[Ashlee T.]

If he doesn't voice opinions, he can't offend you with them. If he doesn't make decisions, he doesn't have to take responsibility for the bad ones.

Very true. It definitely seems to be more this way, like "If I just let her do it all, then I can't screw it up"....because the passive guys I have dated have definitely not been lazy men. But I don't think it's necessarily they're scared to let me down (I know that's part of it), but I think it's a lack of confidence in themselves to do things "right". And then the less they do for themselves without someone elses help, the less capable they are of doing things themselves...which then makes them even more dependant. Grrr!

He came over last night to help me plant some trees. He was a great help but had never done it before, so he told me I'd just have to tell him what to do. So I gave him a pvc pipe that was prob 3-5 feet long. I told him I needed 4 pieces (I put them in the ground beside my new trees (4 of them)to water them...promotes downward root growth..haha). While he's cutting, I was doing other things preparing to plant. He comes up to me carrying 3 pieces of cut pvc pipe and said "Uh, I only ended up with 3 pieces I'll have to go buy some more tomorrow". My mind said "How do you end up with 3 pieces when you have one piece that you are cutting into 4's?" but my mouth said "Oh...that's okay...just seems like these 3 pieces are way longer than what we need" and he said "Yeah...I messed up." and I said "no biggie, we'll make it work". But that's a perfect example of how he (and my passive fellas in the past but him much more so) has left the "thinking" up to me to such an extent that he finds himself unable to think things through correctly. That's not only sad for him....but sad for me too because I so desperately want to be able to depend on someone.

I think that someone in his state of passivity has the ability to learn and grow past some of that. I think they can gain confidence as they experience things, it just requires more reinforcement for them to gain that confidence. And I think doing something "wrong" is quite damaging to that confidence....but there's not much that anyone can do about that. However, will the passiveness transfer into other areas of life...like marriage (would I have to be the one to make every decision and think everything through?), children (will I be able to trust in his decision making and thought processes enough to leave the children with him while I have some alone time or am I going to have to literally leave step by step instructions and be on call for his constant need for direction?) etc etc.

Scary thoughts.

[WildChild]

Beautiful,
Reading this got me thinking that his passivity may have grown out of growing up with his possible genetic condition. The feeling that there is nothing I can do about this, so he simply resigned himself to whatever happens. People come into our lives for a reason, you have to discover what he has to offer you in your growth and what have to offer him. You've already moved him to take what is a huge step for him - getting tested and learning he doesn't carry this condition. That may or may not be what you have crossed his path for. He may need time and different opportunities now, to move forward with this new life view.

What has there been here for you and your personal growth? You've held your ground for what you needed to know about him and that is positive. You say you "desperately want to be able to depend on someone". Perhaps that needs rethinking? Maybe lose the "depend" and the "desperate" (I have my own "desperate" - so understand the feeling) think more of someone to be a partner? It's that vocab thing, different feeling to the words.

You are right, if he is resigned and requires guidance and leadership in everything, he would be a scary man to have children with. What he may need is some one who is less strong than himself or better yet to be in a situation where he truly has to depend on himself. Perhaps you need to be able to learn to let others find a way? Rather than leading or guiding? I don't know, Just throwing out some thoughts.

[kygirl]

But that's a perfect example of how he (and my passive fellas in the past but him much more so) has left the "thinking" up to me to such an extent that he finds himself unable to think things through correctly. That's not only sad for him....but sad for me too because I so desperately want to be able to depend on someone.

I think that someone in his state of passivity has the ability to learn and grow past some of that. I think they can gain confidence as they experience things, it just requires more reinforcement for them to gain that confidence. And I think doing something "wrong" is quite damaging to that confidence....but there's not much that anyone can do about that. However, will the passiveness transfer into other areas of life...like marriage (would I have to be the one to make every decision and think everything through?), children (will I be able to trust in his decision making and thought processes enough to leave the children with him while I have some alone time or am I going to have to literally leave step by step instructions and be on call for his constant need for direction?) etc etc.

Scary thoughts.

Have you spoken with him about this?? I can't remember if you said you had or not? I think sometimes it's important to really tell him *why* the passiveness bothers you. When J gets too passive at times, I push. Not by telling him what to do, but by saying, "no you pick the restaurant. I always pick." or "what do you think about this?" For example: our trip to DC. I've been multiple times so I really mostly want to see the things HE wants to see. I'm excited (even about the things i've already seen) because I've never been to DC *with* someone I care about like that. He asked me the other day when I was trying to get his thoughts "so what do you want to do? I told him, I've been there before. I just want to do this one thing and I don't care what else we do, so you tell me what you want to do. I don't mind planning but i need *you* to tell me what you absolutely can't live without and then I'll just leave free time open to see some other things (he likes to be flexible so I don't want everything to be *toooo* scheduled since he hasn't had a vacay in quite some time).

I think you may have to push him...not by giving him the answer, but maybe by "forcing" Him to figure it out... Then, maybe you will allow him to feel like he can freely give his ideas better? I tend to fall back a lot of times into "fine, I'll do it" or "let me just show you then" but sometimes, it makes it too easy. It might not change overnight, but perhaps if you discuss how it makes you feel and try to encourage him to do things on his own and stand your ground, it might help??

maybe they become more passive because your natural tendency is to be a bit more dominant??

[pretzel]

maybe they become more passive because your natural tendency is to be a bit more dominant??

I think this is a truism that alot of times goes unnoticed.

I'm a very, very passive personality type. Alot of it is environmental. I'm the 4th of 5 boys so my place in the pecking order isn't one of dominance. I'm naturally shy so alot of times I'm more comfortable being in the backround.

At the same time, when I do show a dominant trait, it's generally about something I feel strongly about.

[Ashlee T.]

Reading this got me thinking that his passivity may have grown out of growing up with his possible genetic condition.

Certainly could be the case. He's definitely more passive than my previous passive boyfriends. But they were passive too...ya know the type of get mad about something, harbor it and bring it up a year later. Yeah...those types.

Or perhaps I attract that type because my dad was passive and my mom was the dominant one? And although she loved him dearly, he was her only love......she will tell me even 10 years after his death that living with someone that passive was extremely difficult. And my Dad was a great guy, worked hard, very loving, etc. But I remember how my mom was responsible for SO much, she took that role because she felt it was the only way to get things done since he was so passive.... and later on she was resentful of having so much responsibility, and he was resentful of her for being "the boss". It's like she couldn't win. I find myself in relationships with passive men, and I don't know how I got there....figuratively speaking. And its pretty scary to me.

Have you spoken with him about this

Oh yes. He has even used the words "passive" "submissive" when describing himself in our relationship. I try to point out things to him in a nice way when they arise. And he does try to do better at that...sometimes.

maybe they become more passive because your natural tendency is to be a bit more dominant??

Most definitely a possibility. But I've never felt the pressure to be as dominant in a relationship as I have this one. On things that don't directly affect me, I have learned to sit back and keep my trap shut and not tell him how to do things. If he screws it up, that's his business and it won't negatively affect me. But when his actions do directly affect me, and I see him doing the WRONG thing, I feel like I have to speak up. This is a much less dramatic example than the genetic disease one, but say we're out to eat on an icy wintery evening in his truck and we've nearly slid all the way to the restaraunt. He looks at the weather on his phone and it says roads will become extremely hazardous once the sun goes down. 10 minutes later he says "Do you want to go to a 9pm movie after dinner?". I say "Yes, but I don't think that's a good idea because it will be almost midnight when we get out, and then you have to drive me and then yourself home on iced roads and we barely made it here in daylight". He said "Oh....I didn't think about that". And that's his classic response "Oh I didn't think about that". But see.....I ALWAYS have to "think about that"....and sometimes it would be nice if I didn't have to. Ya know? So I feel like in a sense, I'm forced into more of a dominant role that I'm comfortable in and I begin to feel like someones mother instead of their lover. And although he happens to be a good example and he's my current BF...he's certainly not the first that has ended up this way for me.

[cuff]

Interesting thread. I'm surprised how many women encounter passive men in their relationships. In the very beginning before I had gotten into a relationship with my girlfriend, we were in her back yard and she was getting ready to stake something into the ground. She went into the house to get a hammer and came back outside. She walked over to me to hammer it into the ground and I just grabbed the hammer and pounded it in for her without saying anything. Later on after we were in a relationship, she told me for her, that was a big deal. I couldn't understand how doing something so small and I thought normally appropriate for a man to do, meant anything. She told me she had dated a lot of different guys and most of them were passive or "wimpy" as she put it. She told me that's one of the things she likes about me that I'm not that way. It's still hard to understand that guys are like that. I grew up in a household where the man was the man. I never really encountered a passive man in a relationship anywhere in my life. But I can see they are out there.

[rcoreyus]

Some people are turned on by dominant partners - but from what little I've seen, wanting a dominant partner in bed isn't related to wanting one in real life. If anything the reverse seems more common.

Another issue is that if someone is generally easy going and tolerant they will wind up being the passive one in the relationship. If it really doesn't matter to them where they eat, where they go for vacation, what color to paint the bedroom, and it does matter to their partner, they will take a back seat in most discussions.

In my relationship it is generally that "she cares, I don't, she wins". Also, for me, "winning" is useless if she is unhappy because then I can't enjoy myself.

BD, this might not address the passive aggressive aspect of it, but a quick thought anyway..

Some people are turned on by having a dominant partner. You say he way confident and outspoken at the beginning. Maybe he is turned on by your dominance side and has therefore taken a passive stance to allow your side more room?

Then again, it could also be fear. If he doesn't voice opinions, he can't offend you with them. If he doesn't make decisions, he doesn't have to take responsibility for the bad ones. Some might even argue that the latter is just plain laziness.

[kygirl]

C
This is a much less dramatic example than the genetic disease one, but say we're out to eat on an icy wintery evening in his truck and we've nearly slid all the way to the restaraunt. He looks at the weather on his phone and it says roads will become extremely hazardous once the sun goes down. 10 minutes later he says "Do you want to go to a 9pm movie after dinner?". I say "Yes, but I don't think that's a good idea because it will be almost midnight when we get out, and then you have to drive me and then yourself home on iced roads and we barely made it here in daylight". He said "Oh....I didn't think about that". And that's his classic response "Oh I didn't think about that". But see.....I ALWAYS have to "think about that"....and sometimes it would be nice if I didn't have to. Ya know? So I feel like in a sense, I'm forced into more of a dominant role that I'm comfortable in and I begin to feel like someones mother instead of their lover. And although he happens to be a good example and he's my current BF...he's certainly not the first that has ended up this way for me.

I think Men in general (not all necessarily but seems to be this way for me) don't think that far in advance. Most guys tend to live a lot more in the now. That's not necessarily because he's passive as much as he just doesn't plan ahead. I don't think of that as someone lettting someone else choose or think about it, I think some people's minds just don't work that way. I have found that to be the case with many guys that I've dated...

Not sure you're gonna solve that one just by making him less passive.

[LanaBear]

I think Men in general (not all necessarily but seems to be this way for me) don't think that far in advance. Most guys tend to live a lot more in the now. That's not necessarily because he's passive as much as he just doesn't plan ahead. I don't think of that as someone lettting someone else choose or think about it, I think some people's minds just don't work that way. I have found that to be the case with many guys that I've dated...

Not sure you're gonna solve that one just by making him less passive.

I agree. One of hubby's best friends favorite saying is... "Worry about it when it happens." Which yeah, is all fine and dandy, but when he tosses that little saying out before deciding to drive across a river as a response to well, what if your truck gets stuck and starts taking on water. "I'll worry about it when it happens." Um, yeah, not smart, especially when getting stuck is exactly what happened.

[LanaBear]

On things that don't directly affect me, I have learned to sit back and keep my trap shut and not tell him how to do things. If he screws it up, that's his business and it won't negatively affect me.

Where you like this at the very beginning of your relationship with him?

I'm just wondering, and don't take this the wrong way, but I'm wondering if he's intimidated/scared by you. You are obviously a very strong willed and opinionated person, those types of people (I'm one too) don't just turn it off. Even by not voicing your opinion, suggestion, idea, etc., I think you still through off this type of demeanor. Not saying, you specifically, just in my experience. If he is naturally a passive person, well, then, boy oh boy, I'm sure he second guesses all thoughts and actions that he does or for that matter, doesn't do.

And, where does that leave you? Making all the decisions, planning all there is to plan, wearing the pants in the relationship. If that's not something you want or can live with, then, what do you have left?

Just a thought...