[Guest]

CW,

What has she said, or what did you offer that she has refused?

She is very "selective" as to where I am "allowed" to help her financially.....and frankly, I think it's bunk! An example: It's okay, for a while if I pay for her to have a "full monty brazilian" wax job done. The cost is about $150 -200 plus tip every six weeks or so, because "we" benefit from it. It's NOT okay that I pay a $50.00 light bill or mortgage payment because "I" don't benefit from it since we don't live together.

Eventually, she feels guilty about me paying for her "wax jobs" and stops letting me do so. Then she wants me to use wax strips or other types of wax on her, myself, in order to save money. Sorry, but I'm not interested in hurting her by attempting to wax her.

I "benefit" from EVERYTHING I do for her because it generally A) relieves her of some stress which in turn means less stress in our relationship, or B) I benefit directly in some manner like her being waxed....yes, I'm a pig...I prefer it that way.

I feel like I'm receivng mixed messages. Ugh!

Thanks for letting me vent and trying to help me work through this...............IT'S JUST MONEY!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

[CHANDLERS WISH]

lol's yep it's venting, yep it's just money, yep she's independent, yep she loves you anyway

Deal with it as you can't change one word and that word is MORALS

[Guest]

COLORADO,

Having read and re-read and re-read your reply post to this thread, I realize that I was completely off base and totally misunderstood what it was that you were trying to say to me.

Not only that, but instead of taking your reply as helpful, I took ot as offensive, when clearly it was not.

Once I took offense to your reply, as wrong as that was, I thne went on the attack by asking you "if you even read my posts?" When in fact, I should have directed that question to myself and not someone who was merely trying to help me.

For all of this, I apologize openly and honestly.

Whether or not you accept my apology is completely up to you. All I can do is extend one, as an olive branch, in an effort to correct wrongs that I created.

This is a terrific forum with many unique and thoughtful individuals, who all have their own opinions and ideas. All of whom are trying to help.

I should have received your post in exactly the manner it was offered......as help. Clearly I did not and for that I am deeply sorry.

Seeker

[Ashlee T.]

Seeker - Dude...it's a big deal to her....which means it doesn't have to be a big deal to you, and you don't have to understand why it's a big deal to her...you just have to understand that it is, and try to respect what she is/isn't comfortable with. Also understand the fact that at this point you two are just dating (even though you have bigger plans...). No strong, independent woman wants to feel like she has to be financially supported by a man she's dating. Especially not one trying to raise strong independent kiddos.

Accepting a "gift" from your fella to get something like a wax, a mani, a pedi...is TOTALLY different than accepting money from your fella to pay utilities or house bills (on a house he doesn't even live in). One of those things is a luxury...a "pampering"....and the other is a necessity. Take it from a woman who has never let any man pay ANY of her bills. It's very different.

[Guest]

Significant financial gifts were given to all six of our children yesterday. You should have seen the reactions. You would have thought that the children had either seen a ghost or the second coming of... Everyone was overwhelmend with joy, great thanks, etc., etc., etc. Each of the recipients had vastly different ideas for how they were going to use their money. All were asked to give the first ten percent to a charity of their choosing so that others may benefit.

I think the woman I love spent a lot of her day crying tears of joy. She had no idea that the children would respond in ways that they did. It was wonderful. Today has been a day of receiving texts, e-mails and phone calls from young adults who are just stunned by my "generosity". Some have already given their first ten percent to their charity of their choice.

It's been an amazing 36 hours.

[JadedQueen]

First let me start by saying you sound like a very generous man that truely loves not only this woman but her children and you want to do any and everything to ease any burdens (and I don't think it's limited to financial burdens but ALL burdens) of this woman that you deeply love. I think it's wonderful of you and you have a great attitude (I love the 10% donation to the charity of their choice)
One thing I know from my own experience... when it comes to money people act differently and have their own I don't know if you would call it morals, values, beliefs? But money and finances affect people differently. I think a lot has to do with how you were raised, past experiences with/without money, various struggles, or never wanting for anything because you could always afford whatever you wanted. These things are engrained in us all and it's difficult to change how we feel about money from what we have learned and experienced throughout our lives.
I don't know anything about this womans background if she came from a rich, middle class, or poor family growing up and during her previous marriage how her finances were etc.... but I personally feel that all of those experiences contribute to how people feel and relate to financial issues.

When my marriage was on the rocks I was miserable and wanted to get a divorce but I was financially unable to leave so I stayed in a miserable marriage for several years steadily working towards being financially self sufficent and I vowed that I would NEVER rely on a man financially EVER again. Those years of misery really changed me and I make sure that regardless of the status of my relationship I am able to cover the bills without any financial help from anyone because I don't want to ever RELY on someone financially, I don't ever want to be stuck in a relationship because of financial reasons, and I don't want to feel like I owe anyone anything. Some of it is a pride thing also.
Have you ever just gone to the electric company and paid her bill? If so was she upset that you did that? What about giving her a gift of a prepaid credit card for her to use as she pleases and continue to put money on it for those waxes, sexy nighty's, or whatever she wants for "the two of you" and if she gets in a financial bind she can use it for whatever bill... with the prepaid cards there is no statement so if the money is a pride thing that might take that aspect out of it? There are other little things you can do that will help financially... like "borrow" her car and fill it up with gas, get the oil changed etc....
Sorry it's not very good advice but honestly unless you know her financial background it's hard to know how to understand why she adamantly won't accept financial help from you when she needs it.
You said you have been together for 3 years... and you plan on long term... why have you not moved in together?

[Guest]

Jaded,

As I frequently get timed out in here and don't know how to create the little quote bubbles of you verbage, I will do my best to answer your questions and some very key points that you have raised. Please bare with me as I am an admitted technology moron.

I was raised in an upper middle class family and she was raised in an average middle class family I have lived in my car, slept on park benches and on sandy beaches, even golf courses. She has always had a roof over her head and food to eat.

My previous marriage involved infidelity, 3 times that I am aware of. Her previous marriage dealt with addictions of the non-drug kind I was the bread winner and her ex was too. I brought mine home to my spouse, he didn't always and instead used it to support his addictions. Your atatement about vowing to never rely on a man again financially (I am paraphrasing) could have been written verbatum by the woman I love.

I know how much financial games can impact a relationship, so I choose not to play them Honestly, I guess I'm a bit naive...because when I said I was "all in" with this relationship, that's what I meant...all...the good, the bad and the ugly.

Yes, I've gone directly to the various utility companies and paid her bills...it hit the fan as soon as she found out. I have also paid the utility companies sums of money in advance of being billed...again, it hit the fan. I have NOT given her a prepaid credit card, but I have purchased a stack of "gift" cards from all of the retailer's she uses for gas, groceries, dry cleaning, clothing, lingerie, alcohol, personal services like hair, skin and nails, etc. She would ONLY accept them as "gifts" when "gifts' are generally given...at holidays and her birthday. I thought of the pride issue but hadn't thought of your idea on how to possibly resolve it. Thank you.

I borrow her car often and fill it up, have it serviced, put new tires on it, have the brakes fixed, etc. She seldom "loans" me her car anymore. So now I'm reduced to going into the gas station to "use the bathroom" and paying for her fill up.

I haven't been able to come to terms with the thought of living together until recently. I'm a big believer in trying to raise my children by "leading by example" and don't consider "shacking up" or "playing house without being married" a very good example. My children are practically raised and they both wonder when we are going to move in together... I would have asked her to marry me a couple of years ago, but there is a financial consideration as it relates to loans and grants for her children's college educations. The total household income is taken into consideration now and not just the income of the biological parent (as it used to be). Fine, I offered to pay the difference myself...she said no. I offered to pay the FULL COST of college tuition for her children....she said no. So, for the first time, we are considering living together under the same roof and not marrying until all are out of college. That, or getting married and not signing a marriage license.....

Many of my friends in here will read this and wonder WTF? Hasn't he gotten over the issues she has with his money? The obvious/honest answer is no.

If money is always going to be such an issue than WTF am I working so hard for? If not for US, then for who?

I don't consider myself any different than any of you. We ALL work hard to provide for our families and those we love...it's really pretty simple.

[JadedQueen]

Seeker...
I think you pretty much answered the questions that I had... not sure if I asked and I'm too lazy to scroll up... how long did her first marriage last? Being in a relationship with someone that has an addiction problem and spends the bill money leaving you stressed out over how to juggle the bills, make sure the kids are clothed and fed takes a toll on a person. Living in that situation especially for a female raising kids (that mothers instinct kicks in and worry overload kicks in). I don't know the depths of the financial situation she dealt with in her past relationship or how long it went on for but I am willing to bet her issue/inability to accept financial assistance from you probably ties into to that a little bit if not a lot. I grew up in a upper middle class family and I was miserable at home and left at the age of 16. I had EVERYTHING a teenager could want and I walked away from it all at a very young age and never looked back... it was easy I only had myself to look after and I was young (and stupid... aren't we all) I married at 17 and lived paycheck to paycheck barely making ends meet often times having nothing but bread and condiments for the next 3 days till payday rolled around again... (ever hear of a wish sandwich? bread, mayo, mustard and ya wish you had some lunch meat to put inside) It was a struggle but honestly those memories kinda make me chuckle.... After being married for 12 years (year 7 things started going downhill and by year 10 I hated my life) For the last two years of my marriage I stayed being completely miserable, wanting desperately to get a divorce. I was unemployed, uneducated and I had a 5 yr. old child. The husband was gone on average 7 or more months per year but not all at once (that was the ONLY thing that kept me going was the times he was away I felt FREEDOM). I wanted to work but without an education a minimum wage job at best and due to the fact hubby was away so much my paycheck and then some would pay daycare. I felt miserable and trapped and it was probably the worst two years of my life. I learned some computer skills and by the time my son started school I started working and saving. That living in misery because you are dependent on someone else and it's not just you that you have to worry about but no parent wants to put their child through being unable to provide for them financially and I know I endured a few years of misery for fear that my son would go hungry, not have a roof over his head, clothes to wear etc.... something like that changes you and changes the way you look at money. After I left my ex.... I would panic if my bank account dropped below $500... I was working and making a good living but my job was "temporary".
I can tell you desperately want to provide for the woman that you are deeply in love with... I think it's sweet but if you want my advice and it may be difficult for you to follow but in the long run it will be healthier for your relationship.... Let it go... at least for now while you are in two seperate households. Just tell her you love her and you don't want money to be a worry for her if she is ever in need just let you know... then let it go... let her have her "pride" "financial independence" or whatever reason it is let her have it for now with the understanding that you will be there for her if she needs. Once you are living together or married I think she will have an easier time since you will be sharing a household and she doesn't feel like you are "supporting" her household. I know this is going to be difficult for you to let it go but if it's causing her to get upset with you when you pay her bills etc... really is it worth the fight? I think if she got into a serious financial hardship (like the power was going to get shut off etc....) she would accept help from you instead of living in the dark. It sounds like a merger of your households is coming soon so until then.... let it go, and continue to love her like you do (which by the way is totally apparent even in written form and I find it refreshing to see)
Oh I had one more question, just out of curiousity really and if you don't want to answer I understand.... You said that you have your own business? What line of work are you in? What line of work is your future wife in? Like I said if you don't want to answer I won't be offended, I was just kinda curious.

[Guest]

I am an entrepreneur of sorts. As I am quite diversified in my "holdings" i've actually owned and operated several businesses over the years. Sold a few and closed a few. While maintaining ownership of others. Have a small portfolio of real estate (strip malls, coin operated car washes and rental storage facilities). The current and newest company is a company that makes metal impervious to mositure and are aggressively pursung several different industries with vast market potential.

She is currenty a nursing student and will pursue nursing opportunties when she graduates.

She stayed in the marriage with the addict for way too long, thinking, hoping and praying that she could change him or that he would get help for his addiction. Her motherly instinct kicked in and her primary focus was protecting while raising her children.

Her feelings about NOT being financially dependent on a man are a direct result of her previous marraige. She depended on him, as a stay at home mom, and he let her and the children down repeatedly. That was years ago...like more than ten. "Letting go" is tough because A) I'm stubborn, and B) I'm a fixer and this is an easy "fix" as far as I'm concerned.

I have never fought with her about money, I have never argued with her about money, I have never held money over her head and made her feel guilty about money. On the rare ocassion when she has allowed herself to spend some on herself or take one or more of the children shopping...I haven't even asked how much she/they spent or on what...because it, spending money, doesn't matter to me.

I'm not a wealthy man and i don't consider myself any different than anyone else in here. I've had some opportunities come my waythat I was able to take advantageof and some have paid off while others have failed miserably! I work hard just like everyone else. I have always been tight with money for as long as i can remember, so that one day in my future I can enjoy the fruits of my various labors and not worry about it. That time has arrived.

We will have an income stream for the rest of our lives while paying for six college educations and at least four weddings.

I appreciate EVERYONE'S advice with this issue. Obviously, I need to work smarter and harder on me and LETTING GO. I see it, I recognize it and now it's time for me to show me that I can do it.

I am blessed beyond words to be in love with the woman that I am.

You all are probably sick of reading that too!

[Texinator]

I'd say you have found yourself a very strong woman, who would rather stick to her principles than take the easy way out.