[Acesup]

Thanks Kitty. Yeah a lot of what you describe about my wife is pretty accurate dead on and she has every issue and baggage you could think of for sure. Yes she has childhood sex trauma. But she had plenty of relationships with guys she wanted to sleep with before me and she wanted to sleep with me when we got together until after we had kids so why is her past sexual trauma an issue for her now when it wasn't an issue with any guy before me and it wasn't an issue even with me for year. And she has a therapist who used to be our marriage counselor. Why can't she be a grown woman and talk to her therapist and make the effort to work on the impact of her trauma for herself as much as for me. We are both missing out and her abuser is winning and I am being punished for abuse and trauma I had nothing to do with.
Yes she has massive body image issues because her Dad made her feel fat as a kid and yes she had eating disorders she dealt with when she went to rehab in her 20s. Yes she is taking GLP shots and has lost a ton of weight, like 60-70 lbs or so and yes I looked it up and those GLP shots seem to just be awful for women's libido and sexual enjoyment and their bodies in general but given her body issues I am not going to tell her not to take them so I'm sacrificing having a wife that wants sex with me in order for her to feel better about her own body cause I know if she hates her body she won't be into it anyway. So if I'm going to lose either way I figure I might as well be supportive of what at least allows her to feel good about herself even if it makes this problem between us even worse.
Yes she is clinically depressed has been probably most of her life and had been on antidepressants as long as I've known her. But again her approach is to just medicate more and more. She's taking massive doses of two different antidepressants at the same time and yes those are probably playing a role in cratering her sex drive but again she was on antidepressants with guys before me and she wanted to have sex with them and they treated her horrible., They were literally crack addicts and literally going to prison. One even kicked her dog, like for real. And she wanted to have sex with them despite her body image issues and depression and medication. And she wanted it with me just fine for the first several years of our marriage. She was very vanilla but what she was into and allowed worked for her and she wanted it and enjoyed it and got off. The trauma and the depression and body issues and medication aren't any different now than they were then except the GLP shots and none of those things stopped her from wanting me then.
It wasn't until after she had kids in her mid to late 30s. She was definitely post partum after our second child. Then she started talking about being perimenopausal at like 38 which I doubt she was all the way back then but I also don't doubt at all that she is now. She has every classic symptom.
Yes she is very unhappy at times and yes she does act very checked out at times. But here is what is confusing to me and why I wonder about how much it is being caused by her hormones and perimenopause versus her just not wanting me anymore and just going through the motions of marriage and being checked out. Her actions and attitudes towards our relationship and sex are not constantly this bad. They are actually wildly inconsistent and swing wildly from the most checked out attitude and saying some of the most insulting humiliating offensive stuff to me about her lack of interest in our sex life to times when she is really into it and really present and making an effort and everything I could possibly ask for.
Like she is all over the board and its like being married to two or three different women at different times. And to be honest the totally messed up things she says are what seem to hurt me and make me the angriest and lead to our fights over her attitude towards sex but for the most part her actions often don't back up the messed up things she says and her actions are often much better than what she is saying. so I actually find myself all confused as to what she really feels. And when I confront her in a fight about the things she says that no man could stay married to his wife if that was how she really felt about him, she like literally doesn't even seem to remember saying some of this stuff and denies saying it and says that is not how she feels. That is one of the things that make me wonder if its the peri and the hormones talking sometimes or if deep down that is how she really feels and she is checked out. I don't know what is real and that has me all screwed up.

Like for example, one of our biggest fights is when I asked her to turn off her favorite TV show before we were about to have sex and literally didn't seem to understand why I would be offended by the idea of her wanting to zone out and watch TV while we are having sex. Like I'm sorry if you can't be present and in it and trying to enjoy it for 15 minutes once or twice a week that is not you trying your hardest and doing your best for us. Imagine if your partner told you they just wanted to lay there and watch TV while you had sex. You'd either lose all self respect for yourself or leave them. It was a huge fight where then she claimed to have just been joking. And to be honest I can't think of any instance where I caught her looking past me and zoning out watching TV during sex. There have been a few instances where she said from the outset she just wasn't going to be able to cum that night and I should just make it about me and me getting off for my needs. I was pretty hurt by that because it is extremely important to me to satisfy my wife and give her orgasms. I know it won't be every time but I feel like I should be trying to get her off every time and I don't want her normal attitude to be she isn't even trying or else I'll never be able to get her off. But I can't say, at least lately that her normal attitude has been that she doesn't get into it during sex and that she doesn't try to enjoy it during sex and doesn't cum during sex. She just doesn't seem to have any inner sex drive and sexual desire and sexual fantasies of her own. Its like she hates everything about sex until we are in the middle of it and I am inside her and then she forgets how much she hates sex and isn't checked out anymore. So her actions aren't matching her words sometimes and I don't know what to believe.

We had a terrible fight a couple weeks ago where she said to me that she doesn't think about sex, doesn't miss sex if its been a little while and nothing I do really turns her on, and then that same day made some passing comment while we were watching TV about how attractive she finds big bald black guys. And like that really ****ed me off because she has said things like that before and it always feels like a personal insult and disrespect and humiliation. It feels like she is saying she has no sexual desires and fantasies or fire with me and then treating me like her non threatening plutonic best friend and girl talking with me saying like "let me tell you what kind of guy does it for me, lets make it clear it is not you despite everything we have been through, everything you have done for me, and all the good sex we have had. Let me rub it in your face what kind of guy I do want but lets be clear its not you and you do nothing for me and I don't see you that way." Like I was enraged because I know people think I'm weak but I don't have a self esteem problem. I know I'm good enough that almost any woman would be happy with me and I know I deserve better than being talked to like that. But I have a results problem that I know I'm good enough and I know I'm giving enough and doing enough but why am I not getting the results and why does she not see it. I can know I'm good enough and smart enough all I want but if she doesn't see it and want me the result is the same. So I was really angry and we had a huge fight where she said again she never said those things which she did and she said she is turned on by me often and does think about sex with me she's just often tired by the end of the day when the opportunity exists to do something about it. Like that attitude is different. I understand that attitude. That is different than what she was saying to me before. And frankly since then she has been different in our sex life. We have had sex three times in the last week and a half and all three times I can't say she full on initiated but the effort it took me to initiate with her was minimal like she seemed to be ready for it, and she seemed to get turned on and wet and into it really fast especially given that she doesn't let me do any foreplay. And she seemed to be more active and engaged during sex and like trying to cum. She actually suggested climbing on top of me last time and usually I have to ask her to get on top and she resists because her shoulders hurt and as far as I can tell not like I ask her but from how it felt she went pretty primal and didn't stop after her first orgasm and kept going for a second one. Hell she even let me go down on her one time in the last week. She stopped me after like five seconds cause she says it makes her self conscious and she thinks it gross but she said I could have a taste because she knows I wanted it bad. And she has been more physically affectionate outside of sex since hat fight for the last few weeks and generally her attitude has been happier. And to be honest I have never seen one shred of evidence of her wanting another man or cheating on me and she is terrible at keeping secrets, I mean terrible. So I don't think she actually wants somebody else instead of me but then why does she say things like she does sometimes.

So that is why I'm so confused. She acts like that for periods of time where her actions say our sex life is great and except for her being so vanilla is everything I could ask for from a woman who is otherwise an incredible wife. But then she has these periods of time where her attitude seems so totally checked out like you described. Where she says the most messed up things and seems to want to put no effort into our relationship and our intimacy. It almost does feel like her attitude rises and falls and changes so thats what makes me wonder if it could be hormone driven. She does PMS vbery bad and gets super cranky and emotional when she is PMSing which again I understand. God I just wish she would get her hormones actually checked and talk to a doctor about HRT. I swear I think just the act of making an effort would improve her attitude and I would appreciate it so much. But I really don't understand how she can want it and be into it sometimes and then be so absolutely miserable and checked out some other times and have night sweats and depression and fatigue and just not care enough to even ask a doctor or try to do something about it, like even for herself and even for quality of life. Like why doesn't she even care to try. And then why is she so checked out sometimes and not checked out some other times. And why does she say such awful things if that is not how she actually acts.

And yes I have been in therapy for a long time. We were in marriage counseling. My wife wanted an individual therapist and the woman we were seeing was like the only person my wife felt like she could trust and I wanted her to work on her issues so I gave up our marriage counselor to be her individual counselor. I kind of regret that because now my wife resists when i tell her I want to go back to a different marriage counselor and its a dead hard no when I've asked about us seeing a sex therapist because she says we don't have the time and money to see two therapists and the problems are all in my head and all my anxiety and this is just what happens to women in their 40s and I should just accept it and so on and so on. But I've been seeing a therapist for my anxiety who tells me to listen to her actions and the evidence I see more than her words because she thinks my wife just is unhappy and depressed and lashing out at me and knows my weak spots and what to say. But that is hard to unhear that stuff.

I would be all for separation or divorce. I would be for an open marriage if I thought she was emotionally and sexually mature enough to follow negotiated boundaries. But I do not have any faith she would follow boundaries, not catch feelings, not play with guys on the side outside of whatever negotiated boundaries we had, not get jealous and that it would not turn into retaliation affairs and destroy our marriage. And she has not been down with that idea in any cursory discussion of the idea despite having actually said to me a few times years ago that I should just go get a hooker and leave her alone. Another thing she claims she never said but did. She's lucky I didn't take her seriously and I'm a better man than that.
But I would be all for separation or divorce if I could afford it. I consulted with an attorney and what they told me would likely be my liability for child support and alimony plus the cost to rent even a one bedroom apartment and pay for utilities and food and car insurance and credit card debt in this county would literally be more than 100 percent of my monthly salary. So I literally can't afford to get divorced and start over because I would be paying all my money to subsidize her life while she got to have sex with somebody else and have me foot all the bills. And it would leave me with no money in my 50s and thus zero chance of being attractive to any woman to want to date me and sleep with me. I am very afraid that I run the risk if I got divorced of trading a life where I am miserable because my wife often seems completely checked out of our sex life to a life where I am miserable because I am paying all my money to my ex wife and no woman is willing to look past my economic situation and date me so I have no hope of having any kind of sex with any woman or finding any love again for the rest of my life. That seems even worse than my life now. I hate my wife treating sex like a chore sometimes or talking about it like its a chore even if she doesn't act like it is during sex. But chore sex seems better than no hope of any sex.

[JonnyR]

Acesup — I’m going to shoot you straight, because I think that’s what you actually need right now.

I hear how much effort you’ve put in, and how long you’ve been trying to carry this. You’re not crazy for feeling worn down, confused, and honestly hurt by some of the things she’s said. Anyone would be.

But what you’re describing doesn’t land as just “hormones” anymore.

Hormones can absolutely flatten desire, create that indifference atskitty2 described, and cause mood swings. But they don’t typically explain the pattern you’re seeing — where she’s engaged, responsive, even into it at times… and then swings back to checked out, dismissive, or even cutting.

That inconsistency is telling you something more complex is going on — emotional, psychological, relational… probably layered on top of the hormonal piece, not just caused by it.

And here’s the harder part to sit with:

You’re trying to solve this for her.

You’ve researched, suggested HRT, therapy, toys, communication, everything. But she’s shown you pretty clearly — whether it’s fear, avoidance, denial, or just not being ready — that she’s not going to engage with that right now.

So the real question shifts from:

“How do I fix this?”

to

“What am I willing to keep living with if nothing changes?”

Because right now you’re in a loop where:

• When she shows up ? you feel hope
• When she pulls back ? you feel rejected and confused
• Then you try harder ? and the cycle repeats

That kind of inconsistency is brutal on self-esteem over time.

I already wrote you previously about this issue being not about "bad boy" desire or tendencies but rather more about how YOU are showing up for her - and likely all women in your life.

I referenced that in another thread previously.

One thing you said really stood out to me:

“It’s like her body and her mind are at odds.”

That actually might be one of the most accurate reads in your entire post.

When she’s out of her head, things work. When she’s in it, everything shuts down or flips negative. That’s not something you can outwork with effort — that’s something she would have to become aware of and want to address.

A couple things I’d genuinely be curious about:

When things are good between you — when she’s engaged, responsive, even initiating a bit — what’s different in the hours or day leading up to that? Is she more relaxed, less stressed, more connected to you emotionally?

When she says those really cutting things and later doesn’t remember or denies them — do you think that’s defensiveness, or do you get the sense she’s genuinely disconnected from what she’s saying in those moments?

And maybe the hardest one — if nothing about this dynamic changed over the next 5 years, not better, not worse… just this same cycle — is that a life you can actually accept?

I know you mentioned previously about money, finances, etc., etc with regards to making a change, but it's definitely something you need to think through...

You don’t have to answer that right now. But that’s the level this is operating on now.

You’ve clearly been patient. The next step isn’t more patience — it’s getting clear on your own boundaries and what you actually need to feel wanted, not just accommodated.

[Acesup]

OK I have two followup questions based on things my wife said this weekend.

So as we are fighting about her attitude towards our sex life this weekend and she said none of her friends like having sex with their husbands either this is just what happens to women in their 40s I said well it doesn't have to be you can do something to fight back and try its not a death sentence. And she said it was just temporary it goes away and gets better eventually. Does menopause or peri related drop in libido ever just get better on its own without her doing HRT or medication. I'm willing to be patient if there is hope just not wait years for nothing if there is no hope it'll get better if she doesn't take action.

Later in the fight she said she would look into HRT if I get on an anti depressant for my depression. Which is funny cause the only thing I'm depressed about is my wife doesn't want to have sex and you can't drug that pain away. But I agreed to look into it if she will look into her end. So I need help. What anti depressant can I request that will have the most minimal sexual ED side effects and are there ways to counter act those side effects. I don't want to get ED and hand her the excuse to kill our sex life outright. But what can I take that won't make it harder for me to perform.

And if she doesn't want to do HRT cause I understand there are some minimal risks, but if she doesn't I don't want to force her. is there any other drug or supplement I can suggest with any track record of actually helping her. Ashwaganda? Addyie? Vip Stick? Do any of those products being advertised work at all. I get like one shot at her maybe doing something help herself which will help both of us.

[JonnyR]

Acesup — I’m gonna keep this real and straightforward.

On the “will this just fix itself over time” question… sometimes some menopause symptoms ease up, like hot flashes for certain women.

But the sexual side of things usually doesn’t just magically come back on its own, especially the dryness/pain side. That tends to stick around or even get worse if nothing is done about it. So I wouldn’t hang your entire future on “just wait it out and hope.”

On the antidepressant piece — you’re right to be cautious.

Some of them can absolutely mess with libido and performance. If you’re going to talk to a doctor, just be direct about that concern. There are options out there that tend to have fewer sexual side effects (like bupropion), and doctors deal with this all the time.

It’s not a weird ask. You’re basically saying, “I’m open to help, but I don’t want to make this situation worse,” which is totally reasonable.

As for stuff for her — I’d be careful about going down the rabbit hole of random products.

A lot of that stuff is marketed really aggressively and doesn’t actually solve the root issue. Addyi, for example, isn’t really meant for women in her stage anyway.

The more legit path is usually actual menopause-focused care — even something as simple as local treatments for dryness can make a big difference, depending on what her main issue actually is.

And that’s kind of the bigger question here… what is her actual issue?

Is it physical discomfort? No desire at all? Being stuck in her head? Resentment? Exhaustion? Body image? Because those are all different problems, and they don’t all get fixed the same way.

One thing I’ll say — the fact that she said she’d look into HRT if you look into your side… that might actually be the first small opening you’ve had in a while. Not because it’s some perfect trade, but because it’s at least movement.

So maybe instead of trying to solve everything at once, you zoom in a bit.

What is she actually willing to do — like one real doctor visit, one honest conversation about what she’s feeling in her body?

And on your side, if you did talk to someone, would you be open to framing it less as “fix my depression” and more as “this situation is wearing me down, and I need some support navigating it”?

Because right now this isn’t just a sex problem, it’s a cycle you’re both stuck in. And it’s probably going to take small, real steps from both of you to break it.

[atskitty2]

Acesup This is at least some type of progress, as JonnyR said.

Absolutely discuss antidepressants with your physician, and have a very frank discussion about your concerns in starting these meds. Also, keep in mind that a medication may be only temporary for you. A year or 2 to smooth out the edges, get some perspective and you may be able to wean off and move forward in a better place. Also, she needs to discuss HRT with her physician, and only take what's recommended, in the recommended dosing and frequency. This is very important. I would not recommend winging it with supplements or other compounds, without the very close oversight of a professional with extensive training and experience. There's already so little known, we don't need to add into the mix any chemicals that are not tried and true and known to show benefit, and NOT cause harm. I support using vitamins, supplements and natural means, but this needs to be approached with utmost care, in full transparency with a women's health provider.

I will echo what I said a month or so ago about this being 2 issues. I think you have a wife struggling with hormones, but I think your wife is also generally unhappy and having personal issues that effect you. You cannot solve all those issues for her. Her comments about other men, and what she finds attractive and "wants" is not only rude, but I think it's a not-so-subtle indicator to you that she's checked out. You need to tune into that. Is she checked out because of her issues, or is it because she's exhausted BY you as well?

The signals definitely seems mixed, it is all very confusing, I grant you that. As I've also suggested previously, I think you need to remove the focus from sexual expression, and make it about the relationship. I don't know what the day to day energy is like in your home, but it seems like, from this woman's perspective, you're very driven by the physical, at a time when she has the least to give. Imagine how that makes her feel? Nobody wants to feel pressure, or guilt about something that they can't accomplish at the moment, and probably on some level, she'd like to. It may be a situation that she is pushing back, beginning to be resentful of always feeling like it's never enough. So, she in turn, cranks the knife into you with her comments about bald men...it all seems so ridiculous, in my perspective. Does she feel any concern coming from you? Or is it about sex, all day, every day?

The idea also has to be explored that she really has just lost attraction for you. Have you asked? Open up that dialogue, when the time is right, and help her feel comfortable to be honest, open and have the conversation.

Someone, at some point here, has to be the one to stop this. In other words, someone has to change something they're doing, in order to get a new response. Otherwise, you're both just grinding your gears, punching the same walls, just treading water, while drowning at the same time. Seems like she's made a suggestion (with the medications) that should break up this conversation, and has put the ball in your court. You need to run with that. Show your willingness, participate in this conversation fully, and do what you can to effect change.

I will tell you, in over a year of no sex, my partner never once said anything. Not a word about his needs not being met. Not a word about how bad things were FOR HIM. Instead, what I heard was concern. "Kitty, you just walked 2 circles around the kitchen, poured out your coffee and put the mug in the freezer. Seems like you're having a bad time? Can I help? What's going on for you right now? Talk to me." Not a word about 40 pounds of weight that appeared out of nowhere, on a formerly fit and manicured body. Does she feel that you care about what her experiences have been?
I will be honest, if he came at me with the sort of energy that it seems like you're putting out there toward your wife, I'd be building some major defensiveness and resentment too. I know you're concerned, but for whom? Yourself? or for her? For the relationship? Does she have a clear understanding of this? Or is every conversation about these issues just a contentious, uncomfortable, fight-inducing mess? Hear this, and understand: if a woman does not feel cared-for, heard, supported, acknowledged, respected, loved and fulfilled, she is not likely to be giving and willing to go the extra mile for you. Does she feel this way? Or are your words just a source of hurt? Is it a reminder that she's failing at something else in her life? Is it an indicator to her of your selfishness? Or is she hearing that you care about what she's going through?

All that said, I believe you love and care. And your needs ARE important. But sometimes, we have to set them aside for just a minute to see the bigger picture, to deal with a bigger issue, and get a handle on a situation. We can always rebuild what's been broken down, but the situation has to come down to a quieter level first.

[atskitty2]

PROGRESS UPDATE:

For the women that may be lurking, and the partners that may be in supporting roles, I wanted to share what's been going on since we started treatments.

It has been quite an experience. I am unable to do the exercises and practice as much as is recommended, but I do what I can. Even so, the progress has gone faster than I expected. We are on the 3rd size dilator, and I'm tolerating it only fairly well, so far. I thought this would be a year or more! If I were able to do the dilators as recommended, I'm sure we'd be even further along. We are not close to having intercourse yet, but we do use the therapy time as sex-play time, and it's been amazing! Kinda silly, but it's really fun and so incredibly intimate to work on this thing together.

My testosterone was at zero, so I started the T cream a few weeks ago. We increased the estrogen, and so far, no side effects, nothing concerning, and I'm feeling amazing. I have lost 5 pounds so far, and I do feel like that's going to continue as I get better.

[JonnyR]

atskitty2 Thanks so much for your update here! I know many -- even if I am not a woman -- want to know your progress.

This is so hopeful for me as a man who cares about so many people in his life, not just romantic partners, but his friends, colleagues, and even mother.

When I was younger, I had a big aversion to hormonal therapies, steroids or TRT/HRT. I am happy and proud to say that it's one of the many things I've since changed my mind about, as I also enter into a stage in my life where it's becoming more and more likely that I'll be taking them as well.

We should all feel our absolute best -- and when the gas tank is on empty, it's not our fault.

But it is our responsibility to ourselves and those we love to figure out what is going on, why it's happening, and try and reverse it if we can, not just for our sake, but for the lives we come in contact with every day, and where we should be giving our best.

[atskitty2]

ANOTHER UPDATE:

Unfortunately, I've had a little setback for which I'm still waiting for resolution.

I had period-like cramping and bleeding one day, which was pretty miserable after over 10 years of menopause. I've had an ultrasound (normal) and I have another pelvic exam scheduled next week. It's been discouraging, but otherwise, everything seems to still be going ok. I'm optimistic that this just means we need to make adjustments. The testosterone has definitely increased my libido and interest in sex, so...I think I'm annoying my man with all the butt-taps, crotch-grabbing and comments on his legs and anatomy. It's been fun to get that playfulness and energy back.

More to come!

[JonnyR]

atskitty2 I LOVE the increase in libido and energy you're experiencing! That's so fantastic!

I also really love hearing these updates; they are so helpful for all of us out there considering HRT and/or looking out for those we care about.

Good luck with everything, and I hope you figure out your next steps without too much disruption and continued improvements.

[atskitty2]

Had my follow-up and was all good news. Will continue with the doses and timing as we were for now, nothing of any concern on the ultrasound.

Ladies, if you've started hormones and you're navigating through some changes with your body, and your doctor is recommending testing, just please follow the directions and work through it closely with your doctor. It's a process, and it's a little bit like being 13 again and understanding the new normals of our body. Be patient, be kind to yourself and see it through.