[Princess_Dee]

I hope they are some marriage counselor or professionals that are reading this posting because sometimes I am not sure what to do anymore in my relationship. We have been together for 9 years and still are not married yet. We have lived together for 8 years and have a 5 year old son. I feel as though we are married now but we have not gone through the actually ceremony. My boyfriend understand the importance of marriage but feels as though we do not need to go through the ceremony because we do not have much family and friends that we attend, why spend money on a ceremony when we have already been lving like married couple for years and he thinks that men only marry women to please them for the ring and dress. I do not want to get married to help if they only reason he is going to marry me is to make me happy and shut me up. I am not sure want to do but I definitely know that I would like to get married and if I do not get engage within a year, I may leave...help

[sourpuss]

Why not just go down to the justice of the peace and get married and then have a small dinner party with your closest few friends and family.

How is your relationship otherwise? I can't imagine leaving someone over not having a wedding ceremony if the relationship was good.

What's with the poll question? Was that a mistake or intentional? Is he out clubbing with his friends or something? I'm really confused by this whole thread. From an outsiders perspective, it seems like there's a much bigger issue that maybe is bothering you but you're using the marriage thing to try to pin point it...? Am I way off base?

[jns]

Defuse his arguments and see if has some real ones underneath. Tell him you will wait for the ring and either rent a dress or go with one you already have. That should get rid of the money objections. Go to a Justice of the Peace with a couple of friends, or maybe to Las Vegas. And yes, after being together for 8 years and having a son of 5 years, he should be wanting to make you happy. That is reason enough, don't feel bad about it. (This post is the 4th post and after Hopeless Dork)

[Hopeless Dork]

Are you happy in your relationship? Is he faithful ? Loving? A good father? Is he the love of your life?

If the answers to those questions are yes, do you think you'd be happier if you left him? If you went on to find a guy that wasn't faithful, wasn't loving or a good father , wasn't the love of your life but WOULD marry you?

I understand that you want to get married, and you have a right to have your wants addressed... but people get married and divorced in 6 months, married men cheat just as much or more than guys in committed living together (unmarried relationships)...

If you are happy, the ring or lack of one won't change that. It is quite literally a peice of paper. He's been with you for 9 years, that shows he thinks you are the one he wants to spend his life with...

I understand your desire to get married , and that should be addressed with him, if its an issue of money, like Sourpuss said, you can have a court ceramony and just a little house party with a few friends... but to consider leaving all you have is something you should really reconsider.

Happiness, true love... its not as easy to find , to hold on to... as a person that has it, and taking it for granted would think it is.

What does marriage mean to you and which ways do you think your relationship is suffering from not being married and what things do you think will get better with a ring?

[Karma3]

I think you missed the boat on this one. Traditionally the order is Marriage, Live together, have children. The both of you decided to do the reverse....is there really any point to get married now? Why? You know the old saying...why buy the cow when you get the milk for free. I don't want to sound harsh but, when you gave up your consideration of marriage before living together and having children....why the change of heart now?

[KMonte85]

I think you missed the boat on this one. Traditionally the order is Marriage, Live together, have children. The both of you decided to do the reverse....is there really any point to get married now? Why? You know the old saying...why buy the cow when you get the milk for free. I don't want to sound harsh but, when you gave up your consideration of marriage before living together and having children....why the change of heart now?

Wow. Why buy the cow? I guess now it's time for me to say, sorry I don't meant to be harsh BUT....

So because Dee entered into a monogomous relationship and chose to have sex with her partner, live in the same home as him and have his child, she's given away her milk, or "worth" so to speak? Because that is what that "cow" statement implies to me. One could just as easily look at Dee's boyfriend and say, "why in the world would she want to marry THAT guy? I mean, really, why buy the pig when you can have the sausage for free" But nope, apparently Dee's at fault and she should be the one punished for having an adult, monogomous, sexual relationship without marriage.

Just because Dee moved in with her boyfriend and had a child doesn't mean she gave up her consideration of marriage! That implies the criteria for a marriage-worthy woman is to remain chaste and refuse to cohabitate until the day she marries her husband. If that's the case, I would say most women in this day and age have "given up their consideration of marriage" already, myself included. Having a child and living with the father of the child does not make a woman any less "marriagable" than any other woman.

If anything, Dee's situation of cohabitation and a child should encourage the couple to marry, for legal benefits including insurance purposes, tax benefits, and financial support in the event one partner dies the other has the means to support the child and the household.

Dee, if your boyfriend says he understands the importance of marriage, then he is missing the point that marriage is more than a ring and a dress and making a woman happy. Marriage is a legal bond that allows for increased legal protection, benefits, security, and rights for each other and your child. It could just be that he is more hung up on a "wedding" than on a "marriage." Talk to him, and explain it isn't the ring or the dress that's important, you don't need a fancy wedding, but you do want to get married.

[WildChild]

I think you missed the boat on this one. Traditionally the order is Marriage, Live together, have children. The both of you decided to do the reverse....is there really any point to get married now? Why? You know the old saying...why buy the cow when you get the milk for free. I don't want to sound harsh but, when you gave up your consideration of marriage before living together and having children....why the change of heart now?

Why buy the pig when all you want is a little sausage?

[Karma3]

Looks like I hit a few nerves with this one. Just to verify, I used the "cow" expression instead of the "pig" expression as it sounds like the male in this relationship isn't pushing for the marriage. I only stated my opinion on this matter as I know sooooo many girls today who are living common law and having children. Nine times out of ten, it's the male in the relationship that doesn't want to get married. I'm assuming that the partner is OK with this as they decide to move straight forward and start a family. Then as the years pass by nine times out of ten it's the female that starts fussing about not being married. That's why I commented "why now"? I would think that bringing a child into the world and raising it is more of a commitment then marriage isn't it? And if one cannot commit to marriage, I've often wondered to myself why they had taken the next step for children. (Just my opinion)

[WildChild]

I think KM has the perspective, it's not so much about committment - lets face it, marriage does not guarantee that - but the legal aspects. Laws vary from place to place, in the US they vary from state to state. With a child in the picture, if one of the parents dies and they are not married, it could affect not only who gets personal possessions and the house, if they own one, but the child's legal guardianship. At the very least, they should consult an attorney and have proper wills drawn up.

Many people see no reason to "sanctify" a relationship with a ceremony. I think this is a missunderstanding of the purpose. The marriage ceremony formalizes a realtionship publically. It is essentially a legal contract. Marrying or not should be a considered choice, not a default in either direction. I look to a time when there will be far more options in "marriage" but this will require removing the religious componet from the picture. There has been an effort in my state and some others, where religious fundamentalists have tried to get passed a law that created different classifications of marriage. Most notably they want one that does not permit divorce ever under any circumstances. I don't know if this has actually passed any place yet, it seems a step backward and would create a situation ripe for abusive relationships with no possible way out. That level of commitment needs to be an understanding or belief on the individuals part. Of course we've seen what can happen when one wants out and the other does not want it - it can lead to murder, I see no reason to encourage that thinking. Know someone can walk away should create a greater effort to work things out.

What I see as more viable would be different types of agreement; 5 years with a renewal option, commitment to raise a child together - not necessarily to share a home and bed. How about short term marriage contract, as sort of tour of duty agreement for people whose life/work styles don't fit a traditional marriage pattern, there could be an agreement to monogamy for a set period of time, both tested 'clean' and with some sort of temporary benefits or not as fits the situation.

Most of our social conventions are based on religious prescripts not what is pratical and best serves us in the modern world. Many people choose to have children without marriage. We are still in a transistional thinking, women can support themselves and a child but still don't earn what men do. As a society we do not give much value to child rearing - it isn't priority in the real world of business. That needs to change and for those of us in the US, we as a nation are far behind the rest of the developed world in this.

[eleni]

is this something you talked about before you started living together and had a child?
if he's always known that getting married is important to you then he's not holding up his 'end of the bargain' as it were.
if its something new then i can kind of see where he's coming from, like if its not broke then why fix it?

getting married isnt just about a ring and a dress and a bit of paper
there are all sorts of legal and financial benefits/pitfalls to it.

i think having a discussion along the lines of 'i want to get married, this is something i feel very strongly about and im not sure that i can continue a relationship if thats not your goal too'
NOT an ultimatum just a frank statement of what you expect from the relationship.

Kmonte has good advice

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