[Ashlee T.]

Of course in any instance in which we vent, we project our feelings upon the situation. That's totally expected and normal. I'm going off of the way Mark has described his wife and their previous relationship to us in some of the beginning posts a few weeks ago which did NOT put his wife in a horrible light and let us into a side of this where he is well aware he has contributed to this problem for 12 years and now he's trying to change. I just want to make sure I'm not feeding his fury and doing him an injustice by only focusing on his wifes flaws. He has gotten some excellent advice here. 12 years doesn't get fixed over night. And it DOES take two, he can't do it alone. But I get the sense that he's not.

Mark, If your wife is uncompassionate now, it sounds like she has always been that way. Some of us are hopeless romantics and some of us are not. Some of us have a soft spot in our hearts for people who are suffering etc, some people do not have it as much as others. The woman you married is a woman who is different than you, that is part of the woman you fell in love with, your goal cannot be to make her more like you or you are destined to fail. She is who she is, you are who you are, you have to learn to meet in the middle and be careful not to get wrapped up in fantasy in your mind which in turn makes you nitpick her every move because she isn't the person to live up to that. I think true healing will occur when you realize that some battles aren't worth a setback in your relationship. Choose your battles so to speak.

Where sex is concerned, I feel deeply for you both in your situation. You admitted you haven't been the best husband in the past 12 years. Now you've decided to change, but she's not a light switch. So if she's receptive to your advances and her menopausal body doesn't react as it once would've, she's a failure, you're disappointed and devastated. But if she pushes away your advances, you're hurt and rejected and angry. Now, when you try to rub on her she automatically associates that with you making an advance, which can't turn out well for her given the situation. Either way, she's the bad guy, she's failed, and she makes you unhappy. THESE set setbacks. Choose your battles.

I tell alot of people I think they should leave their relationship. I don't think this one is trashcan worthy....not yet anyway. I believe this one has a chance of being turned around, but it's going to take the both of you. It's going to take choosing your battles, learning to let the little things go, learning to focus on the big things, the things you two CAN change together. And I think you're a good enough man for the job for sure.

[Guest]

I'm just venting, sorry to vent on you all. I just can't do anything to make her happy. My highs and lows are based on hers. When she wants me near, I'm happy and full of the good love feelings. When she is upset and mad, I'd just as soon sleep in the garage mad as he'll. Welcome to my living he'll called marriage- I'm starting to not let her highs and lows bother me, let her be pizzed off or tickled pink, I just don't care one way or the other anymore- just whatever, all I want to know is when the beer is ice cold. Hot beer is a terrible thing for a guy like me.
Brimming with love for someone just gets you hurt, I'm learning. Better off not showing any emotion at all, just stone cold. Let them do whatever and not be positive or negative about any of it. Better to be neutral about everything and not let the feelings show, that way you can't be blamed for not being one ay or the other. Best to down play any emotions and stay numb to it all. That is what society has turned men into, stone cold, no feelings or you're labeled a pansy or an *******. I'm neither anymore, just don't care one way or the other. Whatever happens, let it happen, like I said- Stone Cold- no emotions, no feelings, nothing to show, nothing to hide from, just numb to it all. Let no one in and let nothing out, just live minute to minute and let everything around you happen and forget about it. Whatever happens, it just happens.

[Ashlee T.]

I'm just venting, sorry to vent on you all. I just can't do anything to make her happy. My highs and lows are based on hers. When she wants me near, I'm happy and full of the good love feelings. When she is upset and mad, I'd just as soon sleep in the garage mad as he'll. Welcome to my living he'll called marriage- I'm starting to not let her highs and lows bother me, let her be pizzed off or tickled pink, I just don't care one way or the other anymore- just whatever, all I want to know is when the beer is ice cold. Hot beer is a terrible thing for a guy like me.
Brimming with love for someone just gets you hurt, I'm learning. Better off not showing any emotion at all, just stone cold. Let them do whatever and not be positive or negative about any of it. Better to be neutral about everything and not let the feelings show, that way you can't be blamed for not being one ay or the other. Best to down play any emotions and stay numb to it all. That is what society has turned men into, stone cold, no feelings or you're labeled a pansy or an *******. I'm neither anymore, just don't care one way or the other. Whatever happens, let it happen, like I said- Stone Cold- no emotions, no feelings, nothing to show, nothing to hide from, just numb to it all. Let no one in and let nothing out, just live minute to minute and let everything around you happen and forget about it. Whatever happens, it just happens.

This is the exact polar opposite of everything you said yesterday. Can true undying deep passionate never ending love turn so quickly into indifference? I don't think so......

I do my fair share of venting here too.....it's a great place for it!! BUT, you will be challenged, and you will learn alot about yourself that maybe you didn't want to know!

[Guest]

Exactly, she's indifferent to it all right now- nothing really matters to her and thought, hey... if it works for her, maybe it might just make her wonder WT? So, if I'm indifferent and cold maybe it will help her see how it makes me feel. So, just whatever happens, let it happen. If we sleep together, fine, if not- oh well, one last thing I can be blamed for. Can't blame someone for anything if they aren't there now can you? Sometimes in life you have to make tough decisions about how much you are willing to let someone keep hurting you. Put up the shield and no one can come in and rip an already bleeding heart in two. A bleeding heart will heal, but not one that is torn into 2 pieces. With all that said, at what point do you seem to not care one way or the other? Self preservation comes at a cost, how much depends on how much you are willing to let someone keep hurting you. Maybe it's best if they think you could care less. Maybe it takes that approach and some time apart, and I mean physically far enough apart that you can't come running back to kiss their wittle booboo all better, to let them know you aren't their play thing and you have real feelings. I know some people I could stay with about 3 or 4 hours away from here for a couple of days. Maybe even a week or two would actually be good for us. Who knows, it might be the start of something else. It just depends on what happens and how they react to the fact that you are gone, might even give them the idea that you are seriously thinking about doing something different.

[Guest]

I know one thing for sure about myself, when I'm done with a relationship- OMG, I am So done! I wouldn't walk across the street to wet on their teeth if they were on fire. I first get very distant and very quiet, then out of almost nowhere affection just makes me infuriated. I physically move them away from me and walk away. When I get to that point, I am truly finished with it all. I won't even go back to get anything when they are there, I want no contact at all and will go to great lengths to keep any contact from happening. Whatever it takes- When I'm done, boy am I Done! When that happens, no amount of begging or pleading will sway my decision, it just makes me extremely mad.

[Guest]

I have no idea what's going on in her head. I'd be scared to death to even be in there for a second. The only thing I know is that I'm going through he'll and back for her and she is dragging me over the mountain peaks and down through the friggin swamps. I'd just as soon be dropped off about half way up the mountain and left there to do my own thing.
She woke up all mad this morning, probably because I was in the same bed- who knows. Like I said yesterday, I'm just staying on my even keel now and she can continue her up's and down's, she's just not dragging me along anymore. Drama, she lives for it. I have told her that I love her and we need time to work on our marriage, she continues to think our marriage needs to be on the back burner and her career is more important. The State of Missouri will shut down if she takes a week off to work on her marriage. OMG, the State will collapse if she isn't there to hold it up - she issues licenses to the nursing homes for God's sake. Like her boss can't take care of it for a week? Like I'll say from now on, I'm on an even keel and whatever happens, well it just happens. I've pleaded my case and I'm finished. I just finished a heart to heart with my son about it all and I think he understands that it has nothing to do with him and that he can't do anything to stop it and it's got nothing to do with him. I'll always be there for him and I'm not divorcing him, just his Mom and I have grown apart.
This is all I've got for today-

[pretzel]

Hey Mark,

Personally, and I don't know how this will end between the two of you, but I will say that anger and resentfulness only breads anger and resentfulness in return. I honestly don't fell that you are that type of person who would treat her in that manner. Also, keep in mind that the way the two of you treat each other going forward is going to have a major impact on your son's view of how a relationship works. If he starts seeing the bitterness between the two of you becoming greater, then he'll get the impression that that's the way things are. That's not true. Yes, sometimes relationships end on bad notes, but other times relationships just run their course and the ability to understand that this isn't always a bad thing, then the process of dissolving what has effectively become a business of marriage can be done quite amiacably. That I feel is a much better lesson to teach.

That being said, I still think that the two of you can work this out. As BD has said, the highs and lows have become pretty extreme, imo which isn't helping. I know what you've said about her health (I'm not convinced, btw) and her statements about your past sexual history leading up to this point. Honestly, I think she's become so defensive and guarded that she isn't really getting the chance to sort out all of this. It seems her highs and lows are polar opposite of yours. It seems both of you are riding roller coasters that are competing against each other. Somewhere along the way, both of you need to step back, see where the positives are and build on those. Let the negative aspects become less important (SEX). I'm not saying it's not going to be hard. I'm atleast three years into this, others alot longer, but all in all, you can't dictate the pace as much as you'd like to. You can't expect her to get to the same page as you when both of you are reading differnt books.

[Ashlee T.]

IF she took off a week to "work on the marriage", what would you envision that week being like? In your mind, what would that accomplish?

[Ashlee T.]

And also, do I understand that you have spoken with your son about divorcing his mother? Did you talk with her about having this talk with your son beforehand? I'm inclined to think this is something two parents should agree upon and do together with a child. And it also doesn't need to be done unless the parents are 100% they are going through with a divorce....otherwise you're troubling a child for no reason.

[Ashlee T.]

Mark, Due to the number of posts on the same issue, I have merged this thread with "What in the world Now?" and "Ongoing battle". This will help the users to keep current on your situation and be able to give the best advice possible instead of having to go from thread to thread.