[Texasred]

...Abuse by either partner should never be tolerated. Meeting your partners need and then being flatout denide to have yours considered is abuse in my opinion.

Right you are!
Too right.

[Frustr8eed]

Right, where to start. Haven't been able to get on for a day or 2.

Thanks again to all that have replied.

ska1311 - The controlling thing could be a reason, and it seems when she's not in control then I get more action. For example when I'm ill, tired, busy with something and so not able to focus much attention on her, she shows me a lot more attention - both kissing and sexual. She and her ex (first and only other partner) were in a long distance relationship. He would visit every couple of weeks, want sex x amount of times while he was there, go back to where he lived and barely speak to her in between visits. A few months ago she admitted that it probably wasn't a proper relationship but being 17 and in love she'd do anything for him - if he wanted sex, he got it, because otherwise she feared he'd leave her (she has self-esteem issues, plus he was always chatting up other women). Extending that theory, she's my first & only partner and knows I'd do anything for her. So when I ask for sex she probably sees it as a controlling thing in a similar way that her ex controlled her, but she knows I love her too much to leave and so refuses. If you think about what I said earlier - when she hasn't got/can't have my attention, I suddenly get a lot more of hers.

SoCoKen & TexasRed - I am worried about the next 50-60 years, but then I love her too much to leave her (even though in this case she drives me crazy)!

oxy-moron - I understand it's probably not going to change, which is probably why I've been searching for advice at 2am most mornings! She absolutely loves the whole penis/clitoral stimulation, but it's getting her to do it in the first place. If she doesn't want sex then it's legs locked together, batting me away etc.

Thanks again.

[Guest]

Frustr8eed,

It sounds to me like the problem lies with you. Most women who do not like sex are really saying they hate bad sex. I just recently had a conversation with a young woman who told me that she hated her former boyfriend going down on her because he didn't know what he was doing; hence, he frustrated the out of her. Once she found a man who knew what he was doing, she couldn't get enough oral sex.

Were I in your shoes, I would ask her what it is that she wants you to do. If you do well what she wants you to do you might find yourself having more sex than you can handle.

Finally, study your girls body. Pay close attention to her moves, groans, sighs: everything single thing she does while you're in bed. If you take time you will know when she is seconds away from orgasm and what she wants you to do to take her there. If you get good, she will not have to say a word to you as long as you know how to read her.


Good luck,

Taos

[Frustr8eed]

Hi Taos,

Thanks. I wish it was as simple as me being bad in bed, but alas, it's not. I've asked her time & time again if it is - that's the first thing most men would think, but she's assured me time & time again that it's not.

As for studying her body - I do. Like I said earlier in the thread though, there's no groaning, no moving, no indication whatsoever that she's getting close. Believe me, I've studied her!

Some updates since the original post: Wednesday night I touched her, she cleaned up, got back in bed and turned & faced the other way. This left me feeling the same as usual, until she turned round because she was too hot/couldn't sleep. I thought 'what's there to lose?' and put her hand on my penis, and asked her to masturbate me & I'd go and finish on my own. She did, and the same thing happened Thursday morning. Thursday night we got in bed, I thought I'd try the same again. She ended up giving me the best oral sex she's ever given me. Well, that was until she repeated the gesture last night. She even seemed enthusiastic, and didn't moan about anything. It's her time of the month at the minute, so unfortunately doing anything to/for/with her is out of the question.

What's changed? Well on Wednesday I told her she wouldn't be getting endless cuddles unless I started to get more of what I want, and have kept to that. She's even been giving me kisses - more than just a quick peck on the lips. I don't know how long it'll last, and I'm under no illusions that this is anything more than simply painting over the cracks. I'm still interested in hearing others' thoughts on how best to solve this. I'm not a fan of 'you're not getting this until I get that', but it seems to be that now that I've taken away the thing she likes the most - cuddles - that I'm starting to get more of what I want. Which saddens me.

[CHANDLERS WISH]

I have just read this entire thread.

Her first she was 17, he was just horny wanted sex, sex was sex..he treated her like carp so left her giving everything she had, to gain attention, love.....

Honeymoon stages do go but you have to be mature and know how to keep it alive, not many people do.

Oxy has some good insight.

She seeks attention but when she has it, she disses it and doesn't give back she has what she wants. When you tell her pfttt, make her in-secure she will lose you she will do what you want, anything not to lose you.

Here you are, giving as a man should and it's like , I'm not interested.

Yet, you state "Well on Wednesday I told her she wouldn't be getting endless cuddles unless I started to get more of what I want" and she went all over you..

This is so stupid yet so sterio type of young girls, have a man whom cares, gives, you don't want him, have a man whom rejects, treats you bad, you will do anything for him....

She wants to be controlled. She's not abusive at all, all she knew was a guy who took, she can't accept she is worth anything therefore can't appreciate what she has, she wants control, to be rejected, to feel un-attractive, to feel un-loved, yet, loved if well it aint happening unless, that she relates to as love...

This is difficult because that means you have to treat her mean to keep her keen but also you have to break through this in-security of her feeling worthless and realising she is loved..

She as I said equates love to being controlled.

[jns]

I have just read this entire thread.

Her first she was 17, he was just horny wanted sex, sex was sex..he treated her like carp so left her giving everything she had, to gain attention, love.....

Honeymoon stages do go but you have to be mature and know how to keep it alive, not many people do.

Oxy has some good insight.

She seeks attention but when she has it, she disses it and doesn't give back she has what she wants. When you tell her pfttt, make her in-secure she will lose you she will do what you want, anything not to lose you.

Here you are, giving as a man should and it's like , I'm not interested.

Yet, you state "Well on Wednesday I told her she wouldn't be getting endless cuddles unless I started to get more of what I want" and she went all over you..

This is so stupid yet so sterio type of young girls, have a man whom cares, gives, you don't want him, have a man whom rejects, treats you bad, you will do anything for him....

She wants to be controlled. She's not abusive at all, all she knew was a guy who took, she can't accept she is worth anything therefore can't appreciate what she has, she wants control, to be rejected, to feel un-attractive, to feel un-loved, yet, loved if well it aint happening unless, that she relates to as love...

This is difficult because that means you have to treat her mean to keep her keen but also you have to break through this in-security of her feeling worthless and realising she is loved..

She as I said equates love to being controlled.

I think CW has hit the target about her wanting to be controlled to feel loved. It also lets her put aside her feelings of things being icky, because she is not the one in charge, and so she just gets into it.

[oxy-moron]

I think CW and jns are probably correct- its is pretty sad really though- in a perfect world you would hope generosity and good behaviour would be rewarded with loving behaviour in return.
As usual life does not work like that.
Maybe you could look at some mild bondage stuff.
Maybe tie her hands and blind fold her - make her feel like you are in control.
Maybe cuddles as a reward instead of given freely.

[Texasred]

Maybe you should just look for somebody normal; catering to the whims of a maladjusted partner can get pretty wearing as the years go by - unless it's a project you're looking for, and not an equal partnership.

[Frustr8eed]

Just a little update to this. Thanks again to those that have offered advice.

I tried the 'controlling' her thing. It worked for a few days but alas, we're back to 'normal'.

She's had a few job interviews over the past week or so. Yesterday she asked me to touch her to relax her. Fine, it'll calm you down, I thought. It was like touching up a doll. She sort of laid her back half on me, and faced the other way. For the entire time. After that I said to her about it, she replied 'I don't like looking at you, it puts me off.' Now obviously the conversation veered towards me saying 'Oh so I'm hideous looking am I?' in a joking manner, but she apparently meant she needs to concentrate to reach orgasm. She doesn't like kissing etc because it puts her off and stops her from concentrating.

So I thought today I'd have another go. For something different I suggested blindfolding her...to my amazement she agreed. I start to stroke her all over, tease her etc. She all of a sudden comes out with 'Isn't it weird how I don't like kissing? It's just all that bacteria, and..eugh'. Again, it was like touching up a doll. I decided to go down on her and she told me not to, because 'It's mucky down there.' She showered this morning and I'm not one to let a slight (and I mean slight) odour get in the way of fun.

I've asked her a few times now if it's going to be like this for the next 50+ years. She says probably, but why not talk to her about it instead of getting annoyed by it. Obviously missing the point that I've often spoken to her about it - calmly - and things have changed for a few days, and then reverted back to normal.

I honestly do not know what to do anymore. She's perfect in most other ways....but I'm a 22 year old man, full of hormones and with a huge sex drive. It genuinely makes me upset when I think about it, and I'm miserable because of it. I've helped her a lot with preparing for her interviews, and today I asked her if she was going to dress up for me as some kind of reward. She said yes, but then she was 'tired' and on came the baggy pyjamas & dressing gown. I'm left sat here at 10 past 1 in the morning, wondering how to make things change.

[rcoreyus]

It may be just like this, or even worse, for the next 50+ years. My advice would be to get out now, it won't get any easier as time goes on.