[Britth89]

I was talking to my friend yesterday about how we r both virgins and how most guys over the age 18 do not want to have sex with a virgin. My friend being 21 and me being 20, and both single at the moment, we have heard many horror stories of girls bleeding or crying or whatever and the thought of losing it to a guy that doesn't want to deal with that would just devistate us. So she just blurted out that sometimes she just wants to get it over with by using a toy and seeing how that works out because then trchnically she wouldn't be concidered a virgin and she would have an idea of what it feels like and it wouldn't be so embarressing.

So I don't know what to say to something like that. Have you heard of anyone doing this? What do you think of such an idea?
And what can I tell my friend to make her feel better about the virgin thing?

[mr.mansview]

a toy will not take away your virginity..the definition of virgin (unless it has changed from when i was a teenager) is a person who has not experienced sexual intercourse with a member of the opposite sex..tell your friend that a women's virginity is to be treasured (at least it used to be) until they find a man they care about or love..

[Hopeless Dork]

Breaking her hyman is what she will technically be doing, not "losing her virginity" but I don't see why that would be a bad idea if she is curious, why not? When she does fall in love she will still be able to say the man is the first man she is having sex with. A hymen can be broken accidentally anyway, not always because of penis penetration.

If she wants to do it, its safe (she can't get pregnant or disease) she can stop whenever she wants to, etc. Its a much better route than going and just grabbing any bobby joe at the bar to take home and 'get it over with' etc.

I am sure a man would enjoy just as much being the first man she ever has inside as he would being the one that tears that little peice of flesh etc.

Virginity (for adult women, of course) is so overrated and a fairly sexist concept.. that some how for some reason women should be "pure" until love while men don't have to be makes my skin crawl. Women are more than just their hymen, their worth is in their heart not in having that 'new car' appeal.

[SinisterUrge]

Without a maidenhead (aka. hymen) you're not a maiden = Not a virgin. Don't listen to people who tell you 'rape doesn't count' or 'sex with toys doesn't count'. Its really simple, if you have an intact hymen, you're a virgin. If your hymen is broken, even from something non-sexual, you are not a virgin.

[WildChild]

The word virgin originally meant an independant woman, a woman who stands on her own. I suppose that got twisted or extended to include a woman who could take care of her own sexual needs and then to a woman who hadn't had sex - at least not with a man. Men being the arbitrators of all things for several thousand years, determined that so long as the hymen was intact the woman was "pure" and virginal.

[rcoreyus]

When you have people posting from multiple countries, arguing over definitions is a bit silly. Word meanings are culturally dependent.

[pureromancebystacie]

CONGRATS to her for being a VIRGIN! I say there is no better way to satisfy the curiosity than on your own time! The best way to explore your body and find your likes and dislikes is by yourself! Have fun & enjoy MASTURBATION IS NATURAL!

[Iseulda]

Without a maidenhead (aka. hymen) you're not a maiden = Not a virgin. Don't listen to people who tell you 'rape doesn't count' or 'sex with toys doesn't count'. Its really simple, if you have an intact hymen, you're a virgin. If your hymen is broken, even from something non-sexual, you are not a virgin.

I did a search for definitions of 'virgin' and got the following list:

•a person who has never had sex
•Virgo: (astrology) a person who is born while the sun is in Virgo
•being used or worked for the first time; "virgin wool"
•Virgo: the sixth sign of the zodiac; the sun is in this sign from about August 23 to September 22
•pure: in a state of sexual virginity; "pure and vestal modesty"; "a spinster or virgin lady"; "men have decreed that their women must be pure and virginal"
•A Virgin (or maiden) is, originally, a woman who has never had sexual intercourse. Virginity is the state of being a virgin. It is derived from the Latin virgo, which means "sexually inexperienced woman", used typically of adolescents, but also of older women, and even goddesses.

There's no mention of hymens at all. The state of the hymen can, in some circumstances, be used to test to see if a woman might be a virgin - if it is there (untorn) she is, if it isn't there (or is torn) it is inconclusive. But there is no official mention of the hymen in any of the definitions I can find. In a medical dictionary I found a line 'the classic finding in [female] virgins is an intact hymen' but nothing about that being a requirement.

Many women, as mentioned by other posters, tear their hymens in totally non-sexual activities, such as horse-riding - do you really believe, for example, that a 12 year old girl who has torn her hymen through horse-riding is not a virgin? I certainly don't.

You are, of course, entitled to your opinion on your own virginity but I'm particularly upset at your line "Don't listen to people who tell you 'rape doesn't count' " - Think of the pain you could be causing to a rape victim reading that. Rape is not a sexual experience - it is a violent crime. A woman or girl who has been raped or sexually assaulted is not sexually experienced, regardless of the state of her hymen.

I don't wish to tell you or anyone else what to think. As I say, you are certainly entitled to think of victims of sexual crime as non-virgins but those people are also entitled to think of themselves as virgins, and that may be hugely important to their self-esteem and recovery.

[pureromancebystacie]

I did a search for definitions of 'virgin' and got the following list:

•a person who has never had sex
•Virgo: (astrology) a person who is born while the sun is in Virgo
•being used or worked for the first time; "virgin wool"
•Virgo: the sixth sign of the zodiac; the sun is in this sign from about August 23 to September 22
•pure: in a state of sexual virginity; "pure and vestal modesty"; "a spinster or virgin lady"; "men have decreed that their women must be pure and virginal"
•A Virgin (or maiden) is, originally, a woman who has never had sexual intercourse. Virginity is the state of being a virgin. It is derived from the Latin virgo, which means "sexually inexperienced woman", used typically of adolescents, but also of older women, and even goddesses.

There's no mention of hymens at all. The state of the hymen can, in some circumstances, be used to test to see if a woman might be a virgin - if it is there (untorn) she is, if it isn't there (or is torn) it is inconclusive. But there is no official mention of the hymen in any of the definitions I can find. In a medical dictionary I found a line 'the classic finding in [female] virgins is an intact hymen' but nothing about that being a requirement.

Many women, as mentioned by other posters, tear their hymens in totally non-sexual activities, such as horse-riding - do you really believe, for example, that a 12 year old girl who has torn her hymen through horse-riding is not a virgin? I certainly don't.

You are, of course, entitled to your opinion on your own virginity but I'm particularly upset at your line "Don't listen to people who tell you 'rape doesn't count' " - Think of the pain you could be causing to a rape victim reading that. Rape is not a sexual experience - it is a violent crime. A woman or girl who has been raped or sexually assaulted is not sexually experienced, regardless of the state of her hymen.

I don't wish to tell you or anyone else what to think. As I say, you are certainly entitled to think of victims of sexual crime as non-virgins but those people are also entitled to think of themselves as virgins, and that may be hugely important to their self-esteem and recovery.

I totally agree with you!

[Hopeless Dork]

Without a maidenhead (aka. hymen) you're not a maiden = Not a virgin. Don't listen to people who tell you 'rape doesn't count' or 'sex with toys doesn't count'. Its really simple, if you have an intact hymen, you're a virgin. If your hymen is broken, even from something non-sexual, you are not a virgin.

You had to know you were going to catch heck for that statement When does a man lose his virginity? Or.. wait.. men were never virgins because they don't have an intact hymen... or even a hymen at all.

To say 'you are not a vigin' if x and y and z, while just stating your opinion (not fact by any means) on the definition.. it comes across as demeaning and insensitive.

I lost my hymen way before puberty, by a finger of an abuser. I had no concept of virginity or what that meant. When I had sex years later (with a total jerk that used me but thats neither here nor there, I am just trying to say that I am not picking and chosing the best sexual experience to say yes, that was my first time), it was him I gave my virginity to. The first man I chose to have sex with.

Most men, are evolved enough to realize that virginity status is irrelevent, and a presense of a hymen, even more so irrelevent.