[liminal]

Ok, but during the initial phases of a relationship what do I tell her? Frankly I can't imagine getting into a relationship without knowing why I am in a relationship.

Since the relationship will be exclusive I wander how I know how she feels for me and how I feel for her. And everything is so nebulous at the beginning right?

My brain sees sex as always part of a serious relationship by default unless otherwise specified.

That is how it seems to me. If a relationship has sex then one of the person imagines that the other person might want to marry them, right?

If not, then what do you even mean by a commited exclusive relationship other than the hope that you will marry that person?

BTW- how long do most people just focusing on relationships (as you recommend) typically go without sex? I mean if people are having sex anyways and they are confident that by simply focusing on relatioinships that they will have sex soon enough then obviously they won't be too concerned about sex per se because it just happens.

Whereas I see

[liminal]

i think you bought the wrong books. The authors may be targeting a different market.

Probably that's why I askedd for books with a less prudish agenda. One of the books was written by a radio talk show host do you figure it's probably got a right wing spin.

[liminal]

Okay I think it's generally acknowledged the relationships evolve to the point of "girlfriend/boyfriend" but what do those terms really mean? Do they mean that you eventually want to marry? If not then what is the relationship for? I have my feeling and hopes about what that means but I am confused.

Why do people talk about past relationships positively? Didn't they all eventually come apart because they didn't work out? Weren't they gunning for the long haul?

[liminal]

"Good sex" is always the goal in a sexual relationship but with rare exception, good sex requires a connection, communication, compatibility and experience.

You have me confused. I wouldn't say that good sex is THE goal of a relationship. Do you really think most people would agree?

[liminal]

Your wish to possibly have a FWB or casual sex type experience are understandable but not likely until you have some experience with navigating in the world of relationships and sex. IMO. Think of it like learning to walk, you have to crawl, then learn to stand before you can take those first tottering steps, you may fall more than a few times until you can walk freely and easily. Then you can start learning to run and jump.

If the relationship is successful why would it matter to get good at relationships so that I can have relationships in the future. If the relationship is successful I might even get married.

If I become so good at relationships why would I care about friend with benefits since forming better relationships would be easy?

[liminal]

with navigating in the world of relationships and sex

What do you mean navigate the world of relationships and sex? Do we take monogamy and a long term relationship as the basic model of a sexual relationship or don't we? "Navigating a world" sounds like there is this whole world of people getting in and out of relationship and that is somehow supposed to be a good thing so you get more sophisticated with relationships?

[liminal]

I mean really honestly what is the difference between dating with marriage in mind and just dating with a relationship in mind? Don't we normally form a sexual relationship because the two of you are in love? And isn't that the same as wanting to marry someone?

[WildChild]

You have me confused. I wouldn't say that good sex is THE goal of a relationship. Do you really think most people would agree?

If you re-read. I said, "Good sex" is always the goal in a sexual relationship", not a relationship.

[liminal]

Sorry but do you mean that once a relationship becomes sexual that good sex becomes THE goal?

[WildChild]

If the relationship is successful why would it matter to get good at relationships so that I can have relationships in the future. If the relationship is successful I might even get married.

If I become so good at relationships why would I care about friend with benefits since forming better relationships would be easy?

You may recall when you posted this

"You misunderstood I don't object to one night stands. I don't understand why if the sex is good you would want to stop that's all.

Casual sex is good in my book to.

But a more emotional "fling" is better.

I did nit say that sex should be the primary motivation for dating. There are many reasons to date. I think it's a good enough reason in itself though. Not purely emotionless sex but good sex is a reason in itself to date."

You have made other references to relationships that are for sex or the purpose of dating being sex. Neither I nor our other posters can manage to respond appropriately until you figure out what the heck you are talking about. You keep switching it around. I asked before and am asking again.
What is it that you want?
Are you looking for a sexual experience?
Or are you looking for a long term relationship that may lead to a life time commitment?
I will not make any further responses until you get clear about this because every response is somehow wrong. You cannot expect to carry on a rational dialog if you keep changing it around.