[Marriedandconfused]

I'm at a loss to know what to do + leaving is not an option as I think I would just be unhappier.

Married 20+ years, older teenage kids, both work (me part time) money's not an issue, nice house, holidays and daytrips and meals out when we like/can. So, what's my problem?

Not sure I'm in love. Not sure I ever was.

And now it's affecting my libido and I could quite easily live without it, but he keeps saying "it's important" and why don't I want it.

It's not like we do it "properly" either. Rare we go "all the way" as it usually hurts me, and I don't get pleasure from that anyway. But he does try to please me in other ways.

I just find him irritating and annoying, and I think he feels the same about me.

There's probably loads more that I've missed and forgotten to say, but I will be back later to see if you've asked any questions that I can answer and put myself on the right track.

Thanx for listening

[MissyMegz]

I think you really need to talk to him, surely a part of you never would have stayed if you never truly loved him. You both need to communicate. If you're quite capable of doing all these day-trips and holidays, you're able to spend time getting to know each other. There always much more to learn.

[rcoreyus]

First, its really important that you solve this one way or another - its not fair to him to have to live with someone who doesn't really love him. sorry for all the questions, but just trying to get a better feel for what is going on.

Have you ever been in love with anyone? Are you physically attracted to anyone?

Love is not rational, but sometimes there are rational reasons for not being in love. Is there something about him that pushes you away? his behavior? his appearance? attitudes? Do you respect him, and does he respect you?

Is your life what you hoped for? If not, how isn't it living up to your expectations.

I have some experience with this: for many years (>20) my wife really didn't seem all that interested in me. Sex was very rare despite my best efforts to please her, and when we were intimate, she would just do whatever she could to get it over with quickly. We also had no money problems, traveled all over the world together, seemed to be the perfect couple - but were both unhappy. (my rcoreyus handle is from "richard cory", look up the poem).

A little over a year ago something changed. I still don't know what, but suddenly she was interested and attracted to me. Our sex life became wonderful - and we spent hours just lying in bed or on the sofa cuddling. Its changed everything. I'm happy and honestly I think she is too. I'm not sure, but I think the change started with a deliberate effort on her part to have a sex life again. Maybe it was an effort for her the first few times, but it quickly became something that she greatly enjoys as well.

[Marriedandconfused]

First, its really important that you solve this one way or another - its not fair to him to have to live with someone who doesn't really love him. sorry for all the questions, but just trying to get a better feel for what is going on.

Have you ever been in love with anyone? Are you physically attracted to anyone?

Love is not rational, but sometimes there are rational reasons for not being in love. Is there something about him that pushes you away? his behavior? his appearance? attitudes? Do you respect him, and does he respect you?

Is your life what you hoped for? If not, how isn't it living up to your expectations.

I have some experience with this: for many years (>20) my wife really didn't seem all that interested in me. Sex was very rare despite my best efforts to please her, and when we were intimate, she would just do whatever she could to get it over with quickly. We also had no money problems, traveled all over the world together, seemed to be the perfect couple - but were both unhappy. (my rcoreyus handle is from "richard cory", look up the poem).

A little over a year ago something changed. I still don't know what, but suddenly she was interested and attracted to me. Our sex life became wonderful - and we spent hours just lying in bed or on the sofa cuddling. Its changed everything. I'm happy and honestly I think she is too. I'm not sure, but I think the change started with a deliberate effort on her part to have a sex life again. Maybe it was an effort for her the first few times, but it quickly became something that she greatly enjoys as well.

Thank you everyone for taking the time to reply. I am glad, Rcoreyus, that your wife changed for the better. Maybe I can do this too?

Have I ever been in love with anyone? Well I had a first love who I loved so much I just wanted to hold very tight. But I was only 17 and that finished. I must've loved my hubby in order for us to ever be together and get married (there was a lot of parental pressure to set a wedding date though, from my parents)

As for being physically attracted to anyone..... yes quite a few people, and I used to get turned on by normal everyday things my hubby used to do, including the way he kissed. I've got a low libido (I think) and crave that feeling of making love and climaxing without effort (a bit like she does in Fifty Shades of Grey) I don't think it was a sexual thing with my hubby, it was more that we had similar interests and hopes for the future. For me, it also focussed on his excellent working prospects, as I knew I wanted children and not to have to work while I bought them up (I am not a career minded person) I work part time now, and keep myself busy with other voluntary roles I have undertaken.

Is there something about him that pushes me away? Yes there are a few things that I can't put my finger on right now.

His appearance? He has a set amount of clothes, he'll wear them to death until they are old and worn. I wish he would have several outfits.

I think he respects me, though he does think he is the superior one for having a well paid job and excellent qualifications compared to me.

No life is not what I hoped for? I wished I'd have married someone I truly loved, adored and felt a connection on all levels with.

We are great when we are on daytrips and holidays and I feel a connection with him then. What I can't stand is ALL the hours he's at work. It's quite normal for him to get home 8-9pm every evening including Fridays. He's always been like that. He comes home, I'm in my PJs, no make up on, tired, and he wants to talk about his day when I just want to stay snuggled in front of the TV watching TV.

We have had issues with the internet and chatting to others and I think this has lead to a lack of trust between the two of us.

[rcoreyus]

Sorry for more questions, just trying to get a feel for what is going on (so difficult to do with just words on paper).

Try to think of what he does that drives you away and if he knows about it and if it is something he can change.

Other than your love life (and I know that is a huge deal), is the rest of your life OK - or are you feeling in a rut or depressed because your life isn't what you wanted?

This sounds very familiar to me - but of course I may be just projecting your situation onto mine. In case it helps though here is what it seemed like from my side:

I loved my wife and tried to be good to her, but her lack of interest in sex would leave me frustrated. She'd wonder why I didn't just want to lie in bed next to her, when I was so starved for sex that it just increased my frustration. It felt like she was looking for things to complain about in me, maybe to justify to herself why she didn't want to be intimate. Of course her complaints at me made me even more resentful, and I became less and less affectionate. She seemed to get the idea that whenever I did something nice for her, it was just trying to get sex. Sometimes I felt that she was right, and it made me feel pathetic. On the rare occasions we did have sex, I'd do absolutely anything she wanted, while she felt she should just do whatever got me finished quickly to get it over with.

Like your husband, I didn't wear nice clothes - I was sure they wouldn't be appreciated at home, and it would feel like I was dressing for women at work.

When she got me presents or tried to do something nice for me, it seemed that she was doing everything except the one thing I wanted. I felt unwanted at home, so I did other things to compensate. I worked long hours - at least at work I was appreciated. I flirted (harmlessly) with other women because I was so desperate to feel that someone was attracted to me. I didn't cheat, but I was certainly tempted - it was easy to justify the desire when things were so bad at home.

You can see how toxic this sort of thing can become.

Again, I don't know what your situation really is, it sounds similar to mine, but lots of things may be so different that my suggestions are useless. If it is similar though, here is what I would suggest:

More frequent and more passionate sex. This is trickier for you since you have kids at home - you can't just jump him when he walks in the door. Still to the extent you can, try being intimate with him often, and go out of your way to do things you know he likes - especially things you don't frequently do. Tell him that youve noticed your sex life declining, that it is your fault, and you want to fix it. Give it a couple of weeks.

Then see how things are. Maybe you will still not feel in love with him. At least you will have really given it a try to save 20 years of marriage. Then with a clean conscience you can insist on counseling, or if he isn't interested (or you aren't), you can leave.

Maybe though he will be happier, and that will make you happier. Maybe he will enthusiastically reciprocate your attentions and you will find yourself really enjoying the intimacy as well. Maybe this will spread to all parts of your relationship. Its possible, its what happened for me. The improvement in both our lives is certainly worth a few weeks real effort.

[CHANDLERS WISH]

Just reading that, a few things came to mind, to me.

First.. I guess because your husband doesn't get home until late, obviously eating alone, watching tv, getting comfy, you get into this (single) zone.. And, then someone turns up.. You are used to being alone.

Second. You mentioned two things, on-line and 50 shades of grey.. To me that says you are yearning and missing, intimacy, sensuality, lust.. And, you are looking for it via the net and books and trying to comprehend and understand why you don't feel those things.

Third. You mention all seems good when you go on holidays together, but when home, he wears the same old same old, daggy, nothing new, nothing to go wow over, or mmm he looks good today... There is no laughter either, rather discussions of his day, which is fair enough, he is sharing.

You don't have to wear PJ's when he gets home, every night.

He needs to realise as well that marriage does not mean we get to see you day after day looking daggy

You are both doing it, if you look at what you have written.

It's easy to let go of the lust, the hugs just because, the laughter but you both have to find a way to get that back again, sex isn't good or wanted because the sexiness isn't there, the lust, laughter, in my opinion. Please don't read books or flirt on-line(not saying it was you), saying. Because it is going to confuse the issue at hand totally, and you are going to feel like, you are not in love anymore.

You did love him, him you but you are in this (single zone) I think, used to being on your own.

Tell him it's time to be young again, and ask him to allow you to go shopping for some clothes, you want to desire him but ya know same old same old doesn't do it. And, for you, you'll wait up for him a couple of nights a week, with some cheese , still dressed with make-up turn off the tv and talk, and laugh together.

We get into ruts. Marriages start failing when that happens.

And, we start looking for what we had at 17.

[Marriedandconfused]

Sorry for more questions, just trying to get a feel for what is going on (so difficult to do with just words on paper).

Try to think of what he does that drives you away and if he knows about it and if it is something he can change.

Other than your love life (and I know that is a huge deal), is the rest of your life OK - or are you feeling in a rut or depressed because your life isn't what you wanted?

This sounds very familiar to me - but of course I may be just projecting your situation onto mine. In case it helps though here is what it seemed like from my side:

I loved my wife and tried to be good to her, but her lack of interest in sex would leave me frustrated. She'd wonder why I didn't just want to lie in bed next to her, when I was so starved for sex that it just increased my frustration. It felt like she was looking for things to complain about in me, maybe to justify to herself why she didn't want to be intimate. Of course her complaints at me made me even more resentful, and I became less and less affectionate. She seemed to get the idea that whenever I did something nice for her, it was just trying to get sex. Sometimes I felt that she was right, and it made me feel pathetic. On the rare occasions we did have sex, I'd do absolutely anything she wanted, while she felt she should just do whatever got me finished quickly to get it over with.

Like your husband, I didn't wear nice clothes - I was sure they wouldn't be appreciated at home, and it would feel like I was dressing for women at work.

When she got me presents or tried to do something nice for me, it seemed that she was doing everything except the one thing I wanted. I felt unwanted at home, so I did other things to compensate. I worked long hours - at least at work I was appreciated. I flirted (harmlessly) with other women because I was so desperate to feel that someone was attracted to me. I didn't cheat, but I was certainly tempted - it was easy to justify the desire when things were so bad at home.

You can see how toxic this sort of thing can become.

Again, I don't know what your situation really is, it sounds similar to mine, but lots of things may be so different that my suggestions are useless. If it is similar though, here is what I would suggest:

More frequent and more passionate sex. This is trickier for you since you have kids at home - you can't just jump him when he walks in the door. Still to the extent you can, try being intimate with him often, and go out of your way to do things you know he likes - especially things you don't frequently do. Tell him that youve noticed your sex life declining, that it is your fault, and you want to fix it. Give it a couple of weeks.

Then see how things are. Maybe you will still not feel in love with him. At least you will have really given it a try to save 20 years of marriage. Then with a clean conscience you can insist on counseling, or if he isn't interested (or you aren't), you can leave.

Maybe though he will be happier, and that will make you happier. Maybe he will enthusiastically reciprocate your attentions and you will find yourself really enjoying the intimacy as well. Maybe this will spread to all parts of your relationship. Its possible, its what happened for me. The improvement in both our lives is certainly worth a few weeks real effort.

Thank you again "rcoreyus" once again for taking the time and trouble to "listen" to me and reply. You are sounding very much how my husband probably feels. I did read the poem you mentioned, quite tragic (if it's the right one I read)

As for what I'd like to change/don't like...... Well I have thought about it. It's trivial things, like the way he folds his legs underneath him when relaxing watching TV (bit like a woman) he knows I don't like it. But I should leave him to relax. I don't like the way he/I has to m**sturbate him to a climax every time we have sex (we rarely go "all the way" due to my dryness/soreness) I hate the way that when he's ready to "come" he has to dash to the bathroom for a tissue (note to self..... get him a box of tissues for his bedside table) That's just a few things I can think of at the moment, and they can be changed (though the sex issue of not going "all the way" is another story)

I wouldn't say these things are necessarily "driving me away" they are just familiar boring things that you get bogged down with in a marriage.

We only have our son (17) at home as our daughter has left home now, so that's not an excuse. As for being passionate when he walks through the door, that would feel weird/not normal for both of us. So we can do it sometimes when it's not bedtime when son goes out.

As for trying to be more "passionate" well I could do that, but most of it would be acting on my part. But if it helps! Our sex life is "normal" for us, but doesn't feel like we are doing it "properly" by other people's standards. What couples can live without regular penetrative sex? It's just a fumble for us that hurts me!

Do you wear nicer clothes around the home now? I will have to get my hubby some more clothes, but he always says he's fine as he is. Mind you, I only have to look at myself around the house, and I'm chugging along in boring old clothes too. Unless I go out of course, then I make the effort, but he doesn't always (I am working on that though)

I am having a much better day today, so things are not feeling so bad. He got home from work at a decent time last night and I praised him highly, but it'll be a one off He does know how I feel about his stupid late hours! And yes, it does feel like being single, including a single parent when the kids were little and I always put them to bed by myself and he never saw them from one day to the next with work.

I think I have covered everything (for now) please keep "talking" to me if you can. I am feeling lots better knowing I'm not in this "alone!"

[Marriedandconfused]

Just reading that, a few things came to mind, to me.

First.. I guess because your husband doesn't get home until late, obviously eating alone, watching tv, getting comfy, you get into this (single) zone.. And, then someone turns up.. You are used to being alone.

Second. You mentioned two things, on-line and 50 shades of grey.. To me that says you are yearning and missing, intimacy, sensuality, lust.. And, you are looking for it via the net and books and trying to comprehend and understand why you don't feel those things.

Third. You mention all seems good when you go on holidays together, but when home, he wears the same old same old, daggy, nothing new, nothing to go wow over, or mmm he looks good today... There is no laughter either, rather discussions of his day, which is fair enough, he is sharing.

You don't have to wear PJ's when he gets home, every night.

He needs to realise as well that marriage does not mean we get to see you day after day looking daggy

You are both doing it, if you look at what you have written.

It's easy to let go of the lust, the hugs just because, the laughter but you both have to find a way to get that back again, sex isn't good or wanted because the sexiness isn't there, the lust, laughter, in my opinion. Please don't read books or flirt on-line(not saying it was you), saying. Because it is going to confuse the issue at hand totally, and you are going to feel like, you are not in love anymore.

You did love him, him you but you are in this (single zone) I think, used to being on your own.

Tell him it's time to be young again, and ask him to allow you to go shopping for some clothes, you want to desire him but ya know same old same old doesn't do it. And, for you, you'll wait up for him a couple of nights a week, with some cheese , still dressed with make-up turn off the tv and talk, and laugh together.

We get into ruts. Marriages start failing when that happens.

And, we start looking for what we had at 17.

Thank you too, Chandlers Wish, for "listening" and taking the time to reply. You have said some sensible and logical things. Not sure if he would notice if I was not in PJs and make up on the nights he comes home late, he's tired too. He's a very serious guy, the kind with a permanent frown, but I know he has a sense of humour in there somewhere. It's just finding it, which is hard work at times. Sometimes I feel like I'm a mirror image of him and have lost my sense of humour too. We can get it back, though, we will try.

Of course, no-one will find what they had at 17, but we can try and remember what it was like, and why we got together in the first place.

[Euphoric]

Marriedandconfused,

I read your posts and pondered the things you said. There is a difference in loving someone and being in love with them. It sounds like you love him (meaning you care about him), but not necessarily in love with at the moment. Keeping a relationship 'special' after twenty years is hard. I think one of the reasons is because both parties have become complacent and we often unconsciously take our spouse for granted. Your libido is not going to be shooting through the roof when 1) It hurts and is uncomfortable, 2) Viewed as a chore because the attraction is not what is once was, 3) You already know how it's going to end, which irritates you.

If penetrative sex is hurting you, maybe it's because of dryness and lube would help. I don't recall reading that you have tried that, but I could have missed it. (I've gone back through and re-read this because of some trigger points I wanted to touch on ) What do you consider proper sex? How open minded are you (and Hubby) to trying new things - toys, locations, positions?

I consider myself a little difficult. It's not easy for me to orgasm without a vibrator or small bullet of sorts. My husband doesn't take personal offense or feel that he is less than a man because of it, I blame myself not him for that. So, we incorporate toys in the mix of things. He doesn't mind putting time and effort into making sex a pleasurable experience for me, but in return, I make sure he is well taken care of. I guess I'm a little different from most women because I love making love, but there are also times when I just need a good ************ and I don't want all the bells and whistles when I'm in that kind of mood. I want it deep and heated. I wasn't always forthcoming with what I wanted or needed, but several years of marriage changed my view toward communicating what I wanted. I realized he couldn't read my mind and if I wanted to be happy, then it was my responsibility to communicate better.

I loved your statement about wanting to climax easily like Fifty Shades. I wish I could too, but like I said, it takes a little more effort on his part. I have mid teenage boys at home and Hubby works third shift, so we have to 'work in time' to have sex. Odd as it sounds, my husband is much more reserved about sex. (Him - Do you think the kids know what we are doing. My response - yeah, they probably do, but we're married and they know about the birds and the bees.) I have always been open and honest with my children. After 'sex' education in school, they had questions. I would rather they get accurate information from me or him than false and misleading bullcrap from their friends and I've made a point to let them know that they can come to me with any questions or concerns and I won't lecture them. I'm not advocating premarital sex, but I'm realistic and know that most kids become sexually active in their teens. I think that sex should be an intimate bonding between two consenting adults, therefore, I don't want the kids to think that it's taboo.

I get the impression from your post that your self-esteem has been squashed. You say that your husband feels superior because he has a well paying job and qualifications compared to you. What You have stayed home and raised two children virtually by yourself and now have a part time job. I have always said that a homemaker has one of the toughest jobs on the planet. Work is an escape for me. I needed time away from the house for my sanity. Don't diminish your qualities and self-worth based on a paycheck or job.

Can you talk to him about how you feel and what you need to feel connected to him? Does his job require him to spend so much time at work? Is it possible for him to spend less time at work and more time with you? I get the feeling that you feel second place to his work. Maybe you two could plan a date night. You care about and in essence, love him, but you don't feel loved in the capacity that you need to. You are to be commended for seeking advice and trying to regain or obtain the life that you envisioned living. Keep us updated because we care.

[Marriedandconfused]

Marriedandconfused,

I read your posts and pondered the things you said. There is a difference in loving someone and being in love with them. It sounds like you love him (meaning you care about him), but not necessarily in love with at the moment. Keeping a relationship 'special' after twenty years is hard. I think one of the reasons is because both parties have become complacent and we often unconsciously take our spouse for granted. Your libido is not going to be shooting through the roof when 1) It hurts and is uncomfortable, 2) Viewed as a chore because the attraction is not what is once was, 3) You already know how it's going to end, which irritates you.

If penetrative sex is hurting you, maybe it's because of dryness and lube would help. I don't recall reading that you have tried that, but I could have missed it. (I've gone back through and re-read this because of some trigger points I wanted to touch on ) What do you consider proper sex? How open minded are you (and Hubby) to trying new things - toys, locations, positions?

I consider myself a little difficult. It's not easy for me to orgasm without a vibrator or small bullet of sorts. My husband doesn't take personal offense or feel that he is less than a man because of it, I blame myself not him for that. So, we incorporate toys in the mix of things. He doesn't mind putting time and effort into making sex a pleasurable experience for me, but in return, I make sure he is well taken care of. I guess I'm a little different from most women because I love making love, but there are also times when I just need a good ************************ and I don't want all the bells and whistles when I'm in that kind of mood. I want it deep and heated. I wasn't always forthcoming with what I wanted or needed, but several years of marriage changed my view toward communicating what I wanted. I realized he couldn't read my mind and if I wanted to be happy, then it was my responsibility to communicate better.

I loved your statement about wanting to climax easily like Fifty Shades. I wish I could too, but like I said, it takes a little more effort on his part. I have mid teenage boys at home and Hubby works third shift, so we have to 'work in time' to have sex. Odd as it sounds, my husband is much more reserved about sex. (Him - Do you think the kids know what we are doing. My response - yeah, they probably do, but we're married and they know about the birds and the bees.) I have always been open and honest with my children. After 'sex' education in school, they had questions. I would rather they get accurate information from me or him than false and misleading bullcrap from their friends and I've made a point to let them know that they can come to me with any questions or concerns and I won't lecture them. I'm not advocating premarital sex, but I'm realistic and know that most kids become sexually active in their teens. I think that sex should be an intimate bonding between two consenting adults, therefore, I don't want the kids to think that it's taboo.

I get the impression from your post that your self-esteem has been squashed. You say that your husband feels superior because he has a well paying job and qualifications compared to you. What You have stayed home and raised two children virtually by yourself and now have a part time job. I have always said that a homemaker has one of the toughest jobs on the planet. Work is an escape for me. I needed time away from the house for my sanity. Don't diminish your qualities and self-worth based on a paycheck or job.

Can you talk to him about how you feel and what you need to feel connected to him? Does his job require him to spend so much time at work? Is it possible for him to spend less time at work and more time with you? I get the feeling that you feel second place to his work. Maybe you two could plan a date night. You care about and in essence, love him, but you don't feel loved in the capacity that you need to. You are to be commended for seeking advice and trying to regain or obtain the life that you envisioned living. Keep us updated because we care.

Thank you "Euphoric" I am getting lots of lovely replies which are really helping.

I have tried several lubes including one that seemed very good from my Doctor, it's only problem was, it would create some kind of reaction inside of me (collect dead skin cells I think) and create a lumpy discharge, a bit like milk gone off. This did not appeal at all. The other issue is, by the time I am "ready" for penetrative sex, my hubby has gone limp again. So it's a frustrating situation. Also I think I am allergic to the latex in condoms. Not to mention these being a fumble to find and put on!! It's hardly sexy or sensual is it.

I would like him to have a vasectomy as I feel we could be a bit more spontaneous. But he refuses to "allow anyone near him with a knife" AND he doesn't want to go through "all that pain" if our sex life is not going to change.

As for trying new things (within reason) we are both quite open minded so do live out fantasies from time to time.