[CHANDLERS WISH]

We do actually do all the work in bed, and I think a lot of women forget that.

Funny, I homed in on that too HD Out of the entire post.

teikyo... Let me firstly say as an "older woman" balony.. You can not put us in boxes and you can not put men in boxes.. I think alot of "people" don't get that.

You do not do all the work in bed, ( you might) and I'm gaining real quick that's your frustration as you have fantasies that aren't full filled, yet you do alot of "work"..

It's not about work? It's about pleasing a person to gain mutual responses. So it goes both ways.

I'm not going to go into detail about my sex life here as it's my business but I can tell you, that I give alot and I know alot of women do, and sometimes for nothing in return, and he will do the same, actually he always gets the "return"..

Guys are also very visual when it comes to sex. Women are very much into physical intimacy. So we need the visual aids.

Yes, woman are more "emotional" they want to feel a connection, bond, intimacy. But, if your suggesting that men are not that way? Your wrong. Sounds to me that your talking from a perspective of "youth"... Young men are visual, they only want visualisation and sex... Older "men" want what we want, raw passion, lust, intimacy, love and a darn good time in the bedroom.

It'd be nice to find a girl who's on exactly the same page as me:

I think that is your problem... You haven't and consequently, you seem to believe that all you "give" is purely and only and simply to get back what you want and it aint happening and so you get frustrated.

Welcome to the "club" of most people who "settle" as well as don't "compromise" and get a good percentage of what they want out of their sexuality, sensuality.

Now, I think you should also use the word "opinion" because your making statements that clearly are not true.. Don't ring true, and won't ring true to alot of women on this Forum.

I do not fantasize about Brad Pitt or Joe Blow... I am too excited making love to the man I love, adore, lust after

And, I do not masterbate every day, with or without sex...

Stop generalising, it won't cut it on this Forum, it will come back to bite you in the bum which isn't quite what you wanted when you mentioned Anal:P

CW

[Hopeless Dork]

We do actually do all the work in bed, and I think a lot of women forget that.

Just ... LOL. I can't even dignify that with a lengthier response.

[cuff]

"After reading such stories, articles (even newspaper articles) and opinions I must say I'm very disappointed, if not disgusted, in men."

Wow. I have to tell you, your post sent up warning flags to me. First you mention lots of research but don't cite anything in particular- telling us to go check ourselves. So I really don't know the veracity of your claim.

Yeah, those are odd claims without substantiated facts to back it up.

A man choosing masturbation over sex? Something is wrong in the relationship. Their wife/girlfriend isn't pleasing them in bed, bored with sex with their partner, not attracted to their partner any longer. There is some reason. It's easy to look outside the relationship and blame something else than trying to face the reason.

I'd think it would be easier for a man to masturbate next to his SO, or have his SO masturbate him. I just never expected a certain number of men to prefer doing it by themselves than with their partner (when their partner is available). I'm not against masturbation, I just don't see the point in it when there's a willing partner available. Not in the slightest.

Thank you for your input.

If my SO said go ahead, you can do me in the , I'd MUCH rather do that than masturbate. lol

Just wanted to add that smiley so I could change it to subscribe to the thread.

Please, if there are any men against these views out there, do post here.

You do realize women masturbate, too, right? MOST of the girls I know say they do it every day. Even if they have sex every day. Changing times, I guess. Anyway, masturbation is healthy, and who can turn you on better than you? Seriously. No, men are not monogamous by nature, but neither are women. You might think you are, but that's not the way either sex is programmed. If we were, we'd surely have died as a species a long time ago. Only modern society forced these changes on people.

To be quite honest about the cheating part, why is it a big deal that we fantasize when we masturbate? So do women. Would you rather have us rub one out thinking about the barista at Starbucks, or have us find a way to have sex with her? I would never get mad if a woman said she thought about Brad Pitt while she played with herself. Good for her. Doesn't bother me at all.

We do actually do all the work in bed, and I think a lot of women forget that. It's frustrating to hear comments about how vibrators never give up. They run on batteries. We have to fill vascular tissue with blood, we have to do hundreds of lunges, and we have to do it to the specifications that the woman has. If a man can't stay hard women say he has an issue. If a woman can't stay wet they say the man didn't keep her interested. Either way women blame men for everything in the bedroom.

If a woman cums first it's perfectly acceptable. If a man cums first it's called premature. You girls put a lot of pressure on us. Like with oral sex. You have no problem telling us how to do it, what speed, or if it isn't working. If we don't like how you're doing it most of you will say something like "Well maybe I shouldn't do it then." No matter what we have to accept all the responsibility in bed.

With our fantasies, some things some women don't like. I like anal sex with girls. Due to my size most girls won't do it with me. Am I really supposed to not think about doing it when I masturbate? Why? I like cumming on a girl's face. Some girls don't like that, and again, it's something I think about alone. I have all sorts of fantasies. Public sex, group sex, etc. It'd be nice to find a girl who's on exactly the same page as me: anything goes any time, but it isn't very realistic. So whilst masturbating it's perfectly feasible to do those things in my imagination. Guys are also very visual when it comes to sex. Women are very much into physical intimacy. So we need the visual aids.

And then there's the fact that we do all that work for a 30 second ejaculation while women have a true orgasm and feel that pleasure for hours sometimes. I think it's fair we get our carrot, too.

[WildChild]

I've been told it's just stress release.

[rcoreyus]

You are probably right, but if I were to use a prostitute, I'd still fell self conscious about poor performance. Maybe that's one of the reasons I have no interest in prostitutes.

If it is stress over performance though, I'd expect the men who preferred masturbation to be the ones who cared about their partner's pleasure. Those that didn't care wouldn't have any reason to feel stress: it would just be a "warm body".

Maybe people are very different in what the expect from sex. If it is just a way to have an orgasm, then masturbation (or a prostitute to simply simulate you) might be preferred. I wonder if there are many women who feel this way about sex - sounds like there might be from some of the posts here

I think there is no performance pressure with prostitutes, its all about the guy's pleasure in the same way as masturbation. They can come early, they can take a while (if they pay extra obviously) they don't have to even attempt to make her orgasm, they don't have to worry about their size, they don't have to worry about cuddeling or intimacy...

so in many ways sex with a prostitute is a lot like masturbation... but also has the added benefit of getting to hear what they want to hear (the moans, the oh this is the best, if they ask that of the prostitute) without putting forth the effort to gain that response authentically.

I think questioning if men prefer masturbation to intimate sex with a partner is different than questioning if a man might prefer masturbation to a warm body that is there for them to do as they please as it is with a prostitute.

[stressed]

Wow. I have to tell you, your post sent up warning flags to me. First you mention lots of research but don't cite anything in particular- telling us to go check ourselves. So I really don't know the veracity of your claim.

Well, I cannot post any links and I cannot scan and post foreign (to you) newspapers, can I? Links are not allowed here. Next time I come across something in particular I will certainly PM you about it. If you are implying that I came up with all that by myself, because I have nothing better to do, then you are wrong.

Secondly- why are you disgusted in men? Even if most men felt this way, as long as the man you are with prefers you to his hand, why would it matter?

I'm not saying most men feel this way, but on the other hand it would be hard for those who do to admit it. Why it matters to me (since you're making it personal) is because:

1) My man has also preferred his hand due to insecurities in the past.
2) If I ever get to be with another man in my life I will have that to be concerned about as well.
3) I find it an interesting observation, to which I am against. I would also be against women who prefer masturbation to their men, I am just not that particularly interested in women since I don't live with one.

Look- as a long time man, I see the pro's and con's here- masturbation is easy, relatively convenient and far less work- all things you mention. But would I chose it over hot sex with my wife of over 20 years- not a chance.

I'd think it would be easier for a man to masturbate next to his SO, or have his SO masturbate him. I just never expected a certain number of men to prefer doing it by themselves than with their partner (when their partner is available). I'm not against masturbation, I just don't see the point in it when there's a willing partner available. Not in the slightest.

Thank you for your input.

[Hopeless Dork]

I think there is no performance pressure with prostitutes, its all about the guy's pleasure in the same way as masturbation. They can come early, they can take a while (if they pay extra obviously) they don't have to even attempt to make her orgasm, they don't have to worry about their size, they don't have to worry about cuddeling or intimacy...

so in many ways sex with a prostitute is a lot like masturbation... but also has the added benefit of getting to hear what they want to hear (the moans, the oh this is the best, if they ask that of the prostitute) without putting forth the effort to gain that response authentically.

I think questioning if men prefer masturbation to intimate sex with a partner is different than questioning if a man might prefer masturbation to a warm body that is there for them to do as they please as it is with a prostitute.