[WildChild]

Always the man's fault.

You do tickle me, sometimes one would think you'd been torn to shreds by harpies at some point in your long disappointed life.

If a woman does it in lieu of a partner, she's not satisfied (which somehow is because of the man even if the woman won't tell him what she likes), she has been sexually repressed by her environment, (which happens to be dominated by men) or there is something missing emotionally in the relationship (which also becomes the man's fault). These are the common rationalizations from the women's side.

Right or wrong it can be a difficult subject area to boach. I was trying to give some feel for why she might be skittish.

If a woman wants some black stilletos, she'll go into credit card debt for em. But if she wants sex she won't ask? That doesn't make sense.

Now who's generallizing and stereotyping? Hummm? The only thing I've gone into debt over is for my kids or to keep the car running. But one is a matter of just herself, the other involves someone else. Get turned down enough times - you quit overtly initiating.

Recognizing and defying double standards - rather than hiding behind them is the way to progress.

Absolutely, Since we didn't start with a level playing field that will require some effort.

OP - i'm assuming you can please her. But if you can't, you have no ground to stand on, and you better learn.

We certainly agree here. But there's that communication again. Darn old communication, always getting in the way!

[Guest]

You do tickle me, sometimes one would think you'd been torn to shreds by harpies at some point in your long disappointed life.

One thing I've learned in my long disappointing life is to sympathize with those less fortunate than I. There seem to be a lot of them.

[WildChild]

.LOL.

[Miya]

Though the disappointment and feeling like you can never win come from constantly striving to acquire "things" in most cases. I've seen some of the most wretched areas of the world and and met some of the most genuinely happy people there I've ever seen.

I empathize with everyone because I know we all experience pain in one form or another, but I especially sympathize with people who don't even have enough to eat from day to day, no clean water, no sanitation facilities, etc.

So you're right that there are a lot of people less fortunate than you (or me or many on this site or others since we all have or have access to computers, know how to read and write, have some shelter).

Ok, sorry to ramble, it was just a thought in my head that sometimes we don't realize how fortunate we really are to be healthy and have food and shelter.

[chaosphynx]

OP - i'm assuming you can please her. But if you can't, you have no ground to stand on, and you better learn. [/QUOTE]


Well yeah, most of the time (I must be a non-typical male, according to what I read around here)....thats another frustrating part....I am more usually concerned if she "goes" over me. If I go first, I ALWAYS tried to make sure she was satisified as well.

[Guest]

.LOL.

It's sad that when a woman's point of view is given - she's a victim.

When the man's exact counterpoint is presented - it's called bitter.

....just another double standard.

[rcoreyus]

IMHO, and completely gender neutral:

If you want sex and your partner doesn't at the time, you should feel free to masturbate and / or watch porn.

If you want sex and you partner also does, then you should involve them. Many people enjoy watching / helping their partners masturbate. If your partner doesn't know how to bring you to orgasm quickly (and that is what you want), show / tell them.

If you just want a quick release from masturbation without bothering with your partner, that is OK - but only as long as you are happy to have sex with them whenever they want.

I think it is not OK to deny your partner sex and masturbate.

If you don't feel like sex and your partner does - it would be nice to make an effort to do something to please them anyway - and they should do the same for you.

[chaosphynx]

Alright, but the fact that she actively waited for me to go upstairs to do that while I was home, never even tried coming on to me, (I never rejected her 4.5 years) , says she always wanted sex, and she "went" most of the time when we did......

that is what is bothering me sooo much about this, she was the one who always wanted things to be "open and honest", which I truly thought we were....and now its taken even 3-4 conversations to get the version of the truth that it is now. It makes me feel like I dont know her, or at least what I thought I knew was way off, which brings on more feelings of "if, that, & then"

[Texinator]

Could be that she just wanted to rub one out real quick but was either too embarrassed to tell you or afraid it might hurt your feelings if you knew.

Unfortunately the idea that 'nice girls' don't initiate, don't masturbate, etcetera, is strong in a lot of people.

[Guest]

Alright, but the fact that she actively waited for me to go upstairs to do that while I was home, never even tried coming on to me, (I never rejected her 4.5 years) , says she always wanted sex, and she "went" most of the time when we did......

I caught on to that...I'm not sure anyone else did....

That would be a nasty feeling. And I think it's pretty underhanded, personally, but you're gonna get no love here regarding this topic.

Work on it together. Let her know maybe the reason you aren't always able to get the job done with her is because she's masturbated beforehand.

Figure out what is acceptable to both of you and move on with life. Time will heal your what ifs.