[jns]

I came across an article in the NY times on low/ no sex marriages - it was published a yr ago I think, but comments were still being submitted. The comment were from men overwhelmingly and they gave short narratives of their lives of pain and desperation. I read many of them but they were so amazingly similar.

My impression from reading these men’s narratives, is that sexual desire for the women they love sets off a complex array of emotions. Sex initiates and sustains an important emotional bond. For these men, sex confirms the woman’s love and attraction, affirms his manhood, provides a physical release, and pleasure. Sexual frustration seems to create a crisis in confidence, doubts about masculinity and the partners continued love. I don’t really think many woman understand.

If only the wives of these men appreciated the complexities of their husbands desire for them. Men apparently look to the partner to meet most of his emotional needs, not to his male friends. If these men are to be believed, their bond to their wives is sustained by sex at frequent enough intervals. Being cut off seems to be equivalent of isolating a woman from her friends and family. If that is the case, then sex is a very big deal in a love relationship; it seems to be a man’s lifeline not just a mechanical release and pleasure.

I am not so convinced that emotional component and pleasure are of equal value for men from what I see. it seems to be more like 80% pleasure and release with a small emotional component. Nevertheless, sex seems to be a little more than fun and games with an easily accessible woman for a man in love, there is an emotional part too. The strength of the emotions depends on the man i believe.

Allie, I think you are talking about an article titled "When Sex Leaves the Marriage". If you went through a major number of the responses, you are better than me at such research.

[Allie602]

I did read many of them JNS there were so many and the feelings expressed by the men was as if they were copying from the same scrip. I have to say that I really did not understand or even think that sex was more than a mechanical release and pleasure for a man and that love was completely divorced from this. I though sex in marriage was regarded as a bonus, they could rely on regular sex and not have to worry about going out to get it. I have heard men say this so maybe it is true for some men. These men however expressed a completely diff set of emotions. A few men even took antidepressant to suppress their desire, some said they could not wait to get older and it would go away and some expressed self loathing. I stopped reading after a wile it was too difficult and emotional.

This is a horrible problem, if sex were the most important thing for these men they could easily get it, many of them said they did not cheat or had a short affair but could not handle deceiving and possibly hurting their wives. If a woman sees sex for men as just pleasure and herself as a convenient reliable source of pleasure then she can easily dismiss his desire.

I wonder if she would do the same if she knew the true nature and role of sex for a man who loves one woman and makes a commitment. If she knew that for him sex takes on another dimension. It is tangled up with the love he feels and it is vital to the maintenance of the health and well being of the man she loves. I wonder if men even realize this. We need so much more to understand each other and ourselves in a relationship.

Men seem to look for the emotional bond in a LTR, a bond they cannot depend on anyone else to give them except the woman he chooses and sex is they way they seal that emotional bond and keep it when they pick someone they feel will be able to protect and nurture his heart. I don't think I would have gotten that except by reading those post. Maybe some should download them and make it required reading for both genders. Sounds overly romantic but I think it's true. Can some men pipe in.

OP - Would your wife be willing to read a book with you. His needs Her Needs is a good one. The point is that she has to understand and change her thinking may get her to read those post from NYT..

[liminal]

Here is a speculation. Maybe when she was in a relationship based on sex she felt like she was basically being used by him for HIS needs and not hers. Now that she is in a marriage she wants the marriage to mean more than that. So not having sex with you is a way of controlling her feelings of being used. Maybe you could talk with her about ways of helping her overcome those feelings of fear and insecurity that keep both you and HER from being physically intimate in a relationship?

[liminal]

Although I haven't read the NYT's article I can definitively relate to it. I think its far more than just a physical thing because I have a very limited ability to experience physical pleasure but that does not mean that I don't have a VERY powerful urge for a physical connection that provides feelings of warmth and intimacy.

[jns]

I think that many men have this idea of a virtuous man and want to be a virtuous man. Sex with the wife is virtuous and is also bonding and intimacy together. If it decreases drastically, most will do what they can to live with the new rules, but they will not like them.They do not like maintenance sex or pity sex as it is missing the bonding and intimacy. Since this was an important part of the marriage, either before the fact or promised, they see removing sex as sabotage unless they are no longer interested in sex. If a woman is willing to sabotage the relationship that way, what else will she do (rhetorical)?

This is not to say men always know how to go about things correctly. Many times they are selfish, a character defect. They may be unlearned in the ways of sex. They may let religion or other "moral" beliefs interfere. They may not be able to emphasize. They may be deceitful. Plus hundreds of other problems.

[Allie602]

Here is a speculation. Maybe when she was in a relationship based on sex she felt like she was basically being used by him for HIS needs and not hers. Now that she is in a marriage she wants the marriage to mean more than that. So not having sex with you is a way of controlling her feelings of being used. Maybe you could talk with her about ways of helping her overcome those feelings of fear and insecurity that keep both you and HER from being physically intimate in a relationship?

This seems so true. I think the way she felt in her past relationships has colored how she feels now. If she felt used, she has not gotten over that it's still there and you will unfortunately bear the brunt of it until you address it directly. Some kindness and understanding may be in order.

Don't feel that she needs to do with you what she experimented with her Ex - it's not fair to her. She has a right to try things and then decide what she wants. Just because she experimented with different things, she is not obliged to do it with you. That's why it's called experimentation you try and cull out what you don't want.

She might also have bad feelings about some of the things she did due to judgements that she has heard from men. On the hand, men want their SO to be carefree in sex with him but she comes to the relationship concerned about what he will think of her. After all, men are careless to call women ****s and skanks and think that those names have no effect.

Women develop their sexuality picking up cues from the way each man treat them in and out of relationships. The consequences of having names for female sexual freedom is that your partner has been socialized to be careful not to be placed in that category in your eyes and maybe lose your respect and love. You reap what you sow.

[liminal]

Whether its being naked together or if its sharing an intense mutual appreciation for the subtleties of Kantian aesthetics, I need closeness, intimacy, and affection. If I was treated like I was just a wallet or I felt like I was in a "contract" between two separate interests then I would be very hurt and upset, if my wife stopped showing the same degree of affection after I married her.

Their is a second thing to consider. Even if a man rejects the values that make sex "virtuous" he may suspect that his wife doesn't reject those values and that she secretly has no respect for him. When I was growing up the way women talked about men and sex always gave me the impression that women looked at all men as the same.

[Allie602]

Their is a second thing to consider. Even if a man rejects the values that make sex "virtuous" he may suspect that his wife doesn't reject those values and that she secretly has no respect for him. When I was growing up the way women talked about men and sex always gave me the impression that women looked at all men as the same.

I don't understand - do you mean that his libertarian views on sex will illicit disrespect from a wife that hold more conservative values? And that when he wants her to be more free sexually that she is resistant and thinks "just like a man sex, sex, sex ugg"?

[liminal]

Sorry I used the word "virtuous" without explaining that I was responding to jns's post.

"I think that many men have this idea of a virtuous man and want to be a virtuous man. Sex with the wife is virtuous and is also bonding and intimacy together."

So no that not what I meant.

[JonDoe]

As a married man of 20 years, I can honestly tell you that sex has much more to do with intimacy and bonding then getting my rocks off. Masturbation can efficiently achieve the latter. However, the tender touch of a woman softens a man's heart and soul to the very core. It tames the beast within every young man. It gives him the confidence to face the challenges in his career, knowing that he has a beautiful, loving, caring partner in his corner. Without it, tension builds, and a man can become cold, emotionless, and ironically less confident of himself outside the bedroom.