[kygirl]

Well BD suggested I share what's been going on the last little bit with me, so I'll try to keep it short. A little over a week ago, I found out that my ex-boyfriend had been out on a date with one of my close friends. This was a friend who had spent a ton of time with me through the breakup and had previously told me that she didn't see John and I working out (go figure). I found out via IM.

Part of me knew, I think, deep down that she might have liked him a bit, but I never said anything to her about it. I didn't want to embarass her or make her any more uncomfortable than she probably already was, and I never in a million years thought she'd act on it. The thing is, they both did it behind my back. From his stand point, I was ****ed because we were trying to be friends and I talked to him the day after and he said nothing to me about it. From her standpoint, well she flat out lied to me.

She went out on the date to him and saw me the day before and after and never mentioned it. (she later said she was afraid to tell me the day after bc she thought I might hit her which might have happened since I'd never been in that kind of situation before). I was completely devasted. This was almost worse than the breakup...actually it was worse than the breakup. Even though the breakup had blindsided me, this was a person I had been sharing my thoughts with, leaning on, etc and the whole time I feel like she was plotting about how to get John in her web.

She started talking to him under the preface of acting like she was trying to check on him for me, but I really didn't know she was contacting him regularly and chatting with him. The other slap in the face was that we had went out one night with some other girlfriends of mine. She told me she was meeting a friend before for drinks. I asked her when she arrived how it went and who she went with (since she hasn't been living here long) and she LIED to my face about it, and then just hung out with me that night and other days the next week like nothing had happened.

She only told me any of this because she was under the impression that the relationship might develop and wanted to tell me "before something happened."... Well I consider you talking to him without telling me, having drinks and lying about it, then going on a date and kissing him WAY past something happening. She started talking to him literally 2 days after we broke up... TWO DAYS. I was heartbroken.

At this point, I've pretty much cut her out of my life and it hurts. I didnt' want to have to do that, but I dont' feel like I'd ever be able to trust her again. The thing is, we were friends for 9 years and she threw it all away to date a guy she wasnt' even sure about. She knew his downfalls bc I had confided in her about things that we were working on, etc. I just still am having a hard time dealing with it all. He and I are trying to be cordial bc I have to see him at school, but I went off on him after I found out, and he apologized for going out with her and hurting me. (Last I'd heard, he'd been blowing her off)

From her standpoint, she's apologized (kind of). It was like half apology and half excuses for why she did it. I am so frustrated about the whole thing and even more frustrated that I even care what happens to her at this point. I just didnt know I could be so betrayed by someone who I genuinely cared about.

So that's why I haven't been around much. I'm starting to talk to people again, but honestly I'm a bit apprehensive about dating. Not such much even about the guy as wondering how I am supposed to really trust anyone anymore after all of this. If someone like that can betray me, why should I trust anyone else?

[Hopeless Dork]

I hate to say it women... but we are so ugly to each other. I wanted to start a thread on this recently over something I was going through with women being cruel to me over my appearances when I was overweight and dressed unfashionably and are now being just as cruel to me over my appearances that I am fit and dress sexy... that women just freaking hate each other. This horrible thing that you have experienced is just driving that point home to me.

Chris rock makes a joke that could not ring truer when he says that when a guy introduces his friends to his gf they say 'wow, she's nice... i gotta get me a girl like that'... when a woman introduces her friends to her bf they say 'wow, he's nice... i gotta get me HIM.

Ugh, I am so disgusted on your behalf. Women, women, women, just look at what we do to each other, all the heartaches you experience are usually at the hands of another woman that didn't respect you, if women respected other women they wouldn't have affairs with married men, they wouldn't hook up with their friends boyfriend, they wouldn't flirt with a man when he's obviously with his chick. But no... women do all that. Then they turn around and wonder why this 'prize' they took from someone else has moved on to someone else... well 'duh', you didn't think you were special did you?

Men would never get away with treating women badly if women didn't allow it. Your "friend" allowed your boyfriend to disrespect you, she gained insight into your relationship in a completely unfair, underhanded way... she knew his strenghths and weaknesses like a seedy corperate spy and went after him like a headhunter, equip with all the knowledge to make his simple head spin.

What a jerk, both him and her. I am so sorry for you that you opened your heart to a woman that stomped on it.

[LanaBear]

Awww - KY - I am so sorry to hear that and I do not blame you one little bit for cutting her out of your life. It sounds like she had been planning this, especially to be one of the ones that told you she didn't see the two of you together in the long term. She is an ugly person who does not value a friendship and is all in it for herself.

I hurt for you, the hurt is so evident in your post. She's not a friend, she probably never was.

Hugs to you girl! He's a jerk and she's well, I won't say it because it would get edited out anyways. It may not seem like it now, but you are better off without either of them in your life.

[Hopeless Dork]

It may not seem like it now, but you are better off without either of them in your life.

That right there is the truth. As much as you hurt losing him... if he was of such weak character to fall for your friends shennanigans... thats not the kind of man you want in your life long term anyway. She manipulated you in order to manipulate him and its WORKING... he's being played. Its not as if they just met and fell in love. No, she probed, she knows what he likes and doesn't... she is probably faking to be everything she thinks he wants but the true her, the one with the cold caculated heart will be revealed to him eventually.

She must be so proud of herself *eyeroll*. She saw a man she liked because YOU had him. Men are ALWAYS attractive when they are in a relationship because women see 'ohh look how he makes her feel... i want to feel like that'. Oh... look how he holds her hand isn't that sweet? I wish it were me!! And instead of keeping their eyes open for other men... they hone in on the one they think is good boyfriend material, based on the fact he is already someones boyfriend. Its a disgusting tactic, and many women do it.

And many men are just simple enough to fall for it, oh wow, her friend wants me too, i must be special, no,.. you are a monkey she wants to put in a suit, she didn't fall for you... she fell for the idea of what you have with your girlfriend. Anyone could have filled those shoes. The quality of a girl that would be so cruel to her own friend is one that will not make a good girlfriend, wife or future mother. She has shown herself to be sneaky, a lier, selfish , unloyal... yeah real winner there.

[WildChild]

I don't understand this kind of behavior or thinking. To me anyone in a relationship or who has recently been in a relationship is off limits. I don't even consider dating them as a possibility. Some segements of our society fuel an attitude between women, of competition. It is done both consciously and unconsciously. Part of it is about making money, it fuels cosmetic, clothing, gym membership, all sorts of sales. It also sell as TV and movie fodder. That is pretty purposely done. It reinforces stereotypes of women as catty, back stabbing, opportunistic, self serving people. Unfortunately that manufactured message can and does affect people's behavior, expectations and perceptions of women.

There are also strong social/religious/family messages about all this too. Little girls are fed the idea that they require a man in their lives to be a whole person, to have a certain status, to support them, there are lots of reasons. In many cases girls are taught they need to do whatever it takes to "get" a man or to "secure" his affections. If nothing else being a bride is set as an end goal, as if once that is accomplished your life's mission is fullfilled.

When we see our gender, half the population, our sisters, as competition, as the enemy, as dangerous to our interests, we block out a huge source of love, caring, support and understanding. Sadly, around the world, cultures have created a situation designed to isolate women from each other. It keeps them from being each others protectors, from coming together to be strong and unified, from learning from each other, from truly trusting. This feeds patriarchy and all women and men suffer for it. It is women who mutilate little girl's genitals, it was women who bound little girls feet, it is often women who consign other women to the flames in suti, it was often women who accused and comdemed other women to torture and the flames as witches. Why? To earn favor with the controllers of their society and world - men. Or so they think. To whom does the child or young women who might realize what is coming and try to resist having her body mutilated turn to, the women who are doing it or the men it is being done for? This cycle of abuse must end. It will only do so with those of us willing to stand up and say, "No". It needs education, it needs women and men willing to go against the flow of generations of conditioning and consciously break the pattern. People are doing this and some are dying in the struggle to create change.

This behavior is reflected in both big and small actions, in our words and attitudes, in our expectations and responses. Stop feeding it whenever you can. KY, I know you are hurting but for your own sake you have to work through it and let go of it. Try to see this other woman with an eye of compassion. That doesn't mean you should trust her or get let her close again but pity her. Her thinking will and is, harming her. She may never admit what it is she does. She may never see why she does it. She is caught up in this negative pattern and is probably part of a long chain of people caught up in it.

Don't let her behavior isolate you from other women. We need each other's support, understanding and caring. Let her go with compassion on your side and let the old BF go too. Focus on what you need and on your relationships with the network of other women (and men) around you. Otherwise "they", the negative, win and we all continue to lose.

[KMonte85]

ky, I'm very sorry to read about this twisted turn in your already difficult breakup. You're obviously hurting, as you should be. This is a terrible situation, and your ex and your friend should be ashamed for the way that they acted. Of course, they most likely aren't (as you've learned from some half hearted apologies), so you now know just how much influence to allow these people to have in your life.

Our lives are not static; we experience changes all the time, experience good fortune and misfortune. These events test the friendships we have formed with people. Some of those relationships may reveal themselves as being unhealthy, as is the situation with you. 9 years is a long time to be friends, which accounts for the intense betrayal you feel, but she has now revealed her true intentions. She's shown you just how much she cares. And it's time she goes. Same with your ex - his inconsideration for you after only 2 days of not being your boyfriend shows his moral fiber as well. This is toxcitiy at its worst.


If there is any peice of advice that I would like you to hear - it is please don't allow these two callous individuals to squash all trust you have in others, or stop you from developing new friendships and relationships. If you do that, they've won... and they've turned a warm beautiful person to another uncaring, unhappy being trudging along in life. Don't do that to yourself, don't make yourself an island, and it is a lonely existence.

Take time to heal your heart, but don't allow it to become so scarred that you can never open it to another person.

[kygirl]

I agree with everyone. I mean I *know* I shouldn't let this keep me down forever. I do honestly feel sorry for her because I feel like stable, strong woman wouldn't act that way...

At the same time, it's hard because you start to think, well I didn't do anything that I am aware of (other than apparently being happy) to make her decide this is okay. She said she felt better about doing it because she knew I was already trying to talk to some people and get myself back out there. I think at that point in time, it was mostly just trying to take my mind off things because that was honestly pretty short-lived.... But anyway. SHE was the one encouraging me to date again. It was like everything she wanted to twist around and try to use for herself was somehow initiated or encouraged by her. It really makes me wonder how many times friends have said things to me, not because they want me to be happy, but because they want to be happy. It's like I question everything now.

Good example...There's a guy at school that I am friends with. We have a few classes together, mutual friends, whatever. We've been chatting some, just kind of getting to know each other. another friend of mine was like "Um, I just don't see you two together. I mean, I just feel like you are way above him. " Really? You know nothing about about him other than seeing him around. She's never talked to him. Admitted it wasn't that he was unattractive, she just thought I could do better. Come on now people... Why is it that people are so adamant about thinking I shouldn't date someone to the point that they voice their opinions before they even talk to the guy?? Then, she's like 'well he reminds me of this other friend of ours boyfriend who she dislikes'...really?!

Now don't get me wrong. I'm in NO hurry to rush into another relationship. I'm open to whatever comes along but I am not marrying the guy. I mean, geeze. We're just talking to each other to see if maybe there would be potential to date? And he's in law school, has a job, is a decent age range for me, etc... I could see if I was doing something that seemed bad like dating a drug dealer or someone fresh out of high school, but why do people do that?

I don't know. It just makes me wonder how strong a lot of my friendships really are sometimes. I mean, I've had some friends that would be friends with me if I burned their house down, and I realize that. But why are women so catty? THEN, If I have a bunch of guy friends, girls get more catty because they assume I'm somehow trying to take their man. Um, No. No, I'm not. It's just ridiculous to me that we can't all be freaking civil.

Going to HD's point, I was overweight most of my teen life, so I realize how girls are. It's amazing how you can lose 85 or so pounds and suddenly another 500 when your friends decide you're now a threat. But then obviously, I trusted someone close to my boyfriend and this happened. So, maybe they aren't quite so crazy after all....

I guess it was bound to happen eventually, and maybe I'm just too nice, but I don't get it. I truly do not get it.

[Little_Miss_Me]

I'm so sorry this happened to you.

But trust me when I say, cut communications with both, and look at it like a learning experience. Both of them aren't worth tears, or anger.

It happens all the time, and the only thing you can take away from it is to never, NEVER, be that type of girl.

If a guy is taken, no matter how attracted and how much he seems to hate his current relationship, don't bother with him. If a guy that has been dating your friend comes on to you, ignore him. While it sucks that you have to go through all of this, just remember not to become apart of the system. Karma will bite your "friend's" (edit). Until then, be happy and try and leave the situation be.

You poor thing. I wish I could smack every girl that doesn't respect one another.

[KMonte85]

At the same time, it's hard because you start to think, well I didn't do anything that I am aware of (other than apparently being happy) to make her decide this is okay. She said she felt better about doing it because she knew I was already trying to talk to some people and get myself back out there. I think at that point in time, it was mostly just trying to take my mind off things because that was honestly pretty short-lived.... But anyway. SHE was the one encouraging me to date again. It was like everything she wanted to twist around and try to use for herself was somehow initiated or encouraged by her. It really makes me wonder how many times friends have said things to me, not because they want me to be happy, but because they want to be happy. It's like I question everything now.

THIS is good. THIS is making you see that maybe the people you've been associating yourself with are not the best people for you. Not that you need to mistrust everyone you know, or just.. everyone. BUT I think its good to once in a while have a little reality check about if you're really surrounding yourself with the right people. You've already found one weed in your garden of friends, perhaps there are actually some other weeds that need picking out too. And (to keep my fun little metaphor going) you're planting seeds for new friendships and relationships to blossom by talking toand getting to know others with similar interests.


I'm guilty of this myself.. I've got toxic friends... I've posted about one here. We're all in this situation, and every time we're faced with if we should keep someone in our lives, we are given an opportunity to better ourselves, and open up a "spot" so to speak for someone else who is more in tuned, more caring, and more positive.

[CHANDLERS WISH]

Aweee, darling it happened to me, twice actually in my youth... And it does hurt and it does suck but then I look at things differently...

Firstly, I blammed myself, for telling too much to those girls about my ex, all it really did was make him sound exciting as I threw in the things I missed about him, our sexual life, it made them tempt fate...

Secondly, I realised that they were never friends, rather "acquaintences" as you are correct friends will not hurt you like that..

Thirdly, I listened to them as well and got the same "attitude" sorry sort of but you put it out there about him and I became interested, he didn't want you any more so can't see where the problem is... (acquaintences)

And, lastly, him... Any ex boyfriend that can flirt with your friend, kiss them, sleep with them, etc, definately was meant to be an "ex", no respect, is there.. So I realised how glad I was that he was no longer mine, in reality the girls may have decided to go there, but he welcomed it, wooed them into his bed... another notch..... not ready to settle, not man enough an not A MAN

So, I basically, laughed and said, "well, no probs, see he loved me, he just slept with you" and true to form, both were mini affairs of sorts and those ladies, were left realising after that my words rung true....

Remember, she was an acquaintance, you can count your friends on one hand over your whole entire life, trust me

CW