[brown magic]

(link removed)

This was posted by a friend of mine on fb and of course its relevant given today's climate in Hollywood and elsewhere. Just wanted to get the views of real life women...how many of you have experienced painful sex and just kept quiet about it because you were expected to?

And how would you define "good" sex vs "bad" sex? What criteria makes a particular man a good or skillful lover?

Here's an excerpt from the article:

The real problem isn't that we — as a culture — don't sufficiently consider men's biological reality. The problem is rather that theirs is literally the only biological reality we ever bother to consider.

So let's actually talk bodies. Let's take bodies and the facts of sex seriouslyfor a change. And let's allow some women back into the equation, shall we? Because if you're going to wax poetic about male pleasure, you had better be ready to talk about its secret, unpleasant, ubiquitous cousin: female pain.

[Texasred]

Brown, I read that link before it was removed, and I can't say I've seen such a bunch of hogwash in a long time. Either the writer hates all men for some unexplained reason, or she has had no experience with men. Don't believe a word she had to say. Trust me, women do enjoy sex at *least* as much as men do, if not more, unless they have a medical issue of some sort.
My opinion: here's what makes a man a good lover: the willingness to pay attention to his lover's needs, see to her pleasure before his own, and the ability and willingness to communicate. And affection: sex is best when it's not a purely physical act, but is the expression of love and affection.

I know you haven't yet gotten a woman to reply, but be patient - someone will surely take issue with something I said and jump right in! :-)

[jns]

If you quote "The problem is rather that theirs is literally the only biological reality we ever bother to consider." in Google you may be able to find the original story. I found it. This is a response to a story by Katie Way on babe dot net about a date that "Grace" had with a celebrity that did not turn out as planned.

[WaveRider]

Their are times when women can legitimately blame men for their lack of sexual pleasure. This is especially true with younger dudes who haven't yet figured out that a whole lot of foreplay and clitoral stimulation is necessary for women to experience sexual pleasure. Younger dudes are generally reluctant to talk sex with their girlfriends. Apparently they believe that women don't talk sex. They're almost intimidated by naked women. As long as dudes get off, they think it's great sex. That part of their sex lives should be over by their early to mid-20's.

Women should seize the initiative and talk sex with their husbands and boyfriends. Hopefully they'll be wise enough to listen to their women.

I can't even come close to remembering how many women I've dated/known since I've divorced who've told me sex lives with their husbands was horrible, which was a substantial cause of their divorces.

Women know how to have mind-bowing sex long before dudes learn. My advice to younger dudes is to encourage their girlfriends and wives to engage in sex talk. They ought to ask them what they want done to them. They'll tell their boyfriends and husbands exactly what they want and how they want it. And never, ever judge a woman for her sexual expertise or how many dudes she's done. One of the three lies women will tell is the number of dudes she's done.

[amy40]

I can't even come close to remembering how many women I've dated/known since I've divorced who've told me sex lives with their husbands was horrible, which was a substantial cause of their divorces.

that's interesting because lists I've seen don't have bad sex as a reason for divorce

instead things like infidelity, incompatibility, grew apart, drugs/drinking, abuse
I did volunteer work at a domestic violence shelter for a year and it is definitely a problem

[amy40]

women groups/retreats been at never heard bad sex but did hear of abuse

[atskitty2]

amy, I'm not sure sex makes it to the conversational level in reasons for divorce. I think this is the only place I've ever mentioned how unsatisfactory my sex life was with ex-hubs. I think it's a contributor tho'. It wasn't my reason for leaving, but it was certainly further down the list.

If you're having marital problems, in finance or communication, or whatever, it often follows that sex and intimacy will diminish too.

[WaveRider]

that's interesting because lists I've seen don't have bad sex as a reason for divorce

instead things like infidelity, incompatibility, grew apart, drugs/drinking, abuse
I did volunteer work at a domestic violence shelter for a year and it is definitely a problem

amy40,

I've never said that bad sex was the cause of divorce. It is usually one of many causes that, when taken in totality, equal to incompatibility.

As far as I know, the primary cause of divorce still is severe financial difficulty.

Research indicates that marriages withstand infidelity.

[WaveRider]

BTW, amy40, I've read peer reviewed research that indicated that violence between spouses are more likely to end in divorce when one spouse calls cops than in marriages were spouses resolve it without law enforcement intervention.

[Texasred]

Folks, i think the OP might be completely lacking in sexual experience, at least with another person in the room, and he was trying to gain a woman's perspective on the act itself, i.e., is it pleasurable? I know this may sound strange, but their are people/times/cultures where that is still a question.
And has he gotten an answer? Orher than mine, which is always suspect...