[ren_07]

Thank you caterpiller. I agree, we ARE in a relationship. He has tried to claim that we are still single when he gets flustered but I am quick to point out that single people aren't exclusive like us and it would definitely NOT be ok for the other to fool around. And he agreed.

The relationship grows everytime we're together. We've come along way from the instant connection we felt in April. And he was so different from other guys who have been pressuring me for sex more than a relationship. He took me out on dates and stuff before any physical intimacy was there and he wanted it to be slow.

I will be as patient as I can, but there's always a certain point where you go, "This is foolish." Usually when you meet someone else I guess. This is also difficult for me because I've never had sex with any kind of attachment or relationship, just bootycalls. I lost my virginity on a guy's bedroom floor because he was horny and I was vulnerable.
So this current boy has a lot of potential to do some damage.

I'm doing my best to resist falling or anything as you've said. Again that can only last for so long, but it can't go very deep if he's not reciprocating I suppose. I don't want to have to separate myself from him for so long to evaluate us like you had to, I went through a lot of that this past year with my ex of three years and it ended in disaster. I guess we all get burnt sometimes and need to just take that risk. It's worth it to me.

[caterpillar79]

Well, it is not easy. Honestly, I didn't see us coming a long way like we have now. We didn't see us being back together as a couple. When we got back, we were friends - very open and very supportive of each other. We even called each other bro/sis. Funny, isn't it?

Back then, I kept reminding myself that I will keep my guard. I did to some extent, but I was devastated when we parted. On his end, he didn't expect that the impact would be that much as well. He had to take two days or a day off from work (I don't remember well...) to mourn and "gather" himself together. I had to do the same.

He drank more and more...I stayed distant with people. Finally, we broke the silence and decided that hey, we can grow together...what the heck are we doing? And the rest is history...It was long...I didn't wait really. I just let time do its course. We both went into counseling. It made a difference, it hastened our healing.

As for you, you don't have to wait. Just enjoy the moment and grow. Watch yourselves grow together...it is fun. It will be easier on your end because you both were acquainted with each other's family - more support! In order for you to keep balanced, have your ME time regularly. Don't let your world revolve around him. You are you, and you choose to be happy everyday. He just adds to your happiness, he is not your eveything.

The fact that he's taking it slow with you is a very positive sign. He is almost ready for the real thing. He is on the right track. I've seen that with my BF. I am the first GF he's had this long, and serious...the first to be introduced to the family, and I felt priviledged.

When you keep growing together, it is a good sign that you are with the right person.

[Livelaughlove]

There could be many problems here. Most of which are psychological. Because of his past, a "relationship" has become an anchor to pain and distrust. Which is the reason why he rejects it but still keeps you interested by spending time with you. Its his way to have his cake and eat it too.

Men are very simple creature believe it or not. All you have to do is make it so that being in a relationship is what will make him happy while not will make him miserable. You also have to do this in a way that makes it his idea so he doesn't reject it. (Cunning isn't it )

Before I go into this, you have to know that this will only make him want to be in a relationship with you. Men like this are typically insecure and will become very jealous the more and more you get to know them. Just be aware once he starts getting upset at you for not calling at certain times or keeping in touch. Or using your time together as a punishment reward system....

On to the convincing:

What you have to do is pretty much re frame the situation. Before you do this you have to know what a BOYFRIEND means to him.

• You have to find his positive views on what a boyfriend is! Make it so he is already experiencing it with you. Its what makes him happy. Use events you've experienced together so he cant reject it
• You have to find what his negative views on what a boyfriend is. Convince him that, its what he experiences with other people but not with you. Then reinforce the positive traits with you.

You'll know your doing it right because he will agree with you more and more... To the point where he just says "YOUR RIGHT"

You have to use FACTS and EXAMPLES to convince any man anything.

Here is an example.

HIM: I dont want to be a boyfriend!
You:

#1 What does a boyfriend mean to you?

#2What does a being a boyfriend allow you to experience? The positives and the negatives... Then relate your time together to the positives while his time alone to the negatives.

#3There are no single people out there. A relationship isn’t a thing it is a process and because we are enjoying the way we are relating when we are together it can last into a secure relationship that has more meaning on all levels. Right? We have fun when we are together right? See being a boyfriend is not just a label, instead its a mindset.

Then just repeat.

Hope this helps

Live laugh and love

[Livelaughlove]

Since they've broken up a few years ago, he has had numerous one night stands at school and nothing more.

Also might like to point out that he may fear of being a boyfriend or of keeping you interested. Which may explain the O.N.S or keeping you at bay. Some men cant handle the thought of not keeping a women interested or being boring to the point where the women has to look elsewhere..

A mans ego is just as important as his PENIS! We all know how fascinated men are with there members! OR if you dont you should!

The ONS is a way to get that emotional satisfaction that comes from being with a women but makes the mans ego safe from thinking that she only has one night of happiness therefore "She'll never know that IM not that interesting"

Pay attention to his fears and his objections when your talking about it.

Live laugh and love

[ren_07]

Haha I'm glad you responded to this. You're very insightful. The only issue I see is that we really have only had this whole "commitment" or whatever talk once yesterday. While he was drunk and arguing with me for being upset over his friend hitting on me, he made the comment that we're both single as ever so it shouldn't matter and that he's sorry. And I said whatever and he said "did you feel like there was a connection between us?" and I said "yes.." and he goes "Me too. A little."

I KNOW HE FEELS IT HE'S JUST SO SCARED AND FOR WHATEVER REASON SUPPRESSES IT!!!

I guess I really do need to try getting to know what he feels is negative about relationships and then taking the opposite spin, but that'll be hard to do without being blunt. Coyness will take practice. As far as I know, he already hates it when a girl is not exclusive to him and causes him jealousy issues. Should I be trying to prove to him that I want to be exclusive and see no one else? I don't want to give up my guy social life if he isn't giving up his girls though. That's controlling.

Thank you again though, I really appreciate it

[ren_07]

That first story in the paragraph was the first time commitment ever came up in May. The conversation yesterday was more calm and practical. A lot of "I don't knows" were said during it. Nothing's definable. But the conversation made us closer. And I also meant he feels negatively about a "girl talking to a guy who likes her" kind of thing and gets jealous cause I would assume he was cheated on or something, which probably explains him not wanting to admit he can't keep a woman's interest as you said. But he probably wouldn't see the harm in a "girl talking to him who likes him" scenario. Very confusing.

[Livelaughlove]

Haha I'm glad you responded to this. You're very insightful.

I know ... See your getting good at flattering a mans ego. haha

The only issue I see is that we really have only had this whole "commitment" or whatever talk once yesterday.

Wrong!! You have it every time you talk to a guy and he gets jealous. Or rules of your relationship comes up...

While he was drunk and arguing with me for being upset over his friend hitting on me, he made the comment that we're both single as ever so it shouldn't matter and that he's sorry.

Few things:

1. Your "while he was drunk" remark tells me that your trying to justify his behavior on the alcohol. Which not only tells me that your accepting this behavior but your not holding him accountable for his actions. The truth is being drunk doesn't make you a different person. It only alters your feelings of fear and decreases your ability to sensor yourself in fear of others not liking what you say. Which is the reason why alot of drunk people are rude.

2. The comment of "single as ever" is his way to hurt you. He knows that you want a relationship. So he is using this information against you, to control you. His comment was his way of letting you know that he didn't like what you did so he reaffirms that your not together. He is using the relationship as a way to control your actions. The only reason why he said he was sorry was because its a way for him to soften the argument. Using reverse psychology. It was for you to work harder to be with him.

This is the typical mind games of insecure men!!!

And I said whatever and he said "did you feel like there was a connection between us?" and I said "yes.." and he goes "Me too. A little."

This again was him saying "You worked hard for that connection but because of your actions you lost a few points"

Pay attention to these attacks!

I KNOW HE FEELS IT HE'S JUST SO SCARED AND FOR WHATEVER REASON SUPPRESSES IT!!!

Once a man begins to talk to women they typically come to realize that WOMEN LOVE THE CHASE. As long as its always within there reach. However, some men use this to control women while others use it to tease and make the relationship fun and exciting.

I guess I really do need to try getting to know what he feels is negative about relationships and then taking the opposite spin, but that'll be hard to do without being blunt. Coyness will take practice. As far as I know, he already hates it when a girl is not exclusive to him and causes him jealousy issues.

Its insecurity mostly. A feeling of low self worth.

Should I be trying to prove to him that I want to be exclusive and see no one else? I don't want to give up my guy social life if he isn't giving up his girls though. That's controlling.

I wish I could tell you that just prove your love to him and he will fall in your arms. While that is great to say and think IT WILL NOT HAPPEN.

The more you prove your love to him the more he will take advantage of it. This is a delicate situation. Believe it or not you have to play a very smart game of jealousy and showing him that he is NO. 1.

You create too much jealousy and he will be intimidated and cut his losses to protect his ego. You show him that your too interested and he will feel like you will always be there and treat you like sh__!

Thank you again though, I really appreciate it

And I also meant he feels negatively about a "girl talking to a guy who likes her" kind of thing and gets jealous cause I would assume he was cheated on or something, which probably explains him not wanting to admit he can't keep a woman's interest as you said. But he probably wouldn't see the harm in a "girl talking to him who likes him" scenario. Very confusing.

Remember what I said about a mans ego!? Men just like women need to feel desired. However for men its a way to prove to his ego that he has all these women fawning over him. Not confusing at all

However, If a guy is talking to you it means he now has competition. WHICH is BAD BAD NEWS to a man with low self esteem.

Hope this helps

Live laugh and love

[ren_07]

Wow.

See that's why I wanted Rei to make you respond lol

From what it sounds, I need to gain some control here to make him want me as more than we are. By me being the way we are, he feels no need to push it further. And yes, he is VERY VERY insecure. I didn't need you or anyone with half a brain to analyze that part of him. It's so obvious. And the sad thing is, I want to be the girl who makes him stop worrying if I'll hurt or leave him. But it's costing me a lot. I can't prove it to him though unless he let's me in and puts that masculine guard down.

I know he's capable of being the boyfriend guy. He's been that man before and can do it again. But what am I to do when he lashes with hurtful remarks to get control? I have no clue what to say because I feel if I speak up against him, he'll write me off somehow to protect his heart and ego. All because he's scared I'll hurt him.

Maybe this just needs time to grow and earn his trust more. I mean after so many months, you should figure out that I'm not going anywhere. You said he knows I want a relationship, so maybe I need to scare him into thinking I don't so he works at it more. But again, I don't know where to start in my actions or behaviors. Or if this could infact yield the opposite.

I definitely don't spend 24/7 with him. We talk everyday, but we see each other maybe twice a week. We have some distance between us and I totalled my car this summer so it's been more difficult. I have a very active social life with my friends and some other guy friends and he knows that. But I guess it's not enough to make him want to go the extra mile.

[WildChild]

[QUOTE=ren_07;97463] And yes, he is VERY VERY insecure. I didn't need you or anyone with half a brain to analyze that part of him. the opposite.

QUOTE]

Oh I couldn't resist this one. Are you saying LLL has half a brain?
LOL LOL

[baja]

> I know he's capable of being the boyfriend guy. He's been that man before and can do > it again.

Honestly, it always amazes me the extent to which women believe they can change the guy they are with for the better when the harsher reality is staring them in the face.

Ren_07, I truly admire your steadfastness -- I really do -- but clearly your bf will need SERIOUS work to get over his issues. My question to you is how much time are you willing to invest in this effort when there are so many other fish in the sea?

I've seen this before... you could achieve the happiness and relationship you want 2-3 months from now with a new guy that could take 2-3 YEARS with your current bf. My question to you is, what is so special about this guy that warrants heroics on your part to help make the relationship work? Did he save you from a burning building or something?

Objectively, I see YOU expending the majority of the energy to help him deal with HIS issues. If he doesn't change, or, you miss out on someone great along the way, where will this all leave you?