentioned this to him several times. I am at fault of moving too fast physically...............and then once you start that it is hard to backtrack.

I know relationships exist where this type of thing doesn't happen. My boyfriend that died and I had that type of relationship. He was the ONLY one, EVER who did not smother the life out of me. Irony would have it that he died. But, I know it exists. Apparently, it is just very very rare.

[atskitty2]

Have you told him you still want the experience of just dating, with no assumptions made about how your spare time will be spent? That even tho you're exclusive, you don't want it to be taken for granted that you have no other plans?
It seems to me you've communicated about this, but he doesn't get the whole picture. It's just how he is.

Secondly, yes, I absolutely do lose interest physically with this behavior. I want a strong man, independent, not one who's hanging on my words and decisions and can be as tough or tougher than me, mentally and emotionally. It is a turn off to see that look of disappointment and almost begging attitude that arises when I announce I'm going to dinner with a friend rather than them. "Well, can you stop by afterward? Or I can meet you at home if you let me know what time...." No! Just an evening to myself, leave me alone!!!!
I want a man with a life for himself outside of me, just as I don't make a man my life until later in the relationship. Mismatched affection, ideas of commitment and expectations beyond the level of commitment are off putting.

Yes, this is part of why I hold off physically until I know they're not going to turn into a leech. Because I know at that point, it's over for me. In my experience, it just never changes back to a level, reasonable sense of longing for each other, mutually. And that is simply a deal breaker for me. I cannot live with that long term.

The first man I dated after divorce, was very "into me", but he didn't act like a teenager with his first crush...He was running a successful business and had full custody of 3 children. I also have a demanding job. He made it clear he would enjoy spending more time getting to know me, but it had to be slow because of the demands on his time, & priorities in his life. He texted me as able, called at least daily and we saw each other a couple times a week.
He called me once, knowing I was off work, & said he'd had a business emergency and had to make a 2 hr drive, asked if I'd like to ride along and keep him company. Of course I went, and it was nice. I got to see him in work mode, hear him conduct business by phone and once we arrived on the site, so it was very revealing for me. He also understood my work ethic and responsibilities, and need to see friends and do my own personal things too.
The point is, he cared very much to get to know me and made a point to make time, but I wasn't his whole world. He was engaged in his family, building a beautiful home for his kids and building a business that would allow him to raise them comfortably, and free up time to spend parenting. When/if a woman fit into that, great. He was independent, didn't need me but wanted me when it could work out for us both.
So, it's possible. Not all men are reliant on the woman in their life for happiness and security. It's possible to be a priority but not THE priority, if that makes sense.

For me, I just know this behaviour will not be tolerable long term, and if I've discussed it with them, and they don't show any understanding and effort to "change", I'm out.
The thing is...I really just believe it's inherent for them. Not sure they CAN change themselves. It's how they show love, and is it really reasonable for me to ask them to change? I don't think so any more.

And in that same sense, it's nearly impossible for me to demonstrate love to them in a way that's meaningful for them, without making myself very uncomfortable and unhappy.
So, long term, it's a no go. It isn't fair to either of us.

I'm actually a giver, in a committed relationship. I'm not passive and dismissive of my man's needs, and I don't find it exhausting to do so. It's just that, I don't just give myself and my attention fully, until I know there's a solid foundation for building something stronger. Early on, I need that time of getting to know someone and deciding if they are going to be a part of my future. There are so many factors to consider.

Another thing is, I don't know why I tend to attract those men, and initially be attracted to them...that's what I'm trying to decide now. Lol

[Ashlee T.]

Oh ats, we sound SO much alike. I too am a giver in a committed relationship. I thoroughly enjoy making "my man" feel good, emotionally and physically. It's the building of the foundation everyone seems to want to skip.

Sometimes I think that so many have come from broken homes that as adults they are longing for that "family" intimacy. They want to play house asap, go to sleep together, wake up together....all the things you do with someone you're committed to. But I am not even capable of wanting those things with someone before we've established a foundation.

We talked for a long time last night about courtship. I told him that everyone these days wants to skip it entirely, and move right into being each others worlds. I told him very plainly (no insinuations or hints) that courtship is what I want. I want to be asked out on dates, I want him to walk to me to my door, kiss me goodnight and go home. And if I do invite him in for a coffee or tea, then when we're done, excuse yourself to leave.........don't make me tell you to leave. As for sex, I told him we moved into that way too fast too and that at this point in our adventure, sex should not be an expectation or an obligation. It's just too soon for that to even be a factor. He's very receptive to all this. He's been texting A LOT less, which is already a nice change. I'm not ready to give up on him yet.....all I can do is just see what happens and know that either way, I will do the right thing for both of us. I won't be with someone I'm resentful of. He and I both deserve better than that and we agreed on that.

What you describe in a man you want and what was attractive to you about your ex husband is exactly what I look for, and what attracts me to a T.

I also ponder the question of what is it about me that attracts that type of guy. I believe I know the answer. They are insecure of themselves (some minor, some major) and insecure people seek something to fill their gaps. Secure confident people see themselves as whole on their own and seek someone only to enhance that. I believe I am initially attracted because they don't let me see that insecurity at first....but it always comes out.

[atskitty2]

Well keep me posted. I am happy the further discussion was productive, and he seems to be responding to your needs.

[Maximus]

This is definitely a tricky issue with several layers.

The first layer is the basis of the relationship, which to me, seems to be physically driven from his side.
In the context of serious relationship. this can/is a liability as one would only see "life" through these lenses.
This goes to the broader question of men courting women before even getting into the dating process.
I might be old fashioned but I do believe that step is necessary. The simple reason comes from the fact that it takes time to know one.
An additional aspect some men can forget is the ability to make love to a woman's mind before ever discovering her other treasures.
This is crucial. I would even consider the lack of understanding as a lack of maturity.

The second layer comes from the respective histories and past.
More specifically with whom one has been and grew or didn't grow.
I would not even get into the notion of quality of love, and the space we allow, either physical or figuratively to our partner.

The keywords for me are security and maturity, and how to bring that and change the paradigms.

[Ashlee T.]

This is definitely a tricky issue with several layers.

The first layer is the basis of the relationship, which to me, seems to be physically driven from his side.
In the context of serious relationship. this can/is a liability as one would only see "life" through these lenses.
This goes to the broader question of men courting women before even getting into the dating process.
I might be old fashioned but I do believe that step is necessary. The simple reason comes from the fact that it takes time to know one.
An additional aspect some men can forget is the ability to make love to a woman's mind before ever discovering her other treasures.
This is crucial. I would even consider the lack of understanding as a lack of maturity.

The second layer comes from the respective histories and past.
More specifically with whom one has been and grew or didn't grow.
I would not even get into the notion of quality of love, and the space we allow, either physical or figuratively to our partner.

The keywords for me are security and maturity, and how to bring that and change the paradigms.

You are right, as usual. What I'm finding is that this has become the norm. We don't court each other these days. It has become the norm to meet, like each other, and POOF, before we can blink weare in a full fledged, committed and exclusive relationship spending all our time together, acting like a ready made family. I guess we are old fashioned, because I believe courting is necessary too. I can "be" with almost anyone. I can enjoy lots of people. In other words, I could easily settle into something mediocre with lots of different people and then try to force fit something long term. But I don't want to. I think a courtship gives us the knowledge of "is this something I want to pursue and continue?" as to where jumping in head first does not give us that clear frame of mind.

He's done well on backing off so far. His texting is far more infrequent (THANK GODDDDDDDDDD. LOL!) and he's not smothering me with cheesy mushy stuff all the time. It gives me much needed time to breathe. To think. And I hope that I will be able to regain that desire to be with him, the "Hmm, I miss him and am looking forward to seeing him!" feeling I had with him at first.