[JonDoe]

My wife considered it groping, and would become upset with me, if during an extended hug I slowly moved one or both of my hands down her back and cupped or gently squeezed her bottom for a brief moment. I can understand that she may not want to take it further at the moment, but getting angry seems unwarranted and unkind. I think a more rational, and loving response would be to guide my hand up away from her bottom if she didn't want me to touch her there at that moment, which would avoid unnecessary arguments and undue stress. I can certainly imagine scenarios in a committed relationship when this would be unwelcomed, insensitive, and even inappropriate, but I'm talking about when two loving partners are sharing a moment of physical intimacy, regardless of whether either have the intention of it leading directly to sex.

Would you considering this groping in a committed relationship?

[atskitty2]

It is groping. Groping is groping, committed or not. I think you have a negative idea associated with the word groping, maybe? I can grope myself, even.

I can only guess, but I think what you're really asking, is whether it's ok, and whether your ex?-wife's response was ok?

[raindancer]

I don't know the real meaning of the word groping. I don't speak English.

Moving to the act, I can't understand why one would feel offended by it. I was quite surprised by your post, OP.

[JonDoe]

According to Wikipedia, when used in a sexual context, groping is touching or fondling another person in an unwelcome sexual way using the hands. The term generally has a negative connotation in many societies and may be considered sexual assault. Dictionary[dot]com does not include a negative connotation for groping, but other dictionaries use terms such as 'unwanted', 'unwelcome' or 'against their will'.

Regardless of the definition, I still think a much better response would have been to guide my hand up away from her bottom, thus avoiding an argument and hurt feelings. What do you think?

[effy2014]

I think it all depends on her state of mind at the time. My SO can be irritated by or see the same gesture as loving intimacy depending upon what she is dealing with at the time. Her reaction to it would depend upon that same mindset. I have been chastised and passionately kissed for doing similar things at different times. We are in tune so much of the time that I think she gets more irritated when I have not correctly identified the mood. In point of fact, I just like touching her.

You have also identified one of a series of life's double standards. If you did that to her (and I would welcome a grope from my SO at any time and any place), even in a loving way, an argument would ensue. I said that once to my SO and she looked at me and said "and?". I just accept the double standards as I learn about them.

[raindancer]

I think we know who we can be unkind to. I agree a much better response would be to guide your hand somewhere else, or just whisper in your ear it isn't the time, in a more friendly fashion.

I've remarked people snap at their partners quite easily, in ways they wouldn't dare do with others and wouldn't do to strangers. We allow ourselves to hurt the people we love the most, because familiarity also means we don't fear a rebuke. It's true between siblings and children/parents, but also within couples.

In the advanced level of the phenomenon, partners can be really mean to each other, getting in a pattern of abuse. It may start from very little things, but since you get no punishment for the misbehavior/incivility, you dare more, and more, and so it escalates. Please, don't misunderstand the word punishment. I mean that the offendee doesn't make a big problem of it, doesn't even complain of it.

In our world, women often get the hormonal excuse and the most understanding partners are the ones who will be made into a carpet. On the male part, men with stressful jobs get that excuse to get home and be rough and have understanding in return, because they have "the" excuse.

Abuse is abuse. I'm a woman too, and I have plenty of hormonal stuff going on. It is tough. But if I offend my man, I apologize. I don't offend people at work, or on the streets, public transport, etc. Why would it be OK if the offendee was my man? I don't think so.

If I'm the victim of abuse, I'll point it out, very gently, because I do understand a partner may be under pressure, stressed, etc. But I do point out that's abusive behavior and the fact we talk about it prevents it happening again. My current man is incapable of snapping at me, but I've had others with tempers in the far past.

I'm a very unorthodox woman and yet, all sorts of men have accepted me the way I am. Dialogue and candor do work. Respect is a big part of the equation. I'm still learning to be more respectful, for instance, at work. I have a very stressful job. I love it, but it is stressful, because of the public I work with. The demographics couldn't be worse. In my mind, only in my mind, sometimes I'm offensive, I snap at them. Only in my mind. But that is still a mistake. We're civilized, the most intelligent species on this planet. We can do better than to lose control.

All that to say that, yes, I do think the reaction is an over reaction, inappropriate, and that if I were the "victim" of it, I'd have a talk and make the other person involved see that what he/she is doing is a form of abuse. Snapping is abuse. We are too accepting of it.

[JonDoe]

I think it all depends on her state of mind at the time. My SO can be irritated by or see the same gesture as loving intimacy depending upon what she is dealing with at the time. Her reaction to it would depend upon that same mindset. I have been chastised and passionately kissed for doing similar things at different times.

Oh, I hear ya loud and clear. I know it all too well, except for the passionate kissing part because she didn't like kissing beyond a peck on the lips (see related thread).

For example, early one weekend afternoon, after I had just given my wife a 10 minute shoulder massage, she went upstairs for a shower. I waited until she was in the shower and soaped up, then I climbed in the shower with her for what I thought would be a nice surprise since we had nothing planned, or so I thought. However, she was extremely agitated and irate. According to her, she had scheduled an appointment to get her toenails painted with a girlfriend several hours later that afternoon, which she admittedly had not shared with me, and she didn't want to be rushed or late. That was it, nothing more, no deeper emotions involved. Rational or irrational? Try as I might, I can't come up with a rational explanation, and neither could she later that evening when I asked to talk about what happened. She claimed that she was not emotional from her cycle, not premenopausal, nor was she upset with me for anything else or even carrying a lot of stress, and according to her she was very relaxed from the shoulder massage. As always, she promised to try harder to be more in the moment in the future. Did she offer to make it up to me? Heck no! Not that day, not that week and not even that month. I was always responsible for getting her in the mood, initiating, foreplay, getting and maintaining an erection, and bringing us both to orgasm. What was her part? Being a woman and either accepting or, more often than not, rejecting my sexual advances.

Just to be perfectly clear for anyone reading this thread, this behavior didn't happen just once or even a few times, I am much thicker skinned than that. Over 25+ years, this and similar irrational reactions happened hundreds of times for various things. I could recite dozens of similar real-world scenarios that she either enjoyed or despised depending on her mindset at that exact moment in time. Unfortunately, no matter how hard I try, I have not yet mastered the art of mind reading.

[Lexhill]

JonDoe: I believe you action was intended loving, I do the same to my wife every now and then. She knows I love her bum and love touching it. I do however look at the moment to see if it's right. Her reaction to snap at you is completely wrong unless you always did it and she always told you to stop doing it(She should have said "please stop", and you should have listened to that). But for me it seems like you have lived in a unhealthy relationship. The reason is probably quite deep I do however wonder if all this snap's and yelling you ex did was always there or if they started at a later stage in you relationship.

I do believe you need to let her go. You seem to still care to much for her. For your own health forget her and how things where. Then find out who you are before you find a suitable women for that man.

I kinda react to your post because of the harsh messages. But I saw your first post and see where they are coming from. It seems like you have been snapped at so much for nothing. So you have created a self protecting behavior that can judge a little to harsh.

I know there are a lot of different people out there. and the world has a few narcissistic people. You should view a video on youtube of dr. phil confronting narcissistic personality's and see if you recognize something from you ex wife. Maybe this can help you to see if you've been a victim for unreasonable behavior.

[atskitty2]

Well, I just pulled my old-fashioned, Webster's hardback (remember paper books? ) Dictionary off the shelf & Webster's definition of groping has no negative implication, at least not in the 2007 printing I have.

I think you have a lot of healing to do. You're satisfying the sexual (physical) needs that were unmet for so many years, and now you're struggling to move on from this unhealthy relationship of 25 + years. Post about it here, accept our support as you move through the process of grieving the loss of something you valued. Get some professional counseling if you aren't already.

[Motorguy]

Well Jon, at that time you did this your wife was not in the mood for this type of behavior from you. So she was turn off by it all. But a quick apology would have been in order at that time. I would think it would have been over with. But your wife is still upset as you are just like it was no big deal. But for her it was inappropriate at that time for her. When you sit down and think about it you would agree as well. There is a time or place and you could have sense this. So you when it is the good time or place to do some groping as you would call it with wife then. I pretty sure I wouldn't do such a thing with my wife out of the blue as I never done it before.