[GlitterAndStuds]

As I stated before, I understand how hard it can be to consider leaving someone that you've loved for a matter of years. It does happen though. No one is saying it would be an easy thing, he'll actually probably drag his feet on it if I'm getting the right impression of him.

Making excuses and justifying his behavior will not help. It's always easier said than done, but it's better from everyone if you leave him. And there's always that fear of leaving someone so abusive, because who knows what that could trigger. But you should not be stuck in a relationship/marriage where you have to walk on broken glass in order to avoid angering him. You deserve to be with someone who treats you with respect and would not hurt you, in any way. I think that's why you're having thoughts about this other man, because he actually treats you decently..like a person.

Your parents may be upset, but I think your REASON for leaving him would be more upsetting than you actually leaving, as it would for any parent. No one wants to see their child being put through something like this. I think they would be even more upset if you married him, then they found out later on down the line how he's been treating you. If anything, they would be relieved that their daughter did not end up in such a terrible marriage. I had to be that blunt, but that's what you would be heading towards.

6 years is a long time, yes. But there have been plenty of people on here who ended up leaving/considered leaving their loves of 15, maybe 20 years...maybe more. All from being treated badly. Unfortunately, it does happen. But I think you have been dealing with this for long enough. I can't urge you enough to NOT marry this man.

[WildChild]

Chances are your parents are accepting him for your sake, they didn't want to see you dig your heels in and stick to this man just out of stubborness. Caring parents will do things like that. They may very well know what this man is, they know that bad as the situation could be with him, it would be a many times worse if your felt alienated from your family.

Just because he does something nice once in a while, isn't enough. Abusers do that, it's part of the pattern and justifies more abuse later - the I did this for you, you unworthy woman!

You need to get out of this. You wouldn't be here if you didn't know this inside yourself. You can expect that he will try to make you feel guilty, will become angry, may make threats - those could include claiming the two of you have been sexually active together, he may demean you and your family. You will have to be strong. I suspect you will be shocked if/when you tell him it's over.

His statement that he will go into couseling but will break uo with you if the counselour sees any problems - that's a threat. It could be the best thing that ever happens to you, if he actually does it. Please understand how he acts now is Nothing compared to what he would be like if you married him. You may not remember the story some years ago about the egyptian woman who's husband had literally kept her locked up in their two bedroom apartment for years. She was educated, her family tried to intervene, she hadn't stepped outside the door in years, by his order. They were in the same country, of the same culture and they couldn't do anything legally. What would having you in a similar situation do to your mother's health? Or knowing you were being beaten?

You know Islamic law not only allows men to beat the women of their household, it encourages it. The hadith explain how. While it has been widely excused in English as saying to beat them lightly, that isn't what the Arabic actually says, there is no qualifier of lightly. Do you really think this possessive, insecure, jealous man wouldn't use this and justify it as religiously valid behavior? Of course he will, because it is. The Sharia court would support it. Don't let pride from 6 years of time and effort convincing your family to accept him, be a reason to commit your life to this man. Tell them you have realized, seeing his behavior over time, that he is abusive and manipulative and are ending it. My guess is that they will be fully supportive once they understand what is going on. They have respected your intelligence, judgement and independence by accepting this man. Now justify that respect and prove them right to have trusted what they taught you and act in your best interests and get out of this. Don't give up the rest of your life because of the past 6 years.

[Little]

You remind me so much of one of my best friends, she's Sindhi and has such trouble with men because of her conservative upbringing. Even though she was brought up in the Hindi religion, there is still a lot of oppression towards women coming especially from her family.
I think you're blessed to have the supportive family that you have. Maybe you should sit down with your mother and talk to her about this situation and what you are thinking. Maybe she is still secretly worried about your relationship, especially what you said about "keep your Indian identity, Egyptian divorce laws are too strict" makes me think that. She could be relieved instead of stressed that you want to break it off with him. It could be a new opportunity for her, to help you find a man who both you and she believe would make you happy.
It's admirable that you have put 6 years into this relationship, but those 6 years aren't wasted if you break up with him. They've shown you the truth about one type of person: one who lies and manipulates in order to obtain a woman they can control; a woman who is an object to them. That's not the type of man you want. You want one who will respect you as his wife, as the mother of his children. I assume that you have a very loving, caring father ... don't you want a husband like him?
In the end it is your decision and as others have said counseling could really help. But I'm a cynic too ... and I just don't know if he'll ever make it into the office. Please let us know how it goes.
Good luck!

[noor]

The counselling put me in a dilemma. We went there a few times. We went to a palestenian counsellor who told us that there would be problems as I am in west and he's in east. We think differently. He said life is not only based upon love. It changes with time. He said love is a part of marriage. There are many other things invovled. He said we would not agree with the upbringing of the kids and other matters. Even if a couple doesn't love each other they should respect each other.

He told that there are couples who have made it even with differences and they are happy. I had forgotten my cell in his office. When I went back to get my phone yesterday he told me,"Child you have to really think about it. Most Arab men expect their wives to listen to them without questioning & expect the women to compromise. Your fiance has alreasy displayed use of force before marriage." I told him things are better now.He told me this was the honeymoon phase-period of cool between two violent behaviors. He said it's the worst mistake women make when they think their husbands change.He said no matter how much mud you put on an earthern pot it's of no use.(meaning it is impossible for adults to change).

But he also told me that if I believe I can live with this I can go ahead as there are many women who avoid conflict with their husbands by walking out when they get angry.

[danceintx]

Sounds like you are only staying with him to keep your pride and not have to tell your family you may have been wrong. This is not worth a life of imprisonment and misery. Who cares if he apologizes? Being really sorry for something means you don't do it again. He cannot control his anger. And he will not after you marry him still after the things he has done already. His actions are alot like my ex-husbands actions. I kept staying because I got pregnant and when my son was 2 months old he took him and hid with him at his girlfriends house for 3 days, while I was breastfeeding him. It gets worse!! When you have kids, they will be the most inportant to you and he will use them to control you!! This man has problems, listen to everyone on this board and do what is right for yourself. If you don't, you will have wasted your life on a man who will treat you like a piece of property.

[danceintx]

Also, I wanted to mention your're concern for your family and putting them through it if you broke it off with him. Think about what you would put your family through if you marry him, and you are abused, unhappy, depressed, not the same daughter they knew. I feel bad all the time for what I put my family through with my ex husband while he kidnapped my newborn, when he grabbed me in choke holds in front of my kids. When He would call my mom late at night to tell her he was leaving me in front of me just to try to emotionally blackmail me. All the times I would call her crying and she couldn't do anything to help me because we were afraid of him taking the baby again. Better your mother goes through this now, than years of pain seeing her daughter goes through that misery. I am sure she wanted much better for you. You are a beautiful, intelligent woman, that some wonderful man could love.

[CHANDLERS WISH]

The counselling put me in a dilemma. We went there a few times. We went to a palestenian counsellor who told us that there would be problems as I am in west and he's in east. We think differently. He said life is not only based upon love. It changes with time. He said love is a part of marriage. There are many other things invovled. He said we would not agree with the upbringing of the kids and other matters. Even if a couple doesn't love each other they should respect each other.

He told that there are couples who have made it even with differences and they are happy. I had forgotten my cell in his office. When I went back to get my phone yesterday he told me,"Child you have to really think about it. Most Arab men expect their wives to listen to them without questioning & expect the women to compromise. Your fiance has alreasy displayed use of force before marriage." I told him things are better now.He told me this was the honeymoon phase-period of cool between two violent behaviors. He said it's the worst mistake women make when they think their husbands change.He said no matter how much mud you put on an earthern pot it's of no use.(meaning it is impossible for adults to change).

But he also told me that if I believe I can live with this I can go ahead as there are many women who avoid conflict with their husbands by walking out when they get angry.

I think your concellor is totally correct Adults can not change their patterns, more so this is his belief of how a woman is to be, cook, clean, everything in perfect order, never work, because you may meet another man, stuck in the house 24/7 and only allowed food shopping money, nothing for your nails, hair, clothes.

Your 22 Noor what's your dreams sweet?

Can you see yourself living like this? And, being told how to raise your children, what you can and can not do, friends you can not visit, parties you can not go to, food you must eat or else anger arises as you can not waste money?

What are your dreams?

CW

[kms]

It sounds like your fiance is completely out of control and has been so since he was a kid - habits formed when we are children are very difficult to change, and it is highly doubtful he will get better; only worse.

Your life, sanity, health, and happiness are far more important than your pride. It may suck a little bit to admit that you were wrong to your parents, but it will get better quickly. It's better to have some humility and learn from our mistakes. You were (are) young and certainly can't avoid making mistakes every once in a while. Your parents know that and I'm sure they would rather you make one mistake and escape a dangerous relationship, than make TWO mistakes by staying in it and destroying your life.

I'm curious what religious school of thought he follows. Mainstream Islam teaches that hitting the wife is completely unacceptable. Authentic hadith report that the Prophet said, "a man who hits his wife is a coward," and that "a man who hits his wife has no place in heaven." The Prophet also never hit any of his wives, or even spoke to them angrily. Further, just to clarify, the Arabic term in the Quran in the infamous surah regarding 'hitting the wife' has many meanings; it's a very general term and is used in different ways throughout the Quran. Due to the behavior of the prophet and how outspoken he was about domestic violence, it does not make sense to translate it to mean 'hit.' The Wahabi and Salafi school of thought (the same school of thought terrorists follow btw) has a starkly different, and distorted, view on the treatment of women though, but it comes from a lack of knowledge about Islamic history and the science of hadith interpretation. Their teachings are what make it on the news over here in western countries, unfortunately, even though they comprise less than 10% of Muslims worldwide (I recommend reading "What 1 billion Muslims really think" by John Esposito for statistical results of surveys and polls done regarding the opinions of Muslim worldwide about all these sensationalized issues).

So - if he follows that particular school of thought, yes you should definitely leave him because pointing out religious teachings to him will fall on deaf ears. If he's mainstream Sunni though, you should still leave because his religion is clearly not important to him - his traditional culture is. This type of behavior is what the Prophet spoke out against and tried to put an end to, but obviously it still lives on in some Arab communities.

[kms]

oh and by the way, what school of thought do you follow?

[blowfish]

DONT marry him!! i'm a girl and i'm muslim too we almost a like u know and trust me this guy will hurt U...
and if u dare to talk with your parents about this i dont think they will alowed u to marry him ( i'm asian and grow up in muslim family, i know how much family will influence us)by the way your family seem to love and care abou U

just think about it please.....