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Another First Date!

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  • Another First Date!

    First date since Springtime. This man was introduced to me through mutual friends. We chatted a week prior to meeting. That went very well, and I thought this may have some genuine potential.
    So we met at a trendy bar for a drink to decide if we would like to proceed to dinner. The conversation over the drink was great. He is smart, witty & I was attracted to him. I thoroughly enjoyed that time, probably more than any other first meeting.

    We left the bar & walked for a bit, decided which restaurant to choose for dinner. This is where it starts to get a bit "heavy". It was cool weather, but I was dressed appropriately, and he asked if he could stop in one of the shops to buy me a coat. I thought that was sweet, but a little much...but ok. I assured him I'd brought an extra jacket if I needed one, and left it in the car.

    We choose a restaurant and go in, and he asks the hostess for the most romantic table in the place, and we're willing to wait if it's taken...ok...again, I just think he's trying to be sweet. Then he tells the server & the hostess, that he'll invite them to our wedding. Again, I thought he was trying to be funny, I laughed it off, but thought it was maybe going a little too far. The staff there thought he was serious however...and I had to tell them to stop with the special treatment, that he was joking & having fun with them. And I told him he was making them work harder than necessary, probably better to stop the facade.
    So, as we sit there he starts talking very differently. It was as if, the act of leaving the bar & escorting him to dinner was solidifying the relationship. "We" and "our" suddenly entered his vocabulary.

    He asked, I told him the brief version of my divorce. He took my hands & held them & sternly looked at me & said he was so sorry I'd endured that. It seemed a bit forced, way too serious to the point of being awkward...I took my hands back (gently), and said that it's been 3 years, I don't seek comfort from everyone I meet & I'm ready to move on with my life now.

    Then, a bit after that, he put his head on his hands & began staring at me across the table...I tried to ignore it at first, knowing there was probably some hyper-romantic pronouncement ensuing, but after a minute or so, I asked why he was looking at me so intently. He said, "When we fall in love, I want to remember this moment forever." By then, I'd had enough of it. I said that he needs to put his horse back in front of the cart & slow that thing down! I said that he's way too serious & it's making me very uncomfortable.
    He wasn't embarrassed or phased by that...just said, ok, yeah, maybe that's too heavy for now.
    I thought, does he really not like me? And he's trying to scare me off?? What is happening here? Is it just supposed to be funny?

    I changed the subject. We continued on & he did settle down with that sort of talk.

    As we were leaving, he asked me if I'd like to go to Vegas with him on Thursday. No, I said that we hardly know each other & although I did like him, all the talk of these serious things is a bit off-putting & I'm not a girl who goes flying off with men I just met, under any circumstance. Was this just a nice gesture, to show his continued interest?

    So, we parted & I was left with mixed feelings. Was he nervous & trying too hard? Was that the real person making an appearance? I really enjoyed his company otherwise, and I will give him another chance...but wow?!
    He had a bit of a drive home, so I texted him to make sure he was home safely-he said he'd like to see me again. I said that I would too. He then said, how about now? And so it goes...

    I sought the feedback of my friends, who also thought this was inappropriate, but that if this behavior was different from the first impressions, it could be worth a chance, to see if he just got a little rattled for a bit, and that was his poor way of handling it. One woman said she'd have excused herself at dinner & left, that's how poor she thought it was. I'm inclined to give him a chance...He HAS calmed down with all that talk, but he left for Vegas a couple days after our meeting...so he's been busy

    It just seems to be the trend with men I've gone out with & I have to wonder if it's me. Every man I've met has either just wanted sex & nothing more, or they seem to be way more interested in something more with me, way too soon & far ahead of my "feelings" for them. My friends have given me theories...I would like some other feedback tho.

    Some background. Neither of us had much alcohol, so I didn't think that was the culprit. He's been divorced 12 yrs, and made it known our first talk that he's interested in long-term, and wants to be married again some day. His kids are grown, and admits he gets empty-nest issues & struggles with depression.

    Thoughts from the men & women here?

  • What are you doing to these men, kitty? You must have a powerful presence.
    "Those sowing seed with tears
    Will reap with a joyful shout." - Psalm 126


    • Wow. My first impression as I read the events that transpired over the first date was "this guy has watched a few too many chick flick lifetime movies."

      Assuming you hadn't dressed appropriately for the weather and offering to buy you a coat was sweet but a bit over the top. Most guys would have offered their jacket instead.

      Asking for the most romantic table and asserting a willingness to wait until it was available to me, again, seems sweet but a bit much. A week's worth of phone conversations and a few drinks hardly warrants asking for a table as though a serious proposal would ensue.

      Staring and saying, "When we fall in love I want to remember this moment forever" would have creeped me out. IMO, he's making forward assumptions about a definite future, which projects a sense of desperation and possessiveness. It's one thing to be attracted to a person and suggest future dates, but "wedding" talk on a first date would send up red flag for me. I'm sure some people may find it romantic and swoon over the idea of a man being that into them, and rightly so if it wasn't a few hours upon first meeting.

      I'm glad you declined the Vegas trip. You know about my bs meter is set on high alert, perhaps higher than necessary. I don't think the guy would have clubbed you over the head and dragged you to a wedding chapel, but after hearing how forward he was I wouldn't put it past him to mention a quick ceremony, and have meant it.

      Long term relations don't start on a first date. Determining the possibility of a LTR is something that builds over some time. He may be a great guy, but my initial reaction by nature would be creepy, stalkery, possessive and off-putting.

      Maybe he was nervous and just trying too hard. If the same behaviors and conversations come in on a second date, I'd be leery. Good luck and let us know how it goes.


      • I could see one or two gaffes due to first-date jitters, but the litany you relate is more than mildly concerning. There are several that, on their own, seem outré - eg., buying a coat, asking for the most romantic table, the dramatic clasping of your hands, the invitation to Vegas (which also suggests he sees you as the type who would fly off with some guy she just met). Cumulatively, the number of inappropriate actions is a bit difficult to ascribe to nervousness. More like a revelation of character.

        I probably lean toward the view of your friend who would have absconded during dinner. You of course have a better perspective on the matter than those of us sitting at our keyboards, and perhaps a second chance would be in order. Your conversation with him at the bar contains a glimmer of hope, I suppose. He managed that without any missteps.

        As Euphoric has said, if the same behaviors manifest on a second date, there would be no third date. The only downside I see is that he may see your agreement to a second date as tacit approval of all that transpired on the first. If so, I think you'll know it within the first 10 minutes of date #2. Choose the venue of that date with some care.

        Good luck!
        I do not grow old; if I stop growing, I am old.


        • Yeah, I agree with Baboy and your friend. There's no way there'd be a date 2. I know that stinks when life is short and you wouldn't mind spending the rest of it with someone. Then you find someone attractive and charming. But if they're going to be boiling your bunnies, isn't it better to wait for the next one or just be single?
          "Those sowing seed with tears
          Will reap with a joyful shout." - Psalm 126


          • I'm trying not to focus on the negative, (as you all know I can have a tendency to do) and give him the benefit of the doubt. No harm in a second meeting, I suppose. If the Jekyll & Hyde episode recurs, I'm out!

            Yes, Baboy, I agree & that came to mind-that he thought I was the "type" to take him up on that offer...bothered me at the time, and I still wonder why it seems I'm receptive to that sort of thing-especially after I'd asked him to slow down. I think it's less what I'm putting out there, and more what these men want to see/hear. But I'm not sure - I'd like more feedback on that as well, since this isn't the first time this sort of thing has happened.

            I do tend to agree with you all tho, my gut tells me this wasn't good...and the second date will tell the tale.

            Still, I think my posts here are demonstrative that I'm very fine w/waiting for the next one and/or being single! A date every 6 months - I'm not exactly blazing a trail here!

            Any more thoughts?


            • Welcome back Baboy. Your thought provoking comments were missed.

              I have a slightly different perspective. I think he was working too hard to impress you. Men of our age feel like they are auditioning for a second date. The coat and Vegas trip were to indicate that he was financially successful. In trying to snare a woman who wants a long term relationship, he seems to have overcompensated for weaknesses in his personality and/or what he has read that women want (a man who is financially well off, romantic and thinking about the future). I don't think it was nervousness, just misguided and out of his comfort zone.

              If he was smart, witty and attractive, go on a second date as you plan. You might want to have a direct conversation on how you need the relationship to proceed, if there is to be one. If the behaviors persist, then I'd be with the rest.

              As for the men you attract, you are no doubt attractive and certainly have a depth of character. That makes you desire able to those that want a toss in the sack and a long term relationship. I agree with Stillness, you must have quite a presence.
              "The only consistent feature of all of your dissatisfying relationships is you." Despair.com "Dysfunction"


              • Originally posted by effy2014 View Post
                you must have quite a presence.
                Or these men really like black labs.
                "Those sowing seed with tears
                Will reap with a joyful shout." - Psalm 126


                • I appreciate your feedback effy, as always. This guy is a manager, over a large number of people in a sector of health care that would require him to be able to manage himself and his emotions in the presence of more powerful people...another reason I'm dumbfounded at his temporary disposition with me. I have really no idea of his financial success, but I suspect he earns a decent living. I didn't ask his educational background or experience, just the current job responsibilities. One of my friends brought up this point too, saying it was a "manly" demonstration of his ability to support me, a show of his feathers, so to speak.

                  Regarding that direct conversation you suggest, I did actually tell him these things in the week leading up to our meeting. I told him that I want a friendship/relationship to develop slowly, with no pressures or hasty movements, steady progress...etc. He agreed, claiming that that is his m.o. That was why I thought perhaps, he was trying to get rid of me with the fast forward fumbling over himself...knowing I am turned off by such needy behavior. His hug goodnight indicated that he wasn't trying to get rid of me tho...it was firm & reluctant to let go, and respectable - no funny business.

                  I knew he was a bundle of nerves at the bar tho...as he sat beside me & began bobbing his leg & rubbing his hands on his thighs-still in his dress pants, ruining his creases. I asked if he was nervous, he said just a little. He said the pic he'd seen hadn't represented me well. I touched his arm & tried to reassure him that we're just two people talking. He seemed to relax after that, and the hand-sweating subsided. I get nervousness displayed this way - I don't get the over-romanticism that followed.

                  I think I've mentioned before, that I make conscious efforts to not dress too sexy, leaving everything to the imagination, even to the point of looking matronly maybe, and certainly not seductive in any way. I laugh & am friendly, but I'm not overtly flirty or verbally suggestive, so as to send wrong messages. Usually men claim they can't tell if I'm interested at all!
                  I have been told I have "that thing" or a presence, something about me that can be intimidating, but I've also been told I'm very easy to be around, and make people comfortable quickly, so I'm not sure which prevails in this situation.

                  More comments please? I've given a little more info there...any more thoughts?


                  • Yes, Still...they MUST love Labs! It's a prereq!


                    • The new information does give me pause. On one hand, I don't equate a man's status in a business with his ability to relate to a woman in a social situation. The potential of being rejected by a woman is a far greater blow to a man's ego than being bested in a business deal. I can also see how you can be intimidating . . . It has nothing to do with how sexy you look or dress. Smart, confident, direct women who can communicate can be intimidating. You may be easy going, but perhaps your desire to not be suggestive or flirty kept him guessing whether you approved of him.

                      On the other hand, he should be able to follow simple instructions. You were direct in the path you wanted to follow. He ignored it in an odd sort of way. He was attempting to financial success, empathy (comment about your divorce) and romance. By your description, all seemed a bit overplayed and forced. If not nervousness, it doesn't seem like he was being himself but acting some sort of part.
                      "The only consistent feature of all of your dissatisfying relationships is you." Despair.com "Dysfunction"


                      • From what I red in your post Kitty, it just seem this guy was trying way to hard to try and impress you with his corky sense of humor. It reads that he was not being him self as he has been divorce for 12 years and is probably way out of practice of how to really act on a date with a lady. But i feel you turning down his offer to go on a jet set trip to Vegas was very smart on your part. To me that was way out of line asking a women you really don't know to accompany you on a trip like that. I don't see it being anything you are doing wrong Kitty, you are just looking for that great and right guy. I see it as looking to buy a house you have to look at many sometimes before you find that diamond in the rough that you will like and finally fall in love with. When you at least a expected you will find that special guy to have and love in your life again Kitty so good luck and god bless.
                        When out driving always turn left. Then, should you become lost, you can find your way home by reversing the procedure and always turning right.


                        • Effy, I mostly agree with your business/social comment, but I was more making a point that generally speaking, I think if we can handle nerves/pressure rather gracefully, we can handle it...work or social. I am this way, whether that's a natural inclination I always had, or from my career training, I'm not sure, but it holds true at work, and in my personal life.
                          So, maybe you're right...he differs from me in that way. I just thought that could be some indicator, some idea of his general personality in stressful situations.

                          I appreciate all the feedback & have had a day off work & thought a bit about all this-myself mainly. I think effy, you're right again, and maybe it was you who suggested months ago, that my efforts to be non-suggestive & conservative in dress & conversation, are indeed sending a mixed signal at best, and confusing to most men, and women too probably. I'll work on that.

                          MG, he's actually had relationships in this 12 yr period, a couple longer term, and he dates quite a bit more than I do.

                          So...any more thoughts? Ladies??


                          • Sorry I'm late to this discussion. You listed all the weird/bad stuff. But this guys obviously did some good stuff too since you are considering a second date. So lets look at both sides. He sounds desperate, lonely and trying really hard. That's not necessarily all bad. Haven't you ever felt lonely and desperate? We are all human and we often do things that aren't the smartest moves, especially when dating is concerned. The thing is, if we were watching a chick flick, we would think all these moves were really romantic. Think about it, if a guy you rejected showed up at your house outside playing a boombox, that would be super creepy, but that is a classic movie moment from a classic romantic movie.

                            I would talk to him, make it clear you aren't the type who is going to be swept away by those larger than life romantic gestures. If anything, they creep you out. If he is cool with that, then set up a second date.

                            BTW, my husband asked me to take a trip with him on our first date. Of course, we had known each other a month, been out together along with other people, and when he ask, he did it more as a challenge and was shocked I agreed. If the hormones are flying, the alcohol is right and both are feeling the attraction, stupid and creepy things actually sound romantic.
                            Freedom is just another word for nothing left to lose - Kris Kristofferson and Fred Foster (sung by Janis Joplin)


                            • You are right sp, and I didn't think the things were necessarily red flag territory, because I did get a stronger sense that nerves were overtaking him. There were more positive attributes to cancel out that 15-20 minute frame of madness! The crazy talk calmed, he's "normal" again in all our chats since, and I'll be seeing him again in the next few days or so for our second meeting. I agree that in certain scenarios this would have been endearing, and many women would be charmed by all the attention, it's just not me, and I've made that pretty clear to him, I think.

                              I am very "guarded". I think he got the picture, and I think he's holding back. He did say he can't wait to see me again last night, and I could sense there was a big stream of "dumb" just wanting to come pouring out after that, lol, but he dammed it up & went on with our discussion. So, I think my forgiveness without making him feel foolish has been a good approach. I definitely DO feel like he's a good guy, genuinely, and should this progress, I'll be very happy to have an expressive, affectionate man on my hands! Just not on a first date. If my instincts are correct, he's shown self-restraint & discipline & actual respect & caring for my feelings on the matter by not getting all gooey every time we chat, since that first night when he got all silly. What I haven't decided yet is how I feel about the fact that he seems to already be having these feelings...and then I remind myself to stop analyzing the life out of it & just see what the next turn holds.

                              Thanks for commenting! I appreciate the thoughts!



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