[Popcorn&Candy]

It would be wonderful to be both beautiful AND intelligent.

Why should it be one or the other?

[Alison H.]

It would be wonderful to be both beautiful AND intelligent.

Why should it be one or the other?

THIS. So much this. For some reason, and I'm not sure if it's society at large or some innate type of thinking that's been bred into the human brain across generations, but it feels like you can be one or the other, but never both.

[Popcorn&Candy]

This is bumping up an old thread, but I do believe if you're pretty, you're more likely to be respected than if you're "ugly" [for lack of a better word]. Attractive women are often assumed to be more intelligent than their plainer counterparts.

It does seem that women are admired for their beauty: if a woman doesn't fit that requirement, others see her as less than she is.

I realize this sounds terribly negative, but women are valued by society for their beauty. Of course intelligence matters too, but looks have a major impact on how a woman is judged.

[Alison H.]

I realize this sounds terribly negative, but women are valued by society for their beauty. Of course intelligence matters too, but looks have a major impact on how a woman is judged.

Oh, they absolutely do. While standards of beauty have changed across centuries, I think there has always been a preference for beauty and more value given to women who are deemed beautiful by the standards of that era.

It almost feels like it’s genetically ingrained at this point. It sounds negative because it is — at least for women who aren’t considered to be beautiful in the traditional sense.

Then again, I think it gives those same women more reason to bring the focus to their other qualities, whether it's their intelligence, artistry, or some other skill set.

[Popcorn&Candy]

Agreed, Alison H.

[Wednesday L.F.]

Can I just say I’m shocked that there are people who don’t think attractiveness provides privilege? I’m reminded of an interview with Gwennyth Paltrow trying out her fat suit (don’t get me started on fat suits) in public. She was “shocked” at how differently she was treated. Like, it never occurred to her that looking like Gwennyth Paltrow provided her with some benefits.

[atskitty2]

Wednesday L.F. I think there are lots of people that simply don't think of these things at all, one way or another. Once they're introduced to the topic, they may begin to recognize it, though.

[Emily D.]

Wednesday L.F. I agree, but I also think that some people may not feel as if they'd "qualify" as attractive/pretty (or at least, not enough to receive privilege from it)/may feel as if they're being vain if they acknowledge it since being attractive is subjective, but given that there's definitely a societal standard for what is and isn't attractive, anyone who meets that is going to benefit.

[Alison H.]

Can I just say I’m shocked that there are people who don’t think attractiveness provides privilege? I’m reminded of an interview with Gwennyth Paltrow trying out her fat suit (don’t get me started on fat suits) in public. She was “shocked” at how differently she was treated. Like, it never occurred to her that looking like Gwennyth Paltrow provided her with some benefits.

I remember when that happened. It annoyed me to say the least, her reaction to “how the other half” must live — as though it didn’t exist until she experienced it herself. My eyes couldn’t roll back into my head far enough.

At the same time, our own perceptions about how we look are often vastly skewed compared to others’ perceptions of us (and in her case, being on magazine covers and in movies, she couldn’t NOT know she’s attractive, whether or not she considers herself to be so).

For “normal” folks, however, I imagine it can be hard to see pretty privilege when it’s happening to you if you don’t already perceive yourself to be attractive. Any little “perks” or benefits you get, you might not necessarily consider that you got them because someone finds you attractive. Whereas someone who knows they’re pretty might use that whenever possible to take advantage of what it provides them.

And unfortunately, society’s standards for beauty are always evolving — I don’t envy anyone who puts a lot of work into fitting into that mold. The benefits, to me, are grossly outweighed by the amount of effort involved.

[TJ T.]

I was talking about "handsome privilege" yesterday at work. Of all the things that genetics gave me, I value my intelligence above all. That being said, my face is a close second.

There have been times in my life where carelessness or depression has resulted in a drastic weight gain, and I'll never forget my uncle's words after my very first performance as a professional musician. He said, "Man, looking at the pictures I took, I think it may be time to hit the gym. You are way too handsome to be overweight." Harsh, but... true? It elicited a feeling of obligation; a duty to the world to prevent a gift from being squandered. I understand the pressure of the halo effect, and the feeling of disappointment from others when you don't measure up to their presuppositions.

I work with the most attractive and gifted liars in the world. Women who are capable of stealing a man's heart, ensnaring his mind, and emptying his wallet; yet, they go where I tell them to go, and they say what I tell them to say. Yes, because I possess an unearthly savvy, yes, because they are safe with me, but also yes, because they want me. These women and I are typically overseen by men who don't enter the industry for the same reasons, or share the same worldview, as myself. I am a lightning rod for the fragile male ego, and they regularly seek to make an example of me, even with microaggressions. I have tried to make myself small and docile to placate their insecurities, but to no avail. I elected not to wear three-piece suits anymore, because I look amazing, and a simple two-piece is more unassuming. No matter how harmless I try to appear in my interactions with them, they see me in my element with others; holding court with a party of 20, with an entire booth erupting in laughter at my joke, or surrounded by fawning women (women these supervisors wish were fawning over them) while I bat away their advances.

I know handsome privilege exists, because I know when it doesn't. Once Covid struck, and we were all forced to wear masks, the world became more than a little indifferent to me. It was strange, but I had experienced it before while out of shape, to be denied access to a coffee shop right at closing time, or not be given the benefit of the doubt when attempting to return a defective purchase. A sly smirk or an innocent, bewildered look have pretty much gotten me anything I wanted, but I have been rendered inert. Charisma is an expenditure, and without handsome privilege, it's usually not worth the effort. I know, believe me I know, that this face was an astronomical luck of the draw, and I do not take that for granted. It is more humbling than anything these days, but as selfish as it sounds, it's one of the main reasons I can't wait for Covid to be over. Having just returned back to work, wearing a mask in the club for the first time, my livelihood depends on it.