[Little]

It's hard for me to take your argument seriously when you're choosing the wrong homonyms and therefore creating double entendres.

But as far as I'm concerned ... my definition of "virginity" has nothing to do with being religious, nothing to do with going to the big fiery place, and nothing to do with purity.
Oral sex isn't "sex."Anal sex, like CW said, has its own set of virginity. And hymens have nothing to do with it either as I certainly didn't lose my virginity gradually over the years to the physical process of pedaling a bicycle. Did I?
A virgin is a person who hasn't had sex. So what's sex?
Traditionally, penetrative vaginal intercourse between a man and a woman.
What about a rape victim? Personally, as a rape victim, I feel like sex is something that someone has to consent to, and if a person isn't consenting to a sexual act it's automatically rape. Sex isn't something you can do to a person, but something that has to be participated in. Sure, it's semantics, but I like semantics. It's probably one of my favorite subjects.
And for people interacting with the same sex, I say whatever the "hallmark" sexual act of that particular union, anal sex for male homosexuals and oral or manual sex, maybe with toys depending on how you look at it, for female homosexuals. I've "had sex with" a girl, but in this case I'm counting oral sex as the sex in question.
It's complicated, but you shouldn't laugh at someone for their beliefs if they're not being complete hypocrites. I stand by the principle of "everything but."

[Uneeklyme]

It's hard for me to take your argument seriously when you're choosing the wrong homonyms and therefore creating double entendres.

The definitions I gave for virgin and sex/sexual intercourse are direct copy and paste from dictionarydotcom,freedicionary,merriam-webster, wiki and other such places. The religious definition is included in many of them.

Oral sex isn't "sex."Anal sex, like CW said, has its own set of virginity. And hymens have nothing to do with it either as I certainly didn't lose my virginity gradually over the years to the physical process of pedaling a bicycle. Did I?

Hymen is not a word used in any of the definitions. As Ive stated previously, the hymen can be torn or broken by anything, even riding your bike so no, the hymen is not a defining factor in virginity.

A virgin is a person who hasn't had sex. So what's sex?
Traditionally, penetrative vaginal intercourse between a man and a woman.

Traditionally PIV but standard definition includes oral and anal. Tradionally... penetrative vaginal intercourse between a man and a woman... gay men and lesbians would always be virgins. Traditionally, virginity also symbolizes purity. Some of the sites I looked at even included digital and toys. Pushing the issue IMO but the way it is. Not one of the definitions included belief.

Sure, it's semantics, but I like semantics. It's probably one of my favorite subjects.

Funny how words take on different meanings in different contexts even if its the same subject.

It's complicated, but you shouldn't laugh at someone for their beliefs if they're not being complete hypocrites. I stand by the principle of "everything but."
If your addressing me with this, I was not laughing at anyone for their beliefs. That would make me a hypocrit. Do I understand correctly when you state "everything but" to mean you feel your a virgin until PIV sex has occured excluding those "hallmark" act in same sex?

2


Agreed if anal, then your no longer a Virgin "there"... Oral, then your not a virgin there.


So be that as it may....


If a female has NOT been penetrated "there", guess what?


CW

I do understand how it can be broken down into areas. However, the definitions of viginity do not discriminate by hole or partial penetration. I also do not feel that digital stimulation counts. If we split hairs on which hole counts as being a virgin then anyone can be a virgin, even a prostitute or porn star. I get how beliefs and standards can govern how one feels about virginity. I really am not a complete by the book person but I do think to debate a point facts must be taken into consideration in their entirety.
I have children. In my mommieness, sex is strictly defined by webster or britanica. I guess my medical studies play a part in that too. I dont want my children to be under the impression that it's not sex and they are virgins and as long as they don't have vaginal sex anything goes. The same diseases and stigmas happen with oral and anal.

[CHANDLERS WISH]

Uneeklyme

I do understand how it can be broken down into areas. However, the definitions of viginity do not discriminate by hole or partial penetration.

Well

I also agree with homonyms as Little declared for the simple reasoning of the following: -

Uneeklyme

Traditionally, virginity also symbolizes purity.

So... You have anal sex... You are not pure... Consequently you are not a Virgin in that region.

You have Oral sex.. You are not pure. Consequently "your mouth is not a Virginal part of your body"

You have 1 inch penetration but not deep penetration in your virgina.

Mmm... Double meaning. So, you are partiually not a Virgin in that particular area, yet a Full Virgin where deep penetration goes...

The simple facts are as Miffed23 pointed out.. There are grey areas and it all balls down to interpretation..

Different cultures, religions, and spiritual beliefs, (not relgious), pertain to interpretation of what constitutes a Virgin and what does not.

How can anyone win? You can't... You take what you want to believe.

For instance:- Quoted from the same source Uneeklyme viewed:-

"Foreplay - Virginity"...

To preserve Virginity and avoid Pregnancy.

"Oral and Anal".....

Is intercourse...

"Virginity"

Never been engaged with sexual intercourse.

"Born Again Virgin"

A spiritual concept of Virginity and acceptable.

[CHANDLERS WISH]

Sorry having difficulties with this computer it sent before i finished, hense the word "Why" without anything else following:-

In addition to Virginity I looked up Foreplay verses Virginity, as i feel that my thoughts/opinions have to be in there somewhere?

"Foreplay - Virginity"...

To preserve Virginity and avoid Pregnancy.
So it can be perceived as you are a Virgin but can still utilise foreplay.. Let's face it that is what we were bought up to believe anyway.

"Oral and Anal".....

Is intercourse...

Well, to me Oral is foreplay but okay.. It's a part of our body that consists of a hole.

Never disputed your not a Virgin in that area, if you have had sexual intercourse there.

"Virginity"

Never been engaged with sexual intercourse.

As i said, so 1 inch means partiual lose of virginity? Where nil deep penetration in this above contexts means a Virgin with deep penetrartion of sexual intercourse.

"Born Again Virgin"

A spiritual concept of Virginity and acceptable.

Mmmm... Sorry it was in there, as acceptable and that made me a Born Again Virgin whom is not at present, but was.

I think pertaining to children, and what to explain to them?

Is a matter in how you view it... Of course you can gain STI/STD from any form of sex, oral, anal or virginal... That is a different issue.

But Virginity?

I futher did read, where it did state, that some cultures define you are in fact still a Virgin if the virginity was non consentual.

I do not think we can debate facts here, rather personal beliefs based on the wide spread beliefs around the world and formulate our own "opinion" on how we percieve virginity and where, as individuals.

CW

[Little]

Achuwie, Uneeklyme, I was teh tawkin about teh "wholes" in teh givun defunishun of teh verjinnities by teh OPz0rz.
Ahem, my whole response was pointed towards the OP.

[damd]

First, I don't think we can deny the religious origins of virginity. The greeks had virgins in thier temples to please thier gods. Many other cultures used virgins in their religious rituals including sacrifical.
Currently, there are web sites devoted to christians to side step the loss of viginity by promoting anal and oral sex. (And I agree with uneeklyme on the obvious title, anal sex and oral sex) What a farse. This is actually what got me going on the tangent in the first place. The arguement, of course, is that both are not vaginal sex and niether of which violates thier deffinition of virginity. I'm sorry but that type of logic makes me want to pull my hair out. People who insist that they are a virgin after engaging in sexual acts reminds me of Ice Age 2, where Elle was insisting that she was a possom when clearly she was a mammoth.
I think people need to call it for what it is. You want to stay a virgin, don't engage in sexual acts. There is a fine line between foreplay and sexual acts, but you have to know when you past that line. As soon as another person is in physical contact with your genitalia, or they have there genitalia in contact with you, you've past the line. A penis is in your mouth, not a virgin. I think my thoughts are tyied into my belief that purity and viriginty are synonymous. A person trying to stay, or recapture, purity after engaging in sex is ... don't have the right word. But it's futile, your virginity is gone. Sorry if it doesn't make you feel better about yourself, but it is what it is. Life is like that.

[CHANDLERS WISH]

Well kissing is a form of foreplay, but i don't believe that that constitutes you not being a Virgin, if you kissed someone... I think that we may agree upon.

The fact that i am somewhat older than the typical Virgin, then I was a true Virgin at the time, i lost my Virginity which therefore, i followed your theory..

Instilled as a child i assume.

damd
You want to stay a virgin, don't engage in sexual acts.

Sure, i see the true "purity" of this.. The rare purity as perhaps, as it's 2000, the concept of total virginity in all manners is out the door.

damd
The arguement, of course, is that both are not vaginal sex and niether of which violates thier deffinition of virginity.

This to me is an alternative, to still wishing to remain in some form of "pure" state, but unfortunately, tell me... What man is willing for a young lady to do so, without any form of foreplay what so ever, on an on-going basis of some 2 - 4 years, prior to marriage?

Have the younger generation truly not changed in their mentality of the whole area pertaining to sex.

Have in-deed not the older generation of what they were taught?

Again, not argueing at all.. I clearly see your thoughts. But, in the above scenario, all i can truly is from every thread i have read here for-instance, regarding "Virgins" it is how do i give better BJ's, or I can't orgasm from him utilising his finger, etc etc.

The only opinions that i can derive at in all honesty, is the world has changed and we change with it, or else we remain in a very distant alone world.

CW

[miffed23]

Does it not just boil down to the person in question? I mean, i would say that i lost my virginity the moment i took my pants off infront of a man. Then, you get the silly little 15 year olds that have done oral / anal / fondling whatever and theyre like...im pure, im white...im waiting until marriage. These girls are dirtier than me, yet class themselves as virgins....

Its bullpoo.

Everything is frowned upon, yet everyone seems to get away with it... (im being general throwing words around like 'everyone')

Im stroppy now...

[Uneeklyme]

Well kissing is a form of foreplay, but i don't believe that that constitutes you not being a Virgin, if you kissed someone... I think that we may agree upon.

I agree. Kissing constitutes foreplay but I am not sure how it is considered sexual. It can lead to other acts but kissing in itself...nope, not anything near intercourse.

This to me is an alternative, to still wishing to remain in some form of "pure" state, but unfortunately, tell me... What man is willing for a young lady to do so, without any form of foreplay what so ever, on an on-going basis of some 2 - 4 years, prior to marriage?

What comes to mind for me is stuff like teens these days that have sex parties. The girls blow 7 guys in a row then the seven of them take turns having anal sex with each girl. They go to these parties every weekend. Like Miff said.... dirtier than even me but they still call themselves virgins because they havent had vaginal sex?
[/quote]

Achuwie, Uneeklyme, I was teh tawkin about teh "wholes" in teh givun defunishun of teh verjinnities by teh OPz0rz.
Ahem, my whole response was pointed towards the OP.

Gotcha. Just clarifying.

You want to stay a virgin, don't engage in sexual acts. There is a fine line between foreplay and sexual acts, but you have to know when you past that line. As soon as another person is in physical contact with your genitalia, or they have there genitalia in contact with you, you've past the line.

Foreplay... arousing acts leading up to or preparing for sexual intercourse. I believe that foreplay does not constitute loss of virginity. Kissing, licking, rubbing, grinding, heavy petting...all foreplay. I do agree there is a fine line between foreplay and sex. I dont think anyone is disputing the fact that foreplay does not mean your no longer a virgin. I don't believe a hand job constitutes loss of virginity or purity. Maybe just some innocense?

again, great subject and the different views on it are interesting.

[CHANDLERS WISH]

I guess that poses another question pertaining to "purity"....as the Threader's comments are based more so on the purity of a woman...

Uneeklyme

I dont think anyone is disputing the fact that foreplay does not mean your no longer a virgin. I don't believe a hand job constitutes loss of virginity or purity. Maybe just some innocense?

I agree absolutely with the above regarding virginity...and the methods of natural touching....... But i would imagine a hand job to have lost that purity... in the threaders point of view, as genitals are touched.

Interesting.....

Miffed 23
Does it not just boil down to the person in question?

As i said in my earlier posts, i believe so... It can only really be defined of your own beliefs/thoughts as it is so wide spread.

Miffed 23
Then, you get the silly little 15 year olds that have done oral / anal / fondling whatever and theyre like...im pure, im white...im waiting until marriage.

Uneeklyme

The girls blow 7 guys in a row then the seven of them take turns having anal sex with each girl. They go to these parties every weekend.

It's strange how you can look at both of those scenarios and an immediate word springs to mind? Imagine if you then went to their wedding, what would your honest thoughts be when the Priest says anyone object? And, the future husband is standing their smiling of his beautiful virginal wife to be? With no previous knowledge... Think i would have to stay away from the wedding...

Im stroppy now...

That never lasts for long, around 10 seconds.... lol..

CW