[goodmanDG]

The situation is a bit unusual but let me be candid. I'm an older man in great shape who is seeing a young girl who works in a strip club where sex with customers in the back room is just par for the course.

Let me just say I'm an exceptionally good man and I would appreciate no judgments here (seriously, please save any advice about age or her being married and so on. PLEASE.)

I've been working to make a real difference in the world and have turned down millions from sharks predicting hundreds of millions because I'll only accept investors who care about the good we can do in the world. I'm finally getting good at attracting those people, but it's been a long difficult journey. I'm also the sweetest person and the best influence in the world for a young woman I care for. I'm very single with little time or money yet. And I have really fallen for this girl. She's from Cuba and sex for money is a normal thing for a lot of her peers, though she's not all that thrilled about it. She's married and has a 4-year-old daughter. She doesn't drink or use drugs (nor do I) and is a very good person.

I have been exclusive with only her since we met about a year ago. She comes to my house for sex (I refuse to have sex in the back room of a strip club and my home is a much better environment for her, obviously). I've also taken her to the beach to see the moonrise and to dinner a few times. I look forward to helping her no longer have to do what she's been doing for a living, and if the chemistry is there I may in fact be able to support her and her daughter for the rest of her life, even after I'm gone. And I really don't care about her being with her husband, though she's said more than once that she should move closer to me and let him live where he is, and she's apparently been serious, though I don't know the details of their relationship and I certainly won't let myself be responsible for disturbing a good family situation if that's what they have. Part of me would welcome the responsibility for her and her daughter and part of me knows that is just not at all realistic for many reasons, and I'm fine with that. I'm too busy anyway. But she has my heart and for numerous reasons I haven't wanted to be with anyone else.

She doesn't speak English much at all so we translate on the phone a lot, yet the chemistry is genuine. We have great chemistry, or at least we did early on (it's odd but the more I've treated her as more than just a sex object the less she's apparently felt good about having sex for money with me, yet she's feeling closer and I can see her being in conflict).

The second or third time she came to my house for sex she let me make love to her without a condom and cum inside of her. She seemed to love it. She wanted to cuddle right afterward. And I loved it beyond words, including the sense of connection and her desire to cuddle afterward. She then asked why I did that, and I said because I knew she wouldn't let me if she could get pregnant (we hadn't discussed it but I felt my way and knew for sure she was allowing it or I never would have proceeded). She said that's true but what about sexual disease, and I said I'm in great health and I have not had unprotected sex with a woman in at least the past six or seven years. That was that and we were back to cuddling.

But when I spoke to her a few days later she said we can never do that again. She said "When a woman's body gets used to a man and then she's with a different man, her body has a bad reaction. I was in pain afterward and felt sick."

At the time, I thought she was either making it up or had a psychologically induced reaction. But I spoke to a few young women at a club afterward and they all said that that's a real thing. One said it has to do with pH.

I detest using a condom in general. And I practice Taoist energy arts of chi gong and breathing and it all carries over into intimacy. If I can be that much closer to this young woman in bed it will mean so much to me and that can end up translating to so much more good for her and her future, partly because my being a superhero at work depends on my love life and she's been the only focus.

So, here I am on a woman's health forum asking not if this is a real thing but if there are any suggestions on what might be possible to mitigate that problem for her. And then how to approach it with her??? (It's unrealistic to ask since it's not going to be in my control but would unprotected sex and then pulling out before cumming be less painful for her? Of course, that's not the ideal goal here anyway, not to mention that there's a lot on this forum about the mutual pleasures and enhanced intimacy of the man cumming inside the woman.)

(Forgive me but on top of the physiology question I'm wrestling with whether to "very gently" let it occur spontaneously again and hope it cements a stronger connection ongoing. It's really difficult for a good man to know how to proceed in these situations. I'm as respectful and gentlemanly as it gets, and the irony is that that could sometimes be to a fault.)

Thank you for any advice that might help!

[goodmanDG]

As a footnote to my OP above, I feel I should clarify that the first time we had unprotected sex I did get her permission without her actually saying so. I said "No condom, it's necessary, it's important" and waited for her response. Her only response was to shake her bottom to entice me. (I'm one of those men who has ended a friendship on the spot if a friend was ever abusive with a woman in even the slightest way. I'm probably as close to the epitome of nobility as it gets. Sorry if it seems I'm defending myself unnecessarily but this is a very delicate subject on multiple levels and I'm hoping for advice.)

[atskitty2]

I think that since she stated, rather plainly, that she doesn't want that to happen again, honor her wishes in that regard. Unless she changes her mind and states that just as clearly, the right thing to do is adhere to her request.

I've never had sexual partners very close together in time, but I do know whenever I'm with someone new, there is a sort of adjustment phase for my vaginal health, and how I feel, and I suspect it's a change in the microbial flora of the vaginal area, as well as the pH change. So, yes, I think it's quite possible she experienced what she said she did.

[Alison H.]

I think it could possibly be both — physical and psychological.

From a physical standpoint, vaginal pH is affected by semen. We even talk about that in our medically-reviewed article on cumming inside — it has an effect.

Such changes to vaginal pH can result in anything from yeast infections to bacterial ones, including UTIs, along with irritation and vaginal odor.

That is absolutely true.

On the other hand, it could also be psychological to a degree, as well. No judgment here on the situation, but she is a married mother of a young child. Cumming inside is a very carnal activity that increases a person’s sense of intimacy with their partner.

If she’s struggling with the idea that she is now being “as” intimate with someone else as she is with her husband (and with whom, I assume, she shares a child she got that way), it might be having an effect on her psychologically, as well.

She later said “we can never do that again,” and I’d take her at her word on that. Whether it’s an issue with vaginal pH, having that much intimacy with someone who is not her husband, or even concerns over STIs or a combination of all these things… if she wants condoms to be used going forward, that’s just how it is.

Having unprotected sex and pulling out — it’s up to you if you want to broach that with her. It still carries risk — not just from pre-ejaculate but the risk that you won’t be able to pull out in time. Condoms, on the other hand, establish that barrier clearly from beginning to end.

And if she needs that barrier to continue having sex with you… that’s going to be the way it is.

[goodmanDG]

Thank you for the thoughtful responses. Before I get into my more focused question, I want to clearly state that this fine line of consent is a real thing sometimes in terms of what the woman is thinking and wants and in terms of the man's ability to discern that. It's not always as simple as a formal discussion beforehand. How many times in our youths have we entered into potential sexual encounters in which the woman was saying over and over there will be no sex and it turned out the chemistry was so right and then a family ensued that lived happily ever after?

I apologize for having brought my challenges in that regard into the mix in the first place. The fact is that it wasn't just talk in my saying I'm the most noble man there is. And I would never in a million years violate a woman's wishes.

Okay, so, having said that...

Her saying "never again" is utterly not a thing. Nobody knows the future, not even her. Or any of us. Right? Okay.

So...

We saw each other last night. We had the most exquisite time together. We talked about my business pursuits while I showed her things and translated on the computer. She has previously expressed serious curiosity about my business pursuits and that's largely because the theme of our relationship, being what it is, is that she's inspiration for my work and bringing in large money, and I'm hope for her to have a better future and not be doing the work she's been doing -- yet this has gradually been leading to more and more of a very genuine, very real romantic, loving chemistry between us.

Then she took a nap on the couch. After which I went down on her, which she loves and loved, and then I was on top of her and ASKED and she insisted NO, and she asked me to get a condom. I insisted I cannot use a condom and instead had her use her hands on me and I came on her. That was the most sexually charged, intense, MUTUALLY thrilling experience and connection for us! (There is so much more to the energetic/spiritual/psychological dynamics of sex than any of us comprehend).) She seemed to orgasm, or at least have the full-body experience of it. It was so intense and mutual joyous, especially the way we looked at each other and both laughed with total joy and abandon.

That brought us to a new level of connection we had never had before. We then cuddled in bed for half an hour at my insistence, which she loved, and then she asked me to take her to the nice restaurant she had initially said didn't interest her. We had the most exquisite light fun loving time and connection together over dinner. Afterward we took a walk in the park and over the water, which she also loved. And she asked about my having children or a wife and when I said I didn't she said, "You don't have any family? It's just me?" And when I said, Yes, it's just you, she wrapped her arm around mine.

She talked about her big belly after that great meal and jokingly said "It's your baby. You Junior."

Then back to my place, more talk about my business pursuits and how much her love is the key to my being a superhero in my work. And she makes no secret of the things she wants with money -- car, house, etc. She again said she wants me to get her a place near me -- a house near the beach.

And we again talked about condoms. She explained again why they're necessary and why it isn't just about pregnancy. I told her it's very important and to please think about it, and reminded her I would never want to hurt her but that it really is important. She said in her characteristically sweet and bratty way, "Okay, when you bring in the first million, we will."

We went to leave and on the way out of my apartment she noticed a long thin sweet potato on the shelf and grabbed it and made the joking gesture of using it as a dildo, spreading her legs a bit and pretending to be thrusting it in and out. I said "No condom?" and she laughed.

Note that never in my experiences with her had I ever even remotely conducted myself in that kind of crude way or even seen her do so, and hardly ever even when she was dancing for me at that club.

Which is a reminder that this is a girl with a very mixed bag of sexual experiences -- married, superb mother, young like a child (dancing and singing to loud club music in my car saying "I'm Cuban, not American"), really exhibiting growing normal healthy sexually based connection and intimacy with me in every way, AND YET who knows how many penises a day or week during her work -- albeit usually with a condom and usually with no actual emotional connection at all.

So, I'm of course only going to always honor her requests, and it turned out there was no decision for me to make last night. I asked, she answered, and of course I honored what she said. And the way it went probably led to much more intimacy than sex with a condom would have allowed.

The connection took on a whole new level last night and it's increasingly likely we'll be revisiting it in discussion soon and she'll probably allow it soon.

So, again, no need for anyone here to worry about my being a real man in honoring a woman and making her feel safe (she feels so safe with me it's the epitome of what it's supposed to be, all the time, in all ways, at all levels).

But my question still remains. (By the way, were I not in this emotional whirlwind this would be a very short set of posts. LOL. Thanks for understanding!)

My question is whether there's anything she can do to mitigate the discomfort, at least from the physical level. Now, if you're telling me it's probably yeast or bacteria or UTI related, those are things I can help her address. My field is health and healing from a holistic perspective. I have numerous world-famous PhD medical and nutrition and overall holistic healers on my team.

Maybe I shot myself in the foot writing so much, but the question is if anyone here knows what would be the most likely cause from the physical side, and then I can explore what might be possible to help minimize discomfort for her. She will trust my advice.

I'm thinking that since it's such a common thing (and it seems to be, since the three or four young women I spoke with after she first told me about it all told me it's a very normal problem), there's perhaps a common primary cause. Which then makes finding a full or partial remedy a viable possibility.

Again, sorry for the very long posts. I guess at this point I don't really expect any advice beyond what I received since it's an illusory subject. I looked online and didn't see anywhere to post this kind of question that seemed more appropriate than this forum. I guess today I'm mainly just looking to reassure readers that this young woman is in the best of hands.

Thank you so much! I'm extremely grateful!

[Alison H.]

It's not always as simple as a formal discussion beforehand. How many times in our youths have we entered into potential sexual encounters in which the woman was saying over and over there will be no sex and it turned out the chemistry was so right and then a family ensued that lived happily ever after?

Conversely, I’d argue how many times has a woman clearly laid out her wishes only to eventually give in after unrelenting pressure from someone else?

You mentioned that when you asked her about going without a condom, “she insisted NO” and asked you to get a condom, at which point you then insisted you could not do that, and chose a handjob instead.

Which worked out in the end, if it was the most mutually thrilling experience as you described.

I guess I’m confused over why “no” isn’t enough of an answer. You've honored her requests, but keep bringing it up. I know you've said that going without a condom is important to you, but using one is important to her — and the potential ramifications of not using one are just far heavier on her side of the equation (unintended pregnancy, and what that might do to her marriage/family/home life/future). They just are.

And in mentioning that “who knows how many penises a day or week during her work – albeit usually with a condom” perhaps part of her reasoning is protecting you from potential STIs. (Is she tested regularly as part of her job?)

That’s a concern that may be in play here, as well. For her, and you. Condoms offer protection.

Since you have numerous world-famous Ph.Ds on your team, I’d consult with them regarding how to mitigate discomfort depending on the cause, but that might require a doctor’s diagnosis first. And her consent for that, obviously.

A person can “guess” but because this might be caused by a pH imbalance (leading to yeast, bacteria causing bacterial vaginosis, or UTI); there’s not one “fix” for all three. They’re all very different conditions.

And that's assuming it is all physical, and not psychological — the manifestation of pain or discomfort based on her emotional or mental feelings about the act. (Could be one or the other, or a mix of both.)

Again, though… the more you push the issue with her over and over, the more likely she is to eventually cave — even if she doesn’t really want to — just to keep you happy.

And as honorable as you say you are, that’s probably not what you want to do, right?

[goodmanDG]

I appreciate your being so giving in responding and sharing your thoughts. I must say I sense a tiny bit of bias towards the man being a bad guy here. I'm being incredibly caring towards her in every way. It's hard for a woman to know what it's like for a very good man to love a woman, especially a younger woman, in such a caring and protective way that it brings out the best in him and her wellbeing and happiness are considerably higher priorities than his own desires, wellbeing or happiness. I'm such a man and this is such a scenario. I made it so clear to her the other day that, while I certainly have my own desires here, nothing I want is even remotely as important as what's best for her and that includes not doing anything to risk disturbing what she wants for her family. If being with her husband continues to be best for her and what she wants, I support it and will do nothing to disturb it. And what's best for her and her daughter prevails over all else. And trust me she shows me very clearly that she knows how utterly sincere I am.

I am very conscious about how I'm influencing her in many ways: her self-image and self-confidence being primary. And the trajectory of her future life.

This issue of a condom is far beyond just my thrills. It's connection at levels of divine merging that we cannot understand. And that increased connection can help in so many ways for the good chemistry between us, for me to be a superhero taking care of her and providing for her future, and for her to outgrow the life of cold disconnected sex with many men to pay the bills and provide for her family.

And there's little potential downside for her beyond the obvious of discomfort due to pH etc and of course possible issues with her husband, which I take into serious consideration and certainly labor over. She's not going to get pregnant since she's on birth control, and there will be no STDs from me since I have not been with another woman without a condom in over five or six years and of course will not.

And "give you a handjob" was nothing as sterile as that sounded. The chemistry connection and shared pleasure was so profound for both of us! I practice "spiritual sexuality" for lack of a better word gained from training over decades from teachers from an American Indian chief to Tantra masters to Chinese chi gong masters. The mechanics of the body parts was just the physical component. Same with normal sex. But condoms are "barriers" to a substantial degree, especially during orgasm. How intimate is kissing, and how would it be through a sheet of saran wrap? This isn't about cheap thrills.

I'm not a bad person because of asking her to again think about it.

Maybe the sex act is called "making love" for a reason.

So, yes, it's important to me, and probably to her if this might grow, but I assure you I only brought it up a couple of times and she knows for sure she is under no pressure whatsoever.

I wish more men were incredibly good men like me. And that women could take more comfort in knowing how cared for and safe they are. Luckily, this one knows that that's the case here in all ways, not just about this. She knows my heart.

Anyway, thank you again for having allowed me to share so much here, and for being so caring about people in general in how you courteously responded! And I'm with you all the way about the woman being the priority! I honor you for that!

[jns]

"I have been exclusive with only her since we met about a year ago."

"She said that's true but what about sexual disease, and I said I'm in great health and I have not had unprotected sex with a woman in at least the past six or seven years."

"I detest using a condom in general."

I know that you say you detest using a condom in general, but your statements imply that you have used something for protected sex for years. Why not with her?

A more general question is: if you are an exceptionally good man of means who really cares for her, why not figure out some way to support her so that she can leave the life at the strip club, if that is truly her desire. The money at the club may be very good but you have to find out if she truly wants to leave. I get the feeling that you would prefer for her to leave her husband and be with you instead (understand that the husband can help her with their child even if her work isn't traditional for a wife). I am sure that she has heard many stories from many men that haven't panned out. How are you going to insure that she will still have the means of taking care of her family if you later leave or die? Would you buy her a house so she didn't have to worry about having a roof over her head and the heads of her family? Are you interested in her taking language lessons so she can function easier in a wider society? Also, what about training for another type of job? To me, much of the relationship still sounds very much transactional instead of based on a loving relationship or a friendship.

[goodmanDG]

Okay. Really? What is this man-bashing bias you people have here? How on the planet did you get -- or assume -- from any of what I wrote that any of the things you listed are not top priority for me? And why did you not ask me or suggest, rather than say "I get the feeling" and "To me, much of the relationship still sounds like..." Really? You may want to examine why you came up with that.

It just so happens that in my mind -- I get the feeling and to me -- every single one of the priorites your mentioned are exactly what matter to me, are top priority to me, are exactly what I've told her and my closest friends who are all very good people just like me are my top priorities and my friends have asked me to examine for myself and be honest about it with myself and with her.

> Stay with her husband if that's what's best for her and the child and what she wants most? CHECK!

> Share responsibilities with her husband if it comes to that? CHECK

> Take on the full responsibilities of being a father to her daughter and commit to that for the rest of my life if it comes to that? (And I recently told her that my friends have asked me to search my heart on all of these same issues you brought up, as I said, and that I came out in support of her and for being there for her on all counts including this one.) CHECK!

> Help her get out of the business of stripping and being a sex worker as soon as I can free up enough cash for that, which I've been diligently working to accomplish somehow -- and only if she truly wants to leave? (She's making well into six figures a year so that's something I've only managed to partially do so far, allowing her days without going to the club; and I've articulated to her that if she still wants to work there I'll support her in that -- in exactly those words.) CHECK!

> Put her through school or career training of her choosing as soon as circumstances allow? CHECK!

> Put her into English classes as soon as it's practical? CHECK!

> Be a positive influence and support in every way a man can possibly be for a young, growing woman who he loves? CHECK!

> Ensure she never has to worry about money the rest of her life as soon as I'm able, with more than only buying her a house? Even if we don't keep seeing each other, and even if (when) I die? This is in fact my biggest priority! CHECK!

It's sad the majority of interactions between men and women don't have you assuming the best of all those things, or at leat being curious and asking, since you have no reason to assume anything less. But I understand it's easy to assume the worst. I guess one's experiences influence what they assume and expect from strangers. Nobility is not that common.

Transactional? Yeah, to some extent. She still won't be with me yet unless I have money for her, though I do understand she's still working and has a family and she has to optimize her time. There's that. And loving her, and having her love to some extent, helps me be the best possible version of myself and that helps me make money to care for her even better.

(Sigh)

Can I go now?

[goodmanDG]

I want to close in pointing out that this "relationship" with her is both very unusual for the obvious reasons and very special.

I would not have asked the original question here if it were not uniquely special, with her being so very important -- with my mind, heart, and spirit aligned with it being so potentially lifelong, life-changing special for both of us, and for her daughter.

The concerns I've seen expressed here are totally normal and understandable in the absence of having been able to take that into account, and I realize you had no way of really getting that until we've expanded on the dialog in all these posts.

Nobody knows the future but I'm optimistic and committed. It may go barely anywhere or who knows how far. You can trust me when I say I fully understand the ramifications of asking a girl to make love without a condom, and of everything else at play. There's not a single iota of this that I take lightly. I've done a ton of soul-searching and am sure I'm totally there for her.