[MeLuvCookies]

My wife is always telling me I don't understand what women want but I think so many things she says don't make sense and are frankly pretty insulting.

She is always telling me how much she loved giving guys before me blowjobs but with me she doesn't want to because she says it is too much work. And then the other night she tells me that she has to be drunk to want to do that with me and to get into it and be animalistic about it as she said.

It isn't about the specific act for me. I actually don't really care about receiving blowjobs. I've never been able to get off from getting one and I would much rather go down on her but she doesn't like that either and says she never has which I still find baffling. Its not what she is saying she doesn't like doing with me that bothers me, it could be anything. It is that I have been trying for years to make sex pleasurable and enjoyable for her telling her we literally can do anything she wants in bed except have other people involved, explore anything she wants, find her buttons together and all I get is a long list of things she doesn't like and won't do and all she wants is to skip straight to intercourse and says that is all she likes now. But then she is telling me about something she does like doing, giving blowjobs, but she only enjoys it with other guys before me and with me she considers it too much work and has to be drunk to want to do it.

Like am I wrong to find that kind of insulting and hurtful. So even the things you do enjoy in bed you liked before me but not with me. Me the one who has been married to you for 12 years, had kids with you, built a life together with you, worked twice as hard as any guy out there to do and be everything you need and everything that could be asked of me, not in bad shape, not fat not bald, tried probably harder than any guy has had to try to be good in bed for you and literally had to fight against and overcome your many boundaries and inhibitions and walls and mountains of limits and still I am always trying to do anything I can to make our sex life enjoyable and passionate for us both and here you are telling me the only thing you can come up with that you like to do in bed you don't feel any desire to do it with me unless you are drunk but guys before me that treated you horrible you wanted it with them. Like seriously **** you.

Again I don't care about what the actual act is. It could be backing freaking brownies for all I care. It is that I have tried so hard for so long and literally felt like I'm fighting against her to find ways for sex to be pleasurable and enjoyable for her and to reach her and keep our passion alive and she tells me that even things she does like to do she doesn't like doing with me. I'm seriously ****ed now. Am I missing something or blowing this out of proportion. I can't think of anything I like doing in bed that I would say I liked it before you but with you it is too much work and I have to be drunk to be into it.

[Wednesday L.F.]

Removing emotion from the convo, every penis is different. Larger penises are more physically challenging to fellate and cramped jaws hurt. If it takes a long time for you to finish, and she feels like you finishing that way (as opposed to oral as a prelude to PiV stuff) that’s not as fun as a quickie for some folks.

I feel like we’re missing crucial info here. Has your wife said WHY she doesn’t want certain activities? Are you discussing this only in the bedroom or at other times too?

[MeLuvCookies]

I mean as much as my ego and self esteem could probably use the compliment I am probably in the realm of average size, big enough to get the job done but nobody is offering me a job on porn anytime soon so I don't think I would fall into the too big to be able to give a blowjob to category.

And again if she just didn't like giving them I'd be like whatever great. I am fine with that. I'll find something else you do like.

But for her to tell me how much she liked giving them to other guys before me, but with me its too much work and she has to be drunk to be into it, that's my issue. It could be knitting socks for all I care. but if you are telling me how much you got turned on knitting socks with other guys before me, but with me you gotta get drunk to want to knit socks, and you can't really give me anything else that you do get into with me other than wanting me to stick it in with no warmup and go at it rough quickie style like you just want to get it over with, I mean put yourselves in my position how many of you wouldn't be insulted by that.

And I'm not misogynistic at all and I know men have it way easier than women but this is where it feels like an annoying double standard. If I were to say to my wife you know I really really loved going down on women before you but with you I don't want to because it is too much work and I would have to be drunk to be into it, well she isn't into that but any other woman in her position would be hurt and I would pretty rightfully come off as a selfish prick. But she says basically the same thing to me and it is OK? And even with that if she was putting effort into enjoying our sex life in other ways and finding things together that she really does like doing with me and doesn't have to be drunk to get animalistic as she put it, I would probably still give this a pass because again the specific act I don't care about. But to say I don't really enjoy doing anything in particular with you, and even the things I really got turned on doing with other guys before you I don't get turned on doing with you, but don't take it personally and keep doing all the hard work of being a husband but just know I wanted to do things with guys that treated her terribly and we working twice as hard to be everything she wants and ask for in a husband and father isn't good enough for her to feel like that about doing anything with me. But keep giving all that effort and don't get insulted when I say things right to your face like that which show no respect.

[atskitty2]

No, I definitely can understand why that would be hurtful. I'd be hurt if my man said, "yes, I loved to go down on all my girlfriends before, just not with you." I would definitely ask if I stunk, taste too sour, do you want the hair styled differently? What is it about ME that makes you not want to do something you enjoy, with ME? Seems very personal.

Yeah, I think you two need to sit down and have a real talk. Open, honest, and find out what it is that she's just not satisfied with in your sex life. Since it seems you don't care about BJs, I can safely assume that's not what you're asking for frequently, then why is this a recurrent comment? This is rooted in something much more involved than a BJ. You need to dig in and figure that out.

[JonnyR]

I was curious, how long have you guys been married? Has she ever spoken to you about this or talked about things in this way or is her attitude changing from previous?

I do agree though -- I mean we're at our most vulnerable when we're intimate with someone, and especially when they criticize us sexually, we need to be receptive to positive feedback or feedforward, but sometimes it can sting if there's not something to "do" or work on, just "hey, this is changed, sorry."

I would definitely dig deeper here!

[MeLuvCookies]

Thanks. Yeah Kitty you are right its not something I'm asking for frequently. Actually it is not something I've really ever been asking for. I wasn't even asking for it when it came up. It was something we were watching on television with a guy talking about how his wife never puts it in her mouth anymore since they got married and my wife agreed with that way too enthusiastically and said all that stuff to me. I don't really care about that in particular. Honestly if I had my choice and could make any deal withy her I'd be fine with never getting a BJ again in exchange for me getting to go down on her every time. That is my favorite thing to do and that is what I'm always asking to do. Sadly she is the only woman I've ever met in my life who doesn't like a guy going down on her. I never even knew that was possible before her. So that is the deal i would make if I could have anything selfishly for myself but that is not an option she is giving me.
What is insulting me and what I am taking very personally is that I have literally been offering to do for her anything at all she likes, anything she wants to try, anything she wants to explore sexually, except for other people being involved, in order to make sex pleasurable and fun and satisfying for her and all I get is there is nothing she wants to try or do other than just sticking it in and going right to it but I got her telling me things she liked doing with other guys before me who I know for a fact were not anywhere near as good to her as I have been.

I just find it insulting that literal crack addicts and felons she was turned on and wanted to give them a blowjob but me who treats her well, settles down with her, has kids with her and raises kids and stays committed and does all the hard work you could ask of a husband and a partner, me I'm not good enough for there to be anything she wants to do with me and is turned on and excited to do with me but the guys she was with before me that treated her horrible she wanted it with them. So there are things you like sexually, just not with me. That is pretty personally insulting. It doesn't have to be that one thing. If you liked that before and not now fine. But you have to have something you get turned on and into with me. If you wanted it with them giving you zero percent and you want nothing with me giving you my 110 percent why the hell did you marry me in the first place. Why did you act like you wanted a sexual relationship with me if you didn't. Why did you lie to me and trick me and con me just to have kids and trap me if you didn't actually want to be with me. I wasn't playing an act and I deserved better than that. I deserve a woman who wants and appreciates me and I could have had that if she had been honest with me but now with the kids and the bills its too late and it would take so long to afford to get divorced and start over I'd be too old. So I feel enormously insulted and cheated. I could have made almost any other woman so freaking happy and satisfied and I could have been so happy with her if I had just been given the chance and not deceived. That is what her making statements like she wanted to give the awful guys she was with before me blowjobs but with me it is too much work and she has to be drunk to get into it and there isn't really anything else she is all into doing with me, that is what statements like that make me feel like.

[Alison H.]

How old are you guys, if you don't mind me asking?

There might be a few things at play here, related to age, hormones, libido levels, medications, even fetishes/fantasies... there are a lot of possibilities. But I think the discussion needs to take place, and outside of the bedroom.

I think it's awful, what she said, but I have to wonder if she's either missing the freedom of youth (this is more common than you might think), or at least the lack of responsibilities/inhibitions that came with it, before marriage and parenthood. Add to that hormonal changes (libido might just be lower than it was when she was younger and unmarried, which has nothing to do with you), and it could be that sex seemed "easier" when she was younger, versus now.

Her wording may not necessarily mean what it came across as, but it was a poor choice, either way.

That said, some women simply have a thing for "bad boys" and if that was her M.O. back then, there might still be some residual need there. It doesn't mean that's who she wanted to build a life with, however. As an armchair psychologist, the thrill that comes with messing around with people you know are bad for you is not the same as having sex in a loving stable relationship that's safe. One feels dangerous but exciting (living on the edge, doing something bad with somebody bad), the other is safe but not exciting in the same way. Does that make sense?

I think a heart-to-heart conversation, far from the bedroom, is needed to get to the root of it. What her inhibitions are, where they are stemming from (whether it's physical, mental, emotional), and how to move forward together.

[MeLuvCookies]

Thanks. I'll be honest I love women but the bad boy thing is one thing with women that has always deeply ****ed me off and one thing I really hate. That attitude from women has probably caused more damage to me and my life than anything else.

Yeah I get the thrill thing but at some point grow up. And if that is what you want don't complain when you get what you paid for and the bad boy ends up actually being bad. Most importantly don't complain to the good guy who you probably friend zoned and then complain to about how there are no good guys out there. There are right freaking in front of you, treating you good, respecting you as an equal and a partner, actually treating you with respect, maybe ****ing appreciate that and be turned on by that or else don't complain how there aren't any good guys out there. You are paying for your choices.

I remember trying to date a woman in college who told me and this is an exact quote "I need a man who will put me in my place or else I'll just walk all over him." And I'm like what am I supposed to say to that, smack her and say ***** go make me a sandwich. Is that literally what you want. Is this 1952? Like what the **** in a grown woman's psyche tells her to be turned on and reward a man treating her that way but if I am actively respecting and working and loving you and actively being a good man and everything you claim you want in a man you are actively punishing me for it and less sexually attracted and friend zoning me for being nice to you. That is just stupid.

And another girl I tried to date in college told me she wanted to take it slow. So I respected her wishes and took it slow. Then the following week I'm getting friend zoned and she is hooking up with some frat boy douche bag and she is complaining to me as her friend about how awful her sex life is with this guy because he is always high on ketamine and well a selfish frat boy that doesn't care if he gets her off. But he is rewarded for his behavior and I am punished and friend zoned for respecting her wishes.

So after college I helped pay the living expenses while my girlfriend finished college. That is again what you are supposed to do as a good partner. What else was I supposed to do. How does she repay me, by cheating on me her last semester when she was studying abroad. Once she didn't need me for anything anymore basically. So I got used why because I wasn't mean enough to her? That logic just doesn't make any sense.

After that I was so angry and hurt that I decided if you girls want the bad guy then I'll play the bad guy. As almost an absolute joke I played the stereotype just hooking up with girls, wanting just sex wanting anything but a committed monogamous relationship. And wouldn't you know I ended up spending almost a decade in the lifestyle with no shortage of women in open marriages and swinging and some just flat out cheating who wanted to sleep with me if all I cared about and wanted from them was sex. But try to listen to them and respect them and support them and be my actual self a nice good man and try to actually date them and all I would get was to friend base. It was just ridiculous. Same person but if I act like an ******* women want me and if I treat women with respect as they deserve to be treated and actually be myself I'm only good enough to be their friend. How does that make sense. I still have a lot of resentment towards women for the way they treat guys who are good to them as you can tell.

I got bored of playing that stereotype and that lifestyle. I wanted to settle down. I thought I found a woman who felt that being good to her, making her happy, doing all the things a grown up guy is supposed to do fixing things, taking care of things, being giving of pleasure in bed that all those things did it for her and turned her one and made her see me that way. That was how she acted when we were together for the first several years. So I believed her. And I married her. What else are you supposed to do when somebody says they love you and says they want to have a sexual relationship with just you for the rest of their lives. But now I'm being punished for it because I'm not both the perfect husband and father and the bad boy at the same time. Ridiculous.

I know I'm over generalizing and venting my anger. I'm sure there have to be women somewhere that don't think like this, that are actually attracted to a man that treats them good. Can somebody tell me where the hell to find them please. My frustrations are getting the better of me.

[Alison H.]

They are out there. Really. But I get the frustration for sure. I don't know if an open relationship is something you've ever considered... I know you mentioned divorce not really being an option, and if that really isn't feasible, maybe an open relationship is something to consider.

You stay married on paper, but you're free to find what YOU need outside of the home.

[MeLuvCookies]

Thanks Alison. Wish more women were as mature as you. My wife doesn't even seem to want to talk about sex lately so how we are supposed to make it better when i can't even discuss it with her figure that one out.

I would be open to exploring an open marriage even though I saw a lot of bad examples of supposed ethical non monogamy during my single swinging years so I'm not totally trusting of how well they actually work in practice. But I'd be willing to explore it yes to get my needs met if she is just totally unwilling to make any effort to try to meet my needs which are really just her being into it and her willing to be present and into it and find the things she enjoys and find ways to give her orgasms, and maybe let me go down on her I really miss that. But if she is totally unwilling to make any effort to do any of that and I can't force her to care or change I would be willing to explore that. But it is a moot point because she has been clear she is not Ok with any idea of an open marriage. She is actually very jealous and possessive of me for a woman who doesn't seem to want me herself. Go figure. Discussions of that have gone nowhere and she has reacted quite angrily and I've had to back off so I don't see that as a possibility but in theory yes I would be willing to do that cause I miss satisfying a woman and giving a woman orgasms and I miss foreplay and I miss going down on a woman and I miss everything sex can be so freaking bad and I am feeling so frustrated and insulted and humiliated by my situation right now. But that kind of thing has to be mutual and she has to be willing to do her part and be open and do the work. And lets be honest if she was that mature and open and willing we wouldn't be in this situation probably.

And I apologize if I cam off as like hating women. I don't. I really don't. I've just had so many bad experiences where I have been treated horribly by women and played and feel like I have been punished or taken advantage of for treating women as equals and respecting them and treating them as they deserve to be treated and as they say they want to be treated, but then when I do that its either friend zone or take advantage of me and then complain about how there are no good guys or complain about how they get treated by the bad boys they do go for. Obviously my hurt over being treated like that has stuck with me. I think the having a bad boy complex but then also complaining about how men are and how they get treated is what ****ed me off the most. Like you chose a bad boy and you rewarded a man for being a bad boy, well you got what you paid for and what you wanted so don't cry about it now. If you wanted to be treated right how about you look at the guy you just friend zones or screwed over and used for money. Pick a lane. Either be attracted to the kind of man you say you want who treats you like you say you want to be treated or accept the outcome of getting what you paid for when the bad boy you choose turns out to be a bad boy and treats you bad. And at some point grow up and get over your bad boy complex and be a grown *** woman already. But again thats just my frustration talking. I feel like I have spent so much of my life trying to be a good guy and getting kicked in the face for it that I've either sometimes given into the darkness and been like OK you want a bad guy, I'll play the bad guy, say hello to the bad guy and I kind of became a monster who only cared about sex and used women for years because I was just play acting the bad boy stereotype and it just kept working with women that I saw no incentive to treat women like I wanted to treat them, nice, and no incentive to be myself and be a nice guy and a good guy because I'd get punished for being myself and rewarded for pretending to be an *******. And other times I've dug my heels in and been like I am going to be myself and I am going to find a woman who find me treating her with respecting and listening to her and treating her an equal as she is attractive sexually and that does it for her and makes her see me and want me that way. I am determined to find that woman and live the rest of my life with her. I'm just angry that my wife claimed to be that woman and was apparently lying to me and now if I help with the kids and am a supportive husband and father and partner what I'm only good enough to pay bills and do chores as the good man but if I'm a bad boy and treat her like crap and just spend my money on strippers and don't help with the kids and smoke weed and play x box all day or whatever then she'll want to **** me. That just makes me so angry.

I don't hate all women, just women who have that attitude. And I am trying hard to fight becoming jaded and bitter and becoming a bad guy and a monster out of anger and pain and if I ever get out of this marriage I hope I still have enough good guy left in me and it hasn't been driven out of me by this bad boy complex some women seem to have that I don't become that guy again. I don't want to. I like who I am. I just want a woman who likes it and appreciates it and is attracted to it too.