[atskitty2]

I am very sorry to hear this.

I know you guys were so happy, and in fact, we've talked a lot here and elsewhere throughout the years on different posts about how great things were between you both.

That being said, I offer an alternative perspective if you will allow.

Did you ever see that movie, I forget the name, with Jennifer Aniston where she was insistent on the man she was dating marrying her?

He didn't believe in marriage, she wanted it, but otherwise, their relationship was amazing?

What I remember and what struck me most about that movie (because it echoed sentiments I've had my whole life), was WHY -- meaning, why get married if it's just a construct or legal implication? Especially if what you have IS everything you've wanted?

Long story short, Jennifer's character moves out of the house and in with her sisters (who of course commiserate with her situation, and that she's in the right), and while she is living with them during her separation, she sees what married life is all about -- the dirty dishes, the husbands watching football, and completely ignoring their wives, kids running around the house with barely anyone paying attention to them, lack of romance and connection, etc...

And she realizes -- what she had/has is BETTER than being married.

Their relationship is so powerful, meaningful and he treats her so much better than all her married friends and sister's husbands treat them -- she already has everything she's ever wanted in a relationship, marriage is not the end goal, it was always about the love and relationship, and she has that NOW.

After reading your post that thought and that movie struck me -- you are wanting "more" -- yet you keep saying everything you have is the BEST it's ever been!

Those 2 don't go together.

My thought, is what if it's YOU that is scared?

Does your man need to be under the same roof as you for you to feel loved, cherished and have the best relationship you've ever had?

Or is that your fear of being alone, of uncertainty, of well, if he's not THERE all the time, and moved his SH*T in with yours, well then he can leave at ANY time (which BTW is true whether he moves in or not... or if people get married or not, there is no certainty in anything in life...)_?

Are you reaching a stage where you rely on him, love him and need him so much, that the thought of him potentially leaving on a whim, or otherwise not being fully committed through ACTION freaks you out to the point that you'd rather break it off NOW and be miserable with what if's, vs compromise with him and risk that you might lose him still?

I am coming at it from a completely different viewpoint here -- there's a saying: "When you sit down to play cards and you can't spot the sucker in 30 minutes, you're the sucker."

It sounds like you're cutting off your nose to spite your face...

At 50 -- without me being overly critical, just honest -- while still having demons and trauma from the past, it feels intuitively (without knowing everything about your situation) that perhaps, just maybe...you are causing more friction and drama and throwing something away to avoid a potential hurt.

I know you guys will talk, and that will help everything, but I would ask you to please consider this...something like what you describe does not happen very often, don't throw it away needlessly when so often in life we lose enough and endure so much pain, without inflicting it on ourselves.

I don't think you're completely off-base here, and I did think about this factor a little earlier on when I began to consider it was time to call it. I've been working through this with my counselor for a few weeks, and continue to do so.

You're right that moving in to me represents a level of commitment that I want. I don't necessarily think that my decision to move on was based in fear however, and if there's any level of reliance, that would weigh more heavily on his reliance on me (currently - it shifts with us, just as with anyone) if there's any imbalance there. We are both very independent, so, that's a minor imbalance if any. I'm not afraid to be alone. I was alone for many years before we met and so was he. I don't treasure the idea of it again, but I have plenty to keep me busy-a new career and I'm not feeling any sort of pressure for this to happen. I didn't ask him to move in recently and he refused, just to be clear. If anything, I feel more fearless in my life than ever. Sometimes I feel unstoppable with my new pursuits and goals, so I just don't think this is founded in fear of losing him later, or being hurt, or anything like that.

You bring up some valid points tho', but what I always end up landing on, is the fact that I don't want to live separately from my significant other for the rest of my life. You ask why? Well, sure - It is about commitment. It's also about time, convenience, efficiency, etc. We don't keep so much as a toothbrush at each other's place. There's no change of clothes, etc. Any time there's a change of plans, we have to go to 2 homes to do all the necessary preparations, thereby wasting time, inconveniencing each other and the friends left waiting on us, etc. But we know each other's bank PINs, phone security info, etc. It's just a pain sometimes too - just like all those marital issues that arise that you mentioned in the movie. This lifestyle has it's issues that make me wanna pull my hair out too! LOL And that happens a LOT! If we wanna cook a meal together, there's the checking to see who has what ingredients, then packing things from place to place, and then figuring out who's going where, who's going to the store, etc. This way of life has the same things to work through as those irritations and annoyances you mentioned. We work through it. We manage it and we enjoy the time anyway. Same as would be necessary if we lived together. The WORK of a relationship never stops, and that's where those movies get it wrong.

No, I've never thought he was any less committed to me because we don't share a home, but it's just not comfortable to me. I've never thought he had other girlfriends, or was keeping anything from me - nothing to ever make me question my place with him, his honesty or integrity, etc. Living separately just isn't what I want in a relationship. So, the bottom line WHY is because I just want something different for my future.

I know nothing will ever be perfect. Nothing will ever bring with it a guarantee, and I absolutely weighed the cost of losing a wonderful man, and a wonderful relationship that we've built. And ultimately, I just want what I want. And that's not something I can compromise on. That's a pretty big thing to me, and I think my ideas of cohabitating are rather progressive, even in 2022.

All that being said, as the dust settles, I remember that last conversation and his statements. I've never known him to say things without consideration, without reflection. He's not (typically)a person that says things he doesn't mean, or say things off the cuff. Even tho' he said some things in the face of losing me, it does make me wonder where his head is, what he really wants and if he actually was moving in the direction of cohabitating eventually.
He has always told me what he thinks, even if he knows I won't like it, or will disagree. So I think after a week or 2, we can chat and I'll know exactly where he stands and I can make a choice based on that, if there's one to be made.

[jns]

I think you might be reading a little too much into his actions. After many discussions, he probably knew how he was supposed to answer even if deep down he wanted something possibly a little different. Deceptive? Yes. But the unvarnished truth may be too much to handle. As a society, we condone soft lies to keep from hurting others. Just imagine of soldiers in war who had to kill someone came back and described it to their spouses in all of the detail that they could remember, which would be a lot. They would scar their spouses. Better not to say. I'm not sure what it is exactly that you are breaking up about. Have you completely analyzed your motivations? Are you sure it isn't because the path might take the two of you where your logical mind says it doesn't want to go again?

[atskitty2]

I think you might be reading a little too much into his actions. Have you completely analyzed your motivations? Are you sure it isn't because the path might take the two of you where your logical mind says it doesn't want to go again?

According to him, I wasn't looking enough at his actions. He said he thought his actions were demonstrative of his commitment to us, and care for me. He said he thought his actions spoke for themselves. And again, I have never questioned his care and commitment to me, on such a level as we were. To me, it just doesn't make sense to live apart indefinitely. I just don't want that, and don't understand what that even looks like. I ended it because, as I see it, we wanted different things, have different goals, and the two paths just don't intersect. I want a merging of my life with someone, not this weekend adventures lifestyle we have. It's great, but eventually, I'd like to share a home and a life together. Maybe not today or tomorrow, but eventually.

And in light of many friends and family feedback, JonnyR's comments, and now yours, I am evaluating my own thoughts and feelings a little more deeply than I even had before. I think I've got my head wrapped around this, but I think even more reflection and self-evaluation is the wise thing to do here. Especially after my follow-up talk with him, which I'll make a separate post about.

[atskitty2]

After some time no-contact, I texted and said I hoped he was doing ok. He responded that he was, but had thought a lot and wanted to have another conversation if I was open to that.

So we met and he began.
First, He brought to my attention that it's actually been a whole year since our last discussion on the topic of moving in together. I thought it was just a few months. That's significant because of the kind of year we've had - it's been a rough year for us both personally, as he experienced the loss of 2 people very close to him, both unexpectedly, and one under very tragic circumstances. He also got a big job promotion just before this, so has had the pressures and stress of wanting to excel in this new role, while managing complicated grief and serious family breakdown intermingled with all the mental health issues that coincide with these changes.

I've had family issues, completing an accelerated degree program with outside externships and optional extra training that I took upon myself, volunteering, working sometimes full time, and having my health affected by the stress (now ruling out MS). Sometimes we don't see each other for 2 weeks or so. We make time for each other, but sometimes, there's just no opportunities to do that.

So, yeah....we just never got back to a direct discussion on this. I guess I took the approach that, if it aint broke don't fix it. There was no glaring issue to deal with. We've just been together, supporting each other, and getting through life. We spend time together, we do fun things together, and we have built an incredibly solid friendship and romantic relationship that I have always viewed as healthy and satisfying. We have definitely grown closer this year, through all life's little messes. He's in grief counseling, I'm doing my own counseling as well to manage stress and anxiety.

Anyway, that's just some background. I share that to give the setting for how all this came about recently. The future of our relationship and goals just hasn't exactly been the priority for either of us lately. We were happily doing our thing. I made this decision to end it based on statements made recently that led me to believe his views on moving in had not progressed.

So he told me he's actually changed a lot over the past year, and he thought these changes were evident in his behavior-said he knows now he should have verbalized those changes explicitly. He said that he had been softening to the idea of cohabitating for quite awhile, but it's going to be a process for him still. We talked about his past relationship failures, mine too, and we talked about the efforts and the awareness it takes to keep a great thing alive and keep it a good thing.

I told him it feels very much like I've presented a sort of ultimatum. I've not, but it feels that way. His response to that, is that the timing is unfortunate, but he isn't telling me anything new in his own mind, as far as his goals, and what he's seen for us in the future. He said he wants a future, including us moving in together at some point.

I guess the biggest thing he shared is that he loves me. We've never said that to each other before. I knew it, but he's never said it. Neither of us have ever wanted to just toss that word around. I never felt the need to hear it, or say it...
I didn't say it back, but I am sure I do, and I will say it when the time is right.

I asked him directly about the statements he made recently that led me to my decision. He didn't remember the one comment and couldn't address in what context he may have said that. The other 2 he made in relation directly to moving in were simply because we hadn't returned to the discussion and have not established a timeline for when this may occur. He said in his mind, it could be another year, 2 years even, before both of us are ready for it. He said he hadn't imagined I would interpret that to be off the table for him, just that there are decisions to be made about the details, and a timeline for making those things happen efficiently, and with all factors considered.

We talked for quite some time, and I'll spare the details. It was a productive discussion, it was positive and I am confident that he was sincere. We left it as this: we will continue dating, but scale it back, as I'm still very confused, a bit uncomfortable with some of my own thoughts here, and just need some time to really process all that he shared with me. We'll see each other still, do our thing, and have an intentional check in often, to see how we're feeling and address things as they come up. I think we both see that we're allowing some things to sort of sit there, like that "elephant in the room", and not directly address it, because we're too tired, haven't had a chance to fully gather our thoughts, or we only have 2 hours to spend together and don't wanna spend it in serious discussion....etc.
At some point he said something like, I wanna be serious with you, and it's time we treat this relationship seriously, give it the effort we give to everything else in our life.

I think we were both ok with that plan for now.

[JonnyR]

Thanks so much for the update and background, it is really helpful.

As I read through everything, I was thinking about attachment theory and how you both sound like "avoidantly attached" archetypes, and how that can manifest itself.

But what really struck me was how you both committed (I would say a few years too late?) to giving your all to the relationship and making it your #1-ish priority.

I hadn't thought about that per se, but it COULD be the crux of everything. Not just the statement that he loves you, but more so, where do you fit on his priority list?

Where does he fit in yours?

Would moving in together "automate" that to #1? We know it won't but perhaps that was some of the deeper thought process or "feeling" process you were doing "Darn it, I want to be his TOP priority! If we lived together..."

The quickest way to spoil something great that is growing into love, is for either person to not put the other as a priority. Over time, that will degrade the relationship.

You both sound like overachievers -- that's awesome, I can relate! -- but you certainly weren't overachieving at relationships!

I like your plan and think if you REALLY put each other as a top priority -- whether you move in together or not, will not matter at all, and in fact, purely as a result of moving the other as the highest priority would spur things on automatically -- "heck, how can you be my top priority if I only reserve the least amount of time for you? You know what, let's move in together so we can be together more!"

It's sorta a self-fulfilling prophecy...

In a roundabout way, THIS might be what you've wanted all along -- the security of being FIRST to someone, if not with yourself.

I do hope this works out, you both sound like you have something real and wonderful, but were both a bit "avoidant" to truly commit - whatever the reason you both would assign as to why.

[atskitty2]

JonnyR for a long time, I've felt that we were priority, but we only really ever showed that when there was some urgent need - if that makes sense. When his friend passed, I dropped everything I had going on, stayed with him several days, and took care of "things". One day I woke up and needed to go to ER - he was on his way to me without me even asking or protesting for him not to leave work. So, we've always had each other's back. When there's a need, we're all over it. But during the course of life - me taking full time classes, plus clinical training, working, volunteering, etc...it wasn't that he wasn't priority, but after a 16+ hour day (minimum), I have nothing left to give, and he wasn't asking for anything more.
And same here...I didn't need anything from him. I was just happy to talk or text daily, and that was enough for me. We met up on weekends when I wasn't working, or whenever there was a minute tucked away to be together. My circumstances were temporary, and we both knew that, but I've been entrenched in college since we met, so this has been our life. He works a typical 9-5, but chooses to do more in order to excel at what he does, so he is often still working into the night also.

Does that kinda make sense?

But you are correct. The demonstration of where our priorities lie have not always been readily apparent. Now that the worst of my training is over, and I'll be getting into a more sustainable schedule, I am ready to take this to the next level. I want us to be openly committed, and make the importance of our relationship a surface topic, not something that is just sorta there in the background.

When I graduated, we had a huge celebration, and then we took a 10 day vaca together that was simply out of this world. We had time to reconnect, just enjoy time together exploring and relaxing, partying, and just letting loose for awhile, after being so tensed up and stressed out for so long. I realized a lot on that trip, once I didn't have so many other important things running loose in my mind. And one of them was just how much we work. We just flow together nicely, and I want that to merge into something where we have more opportunities to strengthen each other - because we're both just better when we do that.

Another of his finer points during that talk, also goes back to your point. He said if we put as much effort into this relationship as we do everything else in our lives, we'll be unstoppable. And he's correct. We're just out here swimming along together in the shallows, lovin life, and avoiding the rougher water that could really elevate us to something great....or take us over a raging waterfall, who the hell knows...but it'll be a great ride, regardless.

I'm glad we had a follow-up conversation, and that we're making an intentional effort now. That alone satisfies me. If we find that we can't continue, at least we put 100 percent into it.

[jns]

[USER="136401"]I'm glad we had a follow-up conversation, and that we're making an intentional effort now. That alone satisfies me. If we find that we can't continue, at least we put 100 percent into it.

Best wishes on your journey forward.

[atskitty2]

Best wishes on your journey forward.

Thanks!