[Booksy]

Couple of comments and additions here. Especially since I, err, just found out I'm pregnant, so it turns out kids won't be on the scene in a 'few' years but less than a year!

He doesn't actually smell, so, Little, holding down a job isn't a problem (I don't mean that to sound catty).

Counseling isn't an option for him, sadly. He has tried counseling on two occasions in his life, both for what his mother did to him and other terrible things that have happened to him, and both times the therapists accused him of lying. No amount of telling him that those were two expections he was extremely unfortunate to meet will make him go, and to be honest I can't say I blame him.

I was a little harsh about the pants, actually (now I know I can blame pregnancy hormones, yay). Sorry to be graphic, but they don't smell like poop or anything, they just smell like that smell your clothes take on after you come back from vacation and haven't washed them yet. You know, like clothes that are dirty and haven't been washed. Still gross, but it's not like he goes around smelling like actual sh*t; although the concept of wearing the same pants for days on end with no underwear is disgusting to me. Someone please tell me if this is a germaphobe thing, but isn't that like wearing the same underwear for days?

I have tried to bring it up subtly over the past few days, and he's not reacted well. So I'd like some input over what I did wrong...

- We have one of those mechanical toothbrushes with interchangeable heads. For the past few days I've noticed my head on the toothbrush, never his. A few times I asked him if he's been using my toothbrush head and he said no (I left out "so... You've not been brushing your teeth?"). Once I commented, not in a nasty way, that I don't know how he can brush his teeth before breakfast instead of after, because to me eating after getting my mouth all clean seems pointless (which it does). Then he asked me why I treat him like a three-year-old...
- I've been encouraging him to take showers, in the sense of "I'm about to do some laundry and it makes the shower all funny, so can you take your shower quick so I can just get on with it?", or other such excuses. A few times he's done it. Usually he's used it as an excuse to shower later on, which may or may not happen.

jetaime, I have to admit I hadn't even thought of not telling him what to do. It's so simple, but there we go. I'll give that a go. I'm thinking of using the baby as an 'excuse' for us both to constantly be super-clean. If this isn't actually an excuse, and his hygeine could harm the baby, someone please let me know...

[jns]

Instead of taking your own counsel about whether he is stinky to other people, ask someone who will keep it confidential, but will give you the straight scoop. You may have be come desensitized to his odors over time.

It sounds like he is still rebelling against his mother, not a healthy situation for a grown man. I think he should go to a psychologist or maybe to a psychiatrist for behavior modification. This will not work with a marriage counselor. If he truly loves you, he should accommodate your hygienic requirements or compromise somewhere in between. If this continues as it is it will cause a permanent tear in your relationship.

[caterpillar79]

Now that a poster brought up a "no shower, no sex" on one of the earlier posts, do you still have sex even if he is stinky?

JNS brought up behavior modification and I think this can be done. It takes a lot of patience on your part though, since bad habits can be very hard to break.

Start with your target behavior, for example: 1) not brushing, 2) not washing hands after bathroom breaks, 3) not showering everyday, 4) not wearing clean clothes everyday. Next step is to think of consequences and rewards for each of those target behaviors. For instance, if hubby does #1, he gets ______, if he doesn't he gets ______ (something he abhors). And keep on thinking for the other target behaviors. Make sure you communicate this to him clearly. That you have hygiene requirements that he needs to fulfill, and that is NOT babying him for you are NOT his mother.

If he turns around telling you not to treat him like a 3-year old, tell him outright, "then stop acting like one". "Three year olds need to be bathed, changed, brushed, clothed, etc. and you are a grown man. You're right, you are not a 3 year old, but you are acting like one. If you want me to stop nitpicking (fill in the blank), then, do as you are expected." (Period)

You need to shake him up and say these things to him in an honest, gentle but firm manner. If he argues some more, just don't escalate anymore. You've said your point, case dismissed. Move on to behavior modification. If he doesn't want to consult a professional for help, maybe you can seek a psychologist and ask his help on behavior modification so that you are guided accordingly.

Just remember, in behavior modification, there are two things that you need: rewards for the good behavior (target behavior) and consequences for the bad behavior (same target behavior). When you think of rewards, it should be things he loves to do, to get, to have (edibles - you can cook him his most favorite meal, extra time on TV without interruption from you at home, sensual massage with a very happy ending (if he showers), etc. With this in mind, you need to make a consistent effort on everything. If he didn't shower, ___, ____ (fill in target behavior) he will not get _____ (sex, kiss, touch you, TV time, anything he loves to do), but will get this consequence (i.e. you ignore him, not get sex or affection from you, you go out and dine by yourself, you sleep on a separate bed, anything he doesn't want to happen, get, etc.

Make sure your goal for him is attainable on his level, and he can surely taste the goodness of success in each baby step he makes.
Ponder on these things and tell us what you think.

[rosekitten]

I wear my jeans usually for about 4-6 days a week, but I also wear panties... so, yeah. I know the smell of jeans you're talking about, and that's the point that I was mine at. If clothes stink when picked up, they need to be washed. How often do you two do laundry (and who does it)? As for showers, what about showering together? You can get shower heads that are split, so you can each have your own water stream. That may encourage him to shower more regularly, but if that's not something you want to do, it might be self-defeating. As for brushing his teeth, what is his reason for not? I can't stand the taste in my mouth when I wake up, so I can't even imagine what his logic is there. Now, the not washing his hands after he uses the bathroom... yeah, I don't know. My husband washes his hands after he poops, but not when he pees. I call him out on it every time and tell him he's not touching me (or anything else) until he washes his hands. Period. I worked in food service for far too long to let that one slide. I suppose if he doesn't want to take the time to use hot water and soap, you could get some of the instant hand sanitizer to keep in the bathroom as well. Showers before sex are a norm in our household. My husband gets at least two showers a day (military- one after PT and one when he gets home from work). If there's anything even remotely "ick" about either of us, we shower. Now, from time to time I get the itty bitty bits of TP that I don't notice, and we just use a warm wash cloth to remove them.

Instead of smothering him, just lay out the rules "no sex, no kissing, no <insert whatever else is appropriate> until you can clean yourself like an adult." If he's throwing temper tantrums over his hygiene being called out, then he isn't behaving like an adult, so he doesn't get to have adult fun.

[Aeryn Sun]

So I'd like some input over what I did wrong...

Well, if I am taking his side, or trying to find something 'wrong'...

I sounds controlling to say in one instance, you never brush your teeth, and then in the next instance say, "Well, you are brushing your teeth, but not when *I* find it most logical" These are baby steps for him based on his past. Your OP said he goes days without doing it, and if he does do it, you nag and say he isn't doing it when you do it.

Some people brush their teeth before breakfast, some after, some brush their teeth in the shower. . . but they are all brushing their teeth.

[caterpillar79]

I was a little harsh about the pants, actually (now I know I can blame pregnancy hormones, yay). Sorry to be graphic, but they don't smell like poop or anything, they just smell like that smell your clothes take on after you come back from vacation and haven't washed them yet. You know, like clothes that are dirty and haven't been washed. Still gross, but it's not like he goes around smelling like actual sh*t; although the concept of wearing the same pants for days on end with no underwear is disgusting to me. Someone please tell me if this is a germaphobe thing, but isn't that like wearing the same underwear for days?

I think it has been pointed out before on earlier posts that if you want him to wear clean clothes everyday, don't let his dirty clothes "reachable" for him - once he takes them off, wash them, regardless of how cost-ineffective it is. My husband has a tendency to re-use his denims for the 3rd time, but even though he wears boxers all the time, I make sure that all our soiled clothes that are at least 3 days old, I wash them. Once they're wet, he can't complain anymore. He eventually got the message. That being said, have you tried washing his soiled clothes as soon as possible so that he has no chance to reuse them when they're not clean?

I have tried to bring it up subtly over the past few days, and he's not reacted well. So I'd like some input over what I did wrong...

- We have one of those mechanical toothbrushes with interchangeable heads. For the past few days I've noticed my head on the toothbrush, never his. A few times I asked him if he's been using my toothbrush head and he said no (I left out "so... You've not been brushing your teeth?"). Once I commented, not in a nasty way, that I don't know how he can brush his teeth before breakfast instead of after, because to me eating after getting my mouth all clean seems pointless (which it does). Then he asked me why I treat him like a three-year-old...
- I've been encouraging him to take showers, in the sense of "I'm about to do some laundry and it makes the shower all funny, so can you take your shower quick so I can just get on with it?", or other such excuses. A few times he's done it. Usually he's used it as an excuse to shower later on, which may or may not happen.

Basically, I don't see anything wrong in as much as appearing to be too nosy for him, I guess. He probably thinks he is under scrutiny by his mom when you tell him what to do and when you check on him. However, my take on behavior modification still stands but it is a tricky deal for you. Like Aeryn said, some people brush before breakfast - maybe change the way you look at it - for as long as he brushes and takes that morning breath off of his mouth, I think that would be okay. You may also encourage him to chew mint gum during the day, or have him grab an apple for the road. The more he secretes saliva during the day, the fresher his breath would (possibly) stay IF he brushes his teeth in the morning.

Keep your comments concise, so as not to sound like a nag. If he did something hygienically sound, thank him or praise him for that. You should try to focus on what GOOD things he does so he would at least feel like he is not under your microscope all the time.

...I have to admit I hadn't even thought of not telling him what to do. It's so simple, but there we go. I'll give that a go. I'm thinking of using the baby as an 'excuse' for us both to constantly be super-clean. If this isn't actually an excuse, and his hygiene could harm the baby, someone please let me know...

The baby is not so much of an excuse. I hope you can communicate to him that it is a MUST - DO to be clean when handling him/her. Some may argue though that too much cleanliness is not as good for the baby. The thing is, with or without the baby (as of the present), he needs to be observing proper hygiene.

[rosekitten]

Just a note on the brushing thing, I can't remember which forum I read it on (may have been here, but I'm not sure) where it was found that brushing within an hour after a meal is actually worse for your teeth because the eating process softens the enamel, so when you brush right after it actually does more damage. I always brush first thing in the morning, before I eat or anything.

[Ashlee T.]

A few things:

Trying to decide for someone whether they brush before, or after a meal is nit picky and controlling in my opinion. I have known people who thought it was utterly disgusting to come to the breakfast table in the morning with morning breath and dirty mouth. I have also known people (I'm one of them) that when I'm off work, I wake up, have my coffee, eat, and then whenever I feel like brushing, I brush but usually it is after I've eaten. To each his own. You cannot in one breath, complain because he doesn't brush, then in the next breath complain because he didn't brush at what you thought was the right time.

Your first post sounded quite extreme. Your follow up post sounded completely different. I'll be quite honest, if I were married to someone who was checking my every move to the point of practically counting tp sheets to see if I wiped my rear adequately (not saying you do this, just using an example), I'd be a miserable human being.

Please answer: 1. On an average week, how many times does your husband shower? 2. Does your husbands body smell foul? By foul I mean body odor. To me foul does not mean "Well he doesn't stink but he doesn't smell like soap". 3. Does your husbands breath smell foul? 4. Are his teeth grimey and dirty looking? 5. Is he having frequent infections resulting from poor hygiene?

[BabyGirl]

I've been encouraging him to take showers, in the sense of "I'm about to do some laundry and it makes the shower all funny, so can you take your shower quick so I can just get on with it?"

This has me a bit confused, meaning is the Laundry room in the bathroom with the shower ? I think it's the " Makes the Shower all funny " that has me wondering ?
If you use a Good laundry Detergent and a Dryer sheet, there's nothing that smell better than Fresh Laundry
So not seeing how, it would make a shower any different.

Also Christmas is coming up, how about you get him a Gift of some of the Mans Shower Gel/ Wash and Shampoo and Deodorant kits.

There are some really nice ones out nowadays, not just the Old " Old Spice " that smells like Grandpa / Dad depending on age. But some awesome, turns my head smelling ones. and I'm 56, but I sure love the smell of a good smelling man.

Give him a Nice Gift pack and when he opens it, offer to share the shower with him. Or if he just showers alone, when he comes out, tell him how sexy he smells .

As for his Oral Health, as long as he brushes twice a day, whether before or after meals, is up to him, as long as he brushes. If he has sensitive teeth, make sure you have a toothpaste like Sensodyne and a good 12 hour mouthwash, in case he skips a brushing.

As for your being Sensitive and Bytchy because you are Preggers, get used to it.
Your Body and relationship are going to go thru allot of changes . And Trust me , Dirty Diapers and baby Upchuck , may make his 3 day old clothes smell like a Wildflower Meadow ..

[maleview]

He should definately work on his hygiene and you should have every right to deny him sex until he cleans up his act. Not wearing underwear is fairly normal, as is wearing jeans for 2-3 days. I often do that because they feel better the 2nd day, but I am only wearing them for a few hours after work. I also brush right after my morning shower before breakfast. I always wash my hands after using the restroom but skip the soap often when only urinating.