[Ashlee T.]

So, we should be wary of suggesting that if someone doesn't appear to be confident, strong, or assertive, that they aren't.

"I think anyone would acknowledge that his perception of her isn't neccesarily who she is, nor does it mean that if she is perceived as intimidating this automatically means she's strong, independent and classy. "

I definitely agree with that.

[snuffie]

Personally I don't feel that I am trying to prove anything about myself, my life to anybody, I believe I am just being "me".
If you are honestly confident in yourself and have the traits that have being discussed, I very much doubt that a person would feel the need or act in a way that way striving to show off theses traits, surely they would be happy in their own skin and confident enough to act as themselves, not having to outwardly prove anything to anyone.....just a thought

[cocoa]

"I think anyone would acknowledge that his perception of her isn't neccesarily who she is, nor does it mean that if she is perceived as intimidating this automatically means she's strong, independent and classy. "

I definitely agree with that.

This was what i was attempting to say in a nutshell, but didn't get across very well. thx.

[hizenberg]

'you are woman hear her roar!!' lol sorry i dont know, i have been told i was intimidating to guys because i seemed like i was 'a wild lover' i took this as they where implying i was a s*^t lol lol but in fact they said it was because of my happy go lucky personality, im actualley like a fish out of water in the bedroom lol lol guys are weird do's lol
somthing to do with the threat of their 'manlyness' being out shined gets some guys shaking, the good ones will love the 'challenge' who knows, im not even making sense on this !! lol seeya

[p3375]

"somthing to do with the threat of their 'manlyness' being out shined gets some guys shaking, the good ones will love the 'challenge' who knows, im not even making sense on this !! lol "- hizenberg

Actually, I think there is something to that. What I mean is that it seems some guys are threatened by a woman who is sexually assertive. Ok ok,,, not all guys. But cetainly a good many of them.
Pat

[Maximus]

"intimidating" females..interesting...
Well, few good points have been raised.
The common denominator is certainly the level of confidence of a woman carries herself with.
Whether the confidence comes from an academic background, life's experiences or physical training.

Some men would prefer to deal only with these women, because they feel like dealing with their equal.
Not willing to hang out with a weakling. No disrespect

The fact is when we raise the level a bit, the so-called confidence is not that important after all.
Only remains how much we identify ourselves with the person we are with.

[WildChild]

Was discussing this the other day with a woman I met while working. I had removed 16 - 18 cu yds of debris from a property and she is a metal scrapper. She took some of the last of the metal and then went across the road to pick up more. We were talking about men's attitudes toward women who do labor/construction type work. She is ex military, a very attractive woman, really physically strong, her grip is stronger than many men's. We had some similar experiences in that men tend to be skittish about us and we tend to end up getting taken advantage of by men who put up a front and seem to be caring but are really just looking for a caretaker at some or all levels.

Her attitude was if they can't handle a strong woman, they aren't much of a man. SHe does have what sounds like a pretty good relationship. We were very much in agreement that just because we work along side men and enjoy sex doesn't mean wouldn't like an opportunity to clean up, dress up and have a little hearts and flowers and romance. We don't get it. There seems to be an attitude that only women who have to be enticed into sex and who are high maintence for arousal need to be 'romanced'. Those of us who enjoy and want sex seem not to be much valued for it and there seems to be an attitude that we are just available at the drop of a hat so no effort is requred to show any tenderness or caring and by the way can I borrow your table saw?

[pretzel]

WC, interesting point and one that I think may be pretty relevant.

What I think it boils down to is the changing attitudes between the sexes. And as your friend said, many men tend to be skittish around someone who doesn't fit the stereotypical female role. But who's problem is that. I don't think it's yours.

And yes you may borrow any tool I own.

[cocoa]

First, arrogance and confidence are not synonyms.

Second, this sense that "someone can't handle me or handle this" is ridiculous. Why do you need to be handled? Is that where your value stems from - that they can't handle you; they're not your equal? Seriously?

Everyone will find different qualities appealing, both men and women, and for differing reasons.

The real issue is whether if you do get in to a relationship, is if you find a partner who respects and appreciates you without you needing to be tough or "intimidating" to deserve it. Some men are attracted to the "intimidating" woman not because they want someone who is an equal. Sometimes, it's simply because they think, "she won't expect that much from me, and so i don't have to work as hard at the relationship."

And who exactly is a "weakling"? Because by the definitions indicated here, women i've seen work hard over the years to support and sustain their families through personal, emotional, and social compromises and sacrifices would be considered weaklings because they're not intimidating or "assertive" enough. But you can be sure they have the support and loyalty of their families.

As women, why are we putting each other into limited and narrow categories? Aren't we beyond this?

And why continue to defer to cliched male and female stereotypes? Because if we can say "men can't do this or men don't appreciate that . . ." then we're simply reinforcing the stereotype, and creating an atmosphere of even more defensiveness from the group you're criticizing, which doesn't really solve anything, does it? We're simply reinforcing comfortable stereotypes which support feelings, rather than the reality.

[sourpuss]

Was discussing this the other day with a woman I met while working. I had removed 16 - 18 cu yds of debris from a property and she is a metal scrapper. She took some of the last of the metal and then went across the road to pick up more. We were talking about men's attitudes toward women who do labor/construction type work. She is ex military, a very attractive woman, really physically strong, her grip is stronger than many men's. We had some similar experiences in that men tend to be skittish about us and we tend to end up getting taken advantage of by men who put up a front and seem to be caring but are really just looking for a caretaker at some or all levels.

Her attitude was if they can't handle a strong woman, they aren't much of a man. SHe does have what sounds like a pretty good relationship. We were very much in agreement that just because we work along side men and enjoy sex doesn't mean wouldn't like an opportunity to clean up, dress up and have a little hearts and flowers and romance. We don't get it. There seems to be an attitude that only women who have to be enticed into sex and who are high maintence for arousal need to be 'romanced'. Those of us who enjoy and want sex seem not to be much valued for it and there seems to be an attitude that we are just available at the drop of a hat so no effort is requred to show any tenderness or caring and by the way can I borrow your table saw?

I've found that being a strong, independent woman to be a HUGE catch-22. I think the same reason that men are attracted to being friends with me are the same reasons that they don't want to date me. Guys claim to not like the headachey, high-maintenance girls, but at the end of the day, when they have a gal that is completely self-sufficient and confident....where do they fit in? Guys (like all people) need to be needed and if a girl doesn't need anyone it leaves them feeling like they don't have much to contribute/conquer in the relationship.