[liminal]

Your question is confusing.

"Are you looking for a sexual experience?
Or are you looking for a long term relationship that may lead to a life time commitment?

It's not Either/OR. If it is either/or then explain to me why it is.

I don't see how one excludes the other.

I actually believe that sexual gratification is one reason both men and women date and both of my dating books acknowledged that that was a very very common reason people date. Some people here even acknowledged that fact (hopeless dork for instance) so I feel invalidated and put down by both of those books.he problem was that they both looked at that with a disdain that does not make sense to my pro-sex beliefs or indeed with what I feel is going on with society for instance all the talk abou a hook up culture.

I sometime think that your projecting something onto everything I say. Maybe it's my gender. Anyways I was looking for books that considered that their are many reasons to date. Yes you don't go on a date per se looking for marriage but that is one reason people date for some people sex is another. And that isn't so out of this world.

If that isn't the case why are shows like Sex and the City so popular. Uhh, sorry if I am going insane.

I love movies. I love arty farty movies more than mainstream Hollywood fare. I will sometimes wait until a decent arty farty flick comes out in the theaters before I spend my money but those don't come out as often. I still like movies so last night I sat down to watch a mainstream flick but that doesn't mean that I don't prefer arty farty movies it just means I can't withstand the urge to watch all movies.

Someone might say how can you watch this lame mainstream flick and you said the black swan was overrated. Wow your just so confused. How can you say you liked "fast and the furious" better than black swan. You obviously don't know what kind of movies you like.

I would say BS I like arty fart movies and I don't needs to fit to your standard of what that means.

[ItsASecret]

Okay I think it's generally acknowledged the relationships evolve to the point of "girlfriend/boyfriend" but what do those terms really mean? Do they mean that you eventually want to marry?

No it does not mean they eventually want to marry them. Some people stay in relationships but never get married because they just decide not to, it is called common-law. Any relationship a person enters should not be based on the question of whether or not they will marry them. A decision like that takes time, if things do not end up working out between the couple then they will not get married. Plain and simple.

If not then what is the relationship for?

Trial and error. Not everything is going to be perfect the first time around. If one relationship does not work out for whatever reason a person will move on and try to find someone else. Everything will be a learning experience.

Why do people talk about past relationships positively? Didn't they all eventually come apart because they didn't work out? Weren't they gunning for the long haul?

Learning experience. If something did not work out they can look back and think "hey they did this ______ I will watch out for that next time" or "it was going good but I just did not feel any sparks as time progressed so next time I will learn to not rush into things". No relationship the second it starts should have the thoughts "I'm going to marry this person because I am now in a relationship with them". If it works out then great it worked out, if things take a turn for the worse 3 years into a relationship then so be it. Again all learning.

You have me confused. I wouldn't say that good sex is THE goal of a relationship. Do you really think most people would agree?

It is not the goal it is a goal. Good sex helps a relationship out, the connection, the closeness. If a couple is happy with their sex lives then it can project into an overall better relationship. Everyone wants a good relationship and a good sexual relationship with your loving partner keeps a strong bond between the two.

If the relationship is successful why would it matter to get good at relationships so that I can have relationships in the future. If the relationship is successful I might even get married.

The point WC first made was no FWB can happen if there is not some type of foundation, a base relationship. Without meeting someone, without the experience of meeting someone it simply is not likely to happen. No one is just going to say "hey lets FWB". Not everyone is going to be perfect at a relationship their first go at it. If there is experience with various relationships then there is a foundation to base future ones off of. If the first relationship actually works out then great, if it takes a few tries then so be it. But the general understanding is that if you are experienced with various relationships it is easier to possibly make future ones work now that you have the knowledge from the past.

What do you mean navigate the world of relationships and sex?

Navigate means trial and error. If one relationship does not work then okay find out how to make the next one even better. Same with sex. It is always a learning process.

"Navigating a world" sounds like there is this whole world of people getting in and out of relationship and that is somehow supposed to be a good thing so you get more sophisticated with relationships?

It is exactly like that. People are trying out relationships and hoping for the best and if they do not work out then they hope it works out better with the next one. They may learn that they are not interested in workaholic people like they thought they were, they may decide that a certain lifestyle a person has is not as fun as a person thought they would be and so on. Always always always learning. The more you learn the more you can be aware of what is out there, the less chance there is of being overwhelmed if something does not work out.

I mean really honestly what is the difference between dating with marriage in mind and just dating with a relationship in mind?

Dating with marriage in mind is jumping the gun. Maybe someone finds their date extremely attractive and thinks "dang I would marry you" and 3 months later it turns out that their personality is totally not what they like so they end the relationship. You never know who you will truly like, people change with time.


I am agreeing with WC on this though, you seem very confused as to what you want. A possible loving relationship will not just fall into your lap it will come through dating. I am sure you know that. Sex will not fall into your lap unless you go the one night stand or prostitute route. You said you did not want that. Sex does not come automatic with a single date, or with 2 dates or with 3 dates or a sex X number. It comes when the woman is comfortable enough to let it come. The basis to any potential relationship FWB, actual best friends, or a potential future wife will all come from interacting with another person.

[ItsASecret]

It's not Either/OR. If it is either/or then explain to me why it is.

What she is asking is what do you want right now, because you have such a focus on sex but you don't want to go the one night stand route, but then you turn it around by saying you don't want sex unless it is in a loving relationship but then you turn it around again by saying that you want a FWB for sex. It is just hard to follow when you have so many if's and's or but's.

[liminal]

You don't understand. I don't expect anything to happen soon. It's already been at least 15 years since puberty.

(I've tried and don't tell me that my "failure" is due to me not having confidence. It's way over your head if you dont have Aspergers to grasp that(

And itsasecret you keep bring up the one night stand route. Look I look at pornography, I would be fooling myself if I said that didn't appeal to me but that kind of lifestyle is a million miles away from my expectations of my abilities and if I had that ability then I would probably be very attractive to women and I'd probably be in love.

Wow, you can't just assume that guys can get laid so easily.


Itsasecret you need to look at thing from my perspective and not the perspective of some "stud" which I am not.

If I could wave a magic wand you mean? I would pick the relationship right away with no thought to it. Because that's always been my dream since as long as I can remember actually. (or close to nearly anyhow)

I really wish I didn't have to want to have sexual gratification. I wish I was an Evangelical Christian or something so that I can just relate to women in a way that is simple and pure.

What she is asking is what do you want right now, because you have such a focus on sex but you don't want to go the one night stand route, but then you turn it around by saying you don't want sex unless it is in a loving relationship but then you turn it around again by saying that you want a FWB for sex. It is just hard to follow when you have so many if's and's or but's.

I am trying to express myself as best as I can. I am sorry if I am confused.


You are confusing me because you ate agreeing with me but your also disagreeing with me your tone.

You say that friends with benefits and other forms of relationships involve and require a relationship where you focus on the person, I figures that out but now I am looking for an advice on dating book that doesn't denigrate those relationships.

They seem like very good things to me an dI know that they ate more than just about sexual gratification per se. It's that way in life you want a peson to play X-Box with you but it's not just about the X-Box game it about playing that X-Box game with some one else, so in other words a relationship.

Even a one night stand is about a relationship if you think about it. You play darts at a bar with somebody does that mean it was just about the darts?

But the thing is that you don't seem to disagree with me except that you have a hard tune understanding what I say.

So it's not so ridiculous asking for a dating book that opens your options for sex and love rather than closing them. Is it? Is it really?

Why do I have to feel like my reality doesn't match the world outside of me?

[Hopeless Dork]

Why do I have to feel like my reality doesn't match the world outside of me?

Everyone has different versions of what they want from the world... and what they actually see. Everyone. Most people have at one point or many points felt like they were so very different from everyone else, misunderstood... it is the human experience to feel that way. Thats generally why people celebrate finding someone that 'gets' them... because its something that doesn't exactly come so easily.

Love and sex and everything in between is something that no book will prepare you for, no movie, no friends experiences etc... its a first hand thing each and every time. Even if you had 10 girlfriends ... the 11th may confuse the heck out of you... and it could be like you never had a gf before because she is so hard to figure out... but thats all people -- everyones so different, everyone will react differently to different situations.

I think you can read books for others percpectives... you can gain some insights you may have otherwise not have seen... but you have to understand that every single time you meet someone new, no matter if your hope with them is friendship, love, a date, sex... or any combo of any of it... it will be its own unique rollercoaster ride.

[liminal]

Sorry for all the misspellings. I wish I wasn't going in circles like this. I keep feeling like I've finally explained myself to the point where you should go "Aha" I see now what you mean. Yeah your not far from the truth at all or...

I can see what you mean but...

Part of the problem is the lack of rapport. People have responded to me in agreement with me but stated it in a way that implies you don't understand that I agree with you. That really makes it hard to respond in a way that makes it seem like I am not contradicting myself. I might agree with you in substance but disagree with why your saying that.

It would be easier if rapport was attained by finding a common ground by emphasizing what we agree on rather than disagree. That gives you a base that allows further discussion.

[Hopeless Dork]

When you see a woman, meet a woman you are attracted to... do you smile? Do you talk to her? What is your default reaction to coming in contact with a woman that interests you?

I think you may have this idea that its all hopeless, and its not. You don't have to be some stud and in fact there are many women (myself included) that find those type of guys unnattractive. Those rico-suave types bleah... I have no interest in a guy that takes longer to get ready than me... that has arrogance and pick up lines and all that junk.

But even if you are quiet and reserved, you have to find some way to give off a vibe that you find a woman interesting/attractive or she may mistake your shyness for disinterest.

[liminal]

I am sure that their are some books. It makes me feel so stupid when I read how it's wrong to look
for those kind of relationships.

I guess I just don't understand sexuality enough to have confidence in my intuition and it makes me feel so much like I am on another planet.

And that's hard to take when there are so many women who I feel I intuitively understand. I mean it's that intuition that makes me long to be with them in the first place even if only as only a sex buddy.

Its like my intuitions have no validity and that makes me feel so unable to have confidence in how I see things.

Am I making sense? Please try to listen. Listen please. (I'm not saying your not I'm just saying)

I can't what you are saying. Are you agreeing with me, your saying don't read a book but that's focusing on a negative what is the positive thing you are trying to say?

[liminal]

When you see a woman, meet a woman you are attracted to... do you smile? Do you talk to her? What is your default reaction to coming in contact with a woman that interests you?

I think you may have this idea that its all hopeless, and its not. You don't have to be some stud and in fact there are many women (myself included) that find those type of guys unnattractive. Those rico-suave types bleah... I have no interest in a guy that takes longer to get ready than me... that has arrogance and pick up lines and all that junk.

But even if you are quiet and reserved, you have to find some way to give off a vibe that you find a woman interesting/attractive or she may mistake your shyness for disinterest.

Yesterday I asked a girl who works at a chain restaurant I frequent if she was in college and what she would be studying if she was. She said a chef and I didn't respond very quickly and I took my food after that. Another gal who I met sitting down at that same place struck a brief conversation with a gal and then continued that conversation when I saw her again at my apartment complex. I had some pauses in my conversation, not shyness actual cognitive barriers to conversation- just believe me because then I feel like my perspective is validated.

I will focus on writing down the things I want to say or ask before I say them.

I experience an inhibition related to the feeling that it's bot okay to go out there in hopes of
getting your needs met if those needs are carnal. That makes me to not want to talk to women because I feel that I am not valid in my intentions even if another part of me knows that sex is something women want to.

When it takes so much effort that insecurity can make something already very difficult to even more difficult.

Which is why I am looking for psychological reassurance so badly. I am looking very hard and when I feel that I will feel all that more energized to do it. I would spend an entire week trying to come up with with something to say for a 15 minute conversation for instance. But an entire week trying to say say a 15 minute conversation with hope that it becomes more (even sex) when I am not not told what I am doing is right just is not easy ("go get em tiger" Don't laugh at me or say that I am exaggerating or act like I am desperate just listen to me and try to gain some rapport with me.

I'd rather not want sex at all than have it be something that stands in the way of my hopes but if there was some way to reconcile my sexuality with the world by seeking affirmation rapport and validation then I need that. If else I need to figure this out some other way.

[Hopeless Dork]

I'm not saying don't read books... I think if they give you insight its a good thing. I am saying that love/sex/relationships/dating/friendships... anything involving person to person interaction is one of the most unpredictable things in this world... and that unlike science or math... it doesn't follow patterns and statisics. Humans are wildcards... while one women may be completly happy with the way you approach her, another will be totally turned off. And there is no figuring out who will react which way short of going for it.