[Stephanie James]

Good morning, everyone. Looks like it's going to be a scorcher here today in LA.

First, for rcoreyus, "ma ei ole Estonian." Look it up

I'm not saying there's no exploitation in the porn business, I'm only shared my experience. I've heard some horror stories but I figure those people were messed up anyway and would have had problems do matter what they were doing. And I know from my experience as a waitress that there's plenty of exploitation going on outside the porn world.

I don't consider porn to be the same as prostitution because nobody's paying me to give them sexual pleasure. The male actors are getting paid to perform just like I am. The real goal is to give sexual pleasure to the viewer at home, but since their not physically touching me it's not prostitution in my book.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not condemning prostitution. I believe it should be legal to protect women in that business and to get rid of just one more instance of hypocrisy in our society. Who's paying all all those prostitutes? Politicians and other "respectable" people. What a joke.

[Stillness]

But it doesn't logically follow from there that prostitution (which porn is a variant of) isn't abusive.

I think it's necessarily is abusive. I think there are certain careers or life choices that can't be healthy - like drug dealer, drug addict or prostitute. I've had and currently have people in my family and others that I love that are in those lines of work or are addicted. I think it's harmful for them and for everyone, though.

I think "prostitute" just sounds bad because of our how our culture views them. It's probably less PC, for that reason. "Sex worker" or "porn star" sounds better. But by definition there's no difference between a pornographic film actor and a prostitute.

[rcoreyus]

I think attitudes towards sex workers are interesting. Prostitutes, porn actors, solo porn exhibitionists, strippers / exotic dancers etc.

I think there are differences: Prostitutes are having sex for the direct pleasure of another person, and don't know that person's background wrt diseases etc. Porn actors are having sex to entertain / arouse other people - if they are successful, very large numbers of people. While a prostitute can probably have a secret life, a porn star has a reasonably chance of being found out.

Solo exhibitionists are not interacting with other people and can work from the safety of their homes, but are seen by others. Strippers are not (in theory) interacting with other people but are being seen by many.

I don't object to the people doing any of these, but each has its dangers.

[Stillness]

Prostitutes are having sex for the direct pleasure of another person, and don't know that person's background wrt diseases etc.

Prostitutes engage in sexual activity for payment. That's it. It doesn't matter what they know or don't know about the people they're having sex with or who's paying them. A third party could be paying a prostitute to watch her have sex with someone she knows very well, for example. Or a gigolo could have one wealthy benefactor that has presented him with a clean bill of health.

You're listing a specific case of prostitution. If someone wants to be referred to as a stripper or an actress, then that's PC. I respect people's right to label themselves. It is what it is, though. I think we agreed in the PC thread that the right to self-labeling shouldn't obscure reality.

[rcoreyus]

Are actresses in main stream films who pretend to have sex on screen prostitutes? How about the (rare) cases where they actually do have sex on screen?
I don't think the labels matter. Sex Workers is convenient because it is a generic term for a wide range of related, but different activities.

[Sonny]

Well I agree with you on that point, but I don't see how prostitution is a variant of porn, unless you mean the women involved are just in it for the money ?

Both involve sex for money....the only difference being one is lawful and the other is not.

Curiously if any one gets money from someone else to have sex with that someone else then that's unlawful prostitution in most places.

However if any one (adult) gets money from another or other adult(s) to have sex with some other adult(s)...

Then it's not unlawful in most places but if filmed it's porn.

Why one is unlawful and the other not is pretty weird since both are essentially the same or substantially similar.

What difference or variance there is in my opinion is a distinction without a difference for public policy purposes.

That's why I say porn is just a variant of prostitution.

In fact some porn stars also do acts of prostitution in places like Nevada.

Which is why I think both acts should be legally decriminalized but socially discouraged...

Because neither career choice seems to end well for the participants.

[Sonny]

I'm not saying there's no exploitation in the porn business, I'm only shared my experience.

Which means you're lucky or like the man falling off a 10 story building thinking all is fine as he passes the 5th floor.

I've heard some horror stories but I figure those people were messed up anyway and would have had problems do matter what they were doing.

You're victim blaming!

From what I can gather the industry attracts "messed up" people, like coal mining, but also messes them up, like coal mining.

And I know from my experience as a waitress that there's plenty of exploitation going on outside the porn world.

Yes, but that can't be a defense of the porn industry just because there's also exploitation going on in other places.

I don't consider porn to be the same as prostitution because nobody's paying me to give them sexual pleasure.

That is the basis for porn's legality but it never really made any sense to me as a matter of public policy.

I mean what's the evil then that prostitution is stopping given that porn stars are legal as is sex for free or for a date?

The male actors are getting paid to perform just like I am.

The only difference is you aren't paying each other to have sex....because that'd be prostitution.

The real goal is to give sexual pleasure to the viewer at home, but since their not physically touching me it's not prostitution in my book.

And it's not prostitution...but since you are having sex for money it is a legally permissible variant of prostitution.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not condemning prostitution. I believe it should be legal to protect women in that business and to get rid of just one more instance of hypocrisy in our society. Who's paying all all those prostitutes? Politicians and other "respectable" people. What a joke.

I agree!

[Stillness]

Are actresses in main stream films who pretend to have sex on screen prostitutes? How about the (rare) cases where they actually do have sex on screen?

Are they engaged in sexual activity for payment?

[Bulldog]

Umm, just pointing out something that seems to be missed. If you upload here, there, or anywhere--tape it and never show it to anyone else, or share it with the world--it's still porn. Getting paid for it does not change what it is. That naked pic you took of your GF/BF--porn.

I'm guessing cavemen drew a few vaginas on the cave walls. LOL. Still porn. And why not celebrate the human form?

No flames intended but I just don't see where getting paid for performing, stripping, posing for pics, etc should be germaine. It's granted that an "employer" who provides a bad, abusive, or denigrating workplace environment should be managed accordingly. But to presume that is the case because the business is porn seems to be rife with prejudice and capricious judgments based upon personal bias--not facts.

I'd grant that I don't think I could do porn for money and not have it take a toll on my ability to connect intimately with a life partner. But that's me. And all the non-controversial jobs I've done take a toll in some way. That's life, every job.

It seems unfair to judge porn, to me, unless it involves justifiably illegal acts. Just .02 cents.

[Stillness]

Getting paid for it does not change what it is.

It makes it prostitution.

I'd grant that I don't think I could do porn for money and not have it take a toll on my ability to connect intimately with a life partner.

If that's true, then why sugar-coat it and try to make it no different than non-commercial sex?

I think this discussion is cool and it's awesome that Stephanie has joined us to give us a firsthand, open insight into something that affects us all. I think we need to be real with ourselves though.