[rcoreyus]

Pretzel, it sounds like she isn't willing to fix the problem - and I'm not sure it can be fixed even if she does want to. I doubt that asking for an open relationship would go over well - if you even want that. I think that leaves you a choice:

Live a near celibate life
Cheat.
Leave the woman you love.

Its unfair for you to need to make this choice, but I think that is where you are.

[pretzel]

Pretzel, it sounds like she isn't willing to fix the problem - and I'm not sure it can be fixed even if she does want to. I doubt that asking for an open relationship would go over well - if you even want that. I think that leaves you a choice:

Live a near celibate life
Cheat.
Leave the woman you love.

Its unfair for you to need to make this choice, but I think that is where you are.

Agree, which is why I'm in such a miserable mood. Although option B is not an option.

[SaharaJim]

As Babygirl told me on another thread- you have friends who really want to "help" but we can't "fix" this for you or even give advice that would "fix" it. BUT we are your friends and sympathize and want things to be "better". I "know" it doesn't "fix" anything but as your friend I say :"Dumpleriggnin farley ruddinschnatz! raginfragindumplegratz!" HANG IN THERE PRETZEL...YA GOT FRIENDS! Whatever you decide to do or not do.

[pretzel]

As Babygirl told me on another thread- you have friends who really want to "help" but we can't "fix" this for you or even give advice that would "fix" it. BUT we are your friends and sympathize and want things to be "better". I "know" it doesn't "fix" anything but as your friend I say :"Dumpleriggnin farley ruddinschnatz! raginfragindumplegratz!" HANG IN THERE PRETZEL...YA GOT FRIENDS! Whatever you decide to do or not do.

Thanks Sahara,

Best sounding board on the net.

[WildChild]

WC, I think this is where I'm at now. My ex and I went through similar battles with our sex life and it wasn't fun and part of our splitting was the fact that when she lost her sex drive I took it as a sign that it because of me and how I was in that relationship. It wasn't the whole reason nor necessarily the main reason but none the less, it played a role.

When I met my wife the chemistry was instant and powerful. It seemed like we were perfect for each other even though our personalities differed. The bond and the passion we both admitted was the one thing that was claringly missing from both of our previous marriages was the thing that I really thought was the glue that would continue to be strong. That's why this hurts so much and which has compounded all the other issues.

You know quite a bit of my story and the frustration and pain I subjected myself to. I understand what you are saying. The LOML and I had that, a passion and intensity I had always knew was possible but never had. He was amazing at first and then just shut down and started shutting me out. I held on and kept trying for over two years. He did something similar sexually, it got less and less frequent, more and more about him. It became painfully unavoidable to see that he needed control so much that he preferred his hand, several times a day, rather than any connection with me. I left and it still hurts. Every person, every spirit, has its own path, even when they seem to fitting into and following the crowd, they are dealing with their own growth - or avoiding dealing with it. Having them in our lives is either part of our growth or hindering it.

Some people aren't meant to be in our lives forever, we cross paths, we share, we learn, we should grow and if the sharing and the growth stops, we need to move on or find other ways. Sometimes what we have to learn is how to move on so we can keep growing. If someone has trouble committing, following through and being supportive, then staying may be their lesson. But for myself and I suspect for you as well, what we need to learn is how to receive, how to get what we need. We aren't selfish or mean people, we don't run around abandoning people we let into our lives just because things get a little challenging but we don't ensure that our own needs are met. We have to learn our own value. We have to learn that it is not only OK but imperative that we have joy and happiness and we don't find that in stuff, we find it in connection and relationship. When we keep getting into and staying in relationships that are essentially designed to create misery and drag us down, it serves no one. Certainly things could be much worse, but that is no reason to stay.

If you drop a hammer on your foot, and you aren't wearing steel toed boots, it hurts, you get a bruise, you might even lose a toenail if that's what it hits. The first time you say," #%**! Won't do that again". You do not pick up the hammer and drop it back on your foot and say, "Well this is better than if it was an anvil!" Yet we do essentially that in relationships. Of course we have emotionally bonded, we don't want to just give up and walk away and abandon them. But in essence haven't we been abandoned? By someone who is still there? They don't have the guts to leave, they don't have a problem with limiting our lives. In reality they aren't limiting us. We are limiting ourselves by allowing them this level of control. Yes a relationship has to be about balance and we do compromise sometimes. Over time it should balance out that we meet halfway. But these kind of relationships don't work out that way. Some people achieve balance in ways we aren't willing to; they have affairs, they fill their lives with stuff, numb themselves with alcohol, drugs, TV, porn, video games or sports, or a hobby or become workaholics.

The other thing to look at is whether we need to learn different ways to communicate. Why do we let things get to this point? What could or should we do differently? I've been in counseling and been told that I did all I could and that I had communicated but they refused to listen and it was time for me to move on. I've been through that cycle and it has actually, in some ways, caused me to be less communicative - why bother if you are repeatedly in relationships where you are not heard? This is going backwards not forwards. You are in much the same situation.

Only you can chose your path, you determine your responses.
(some of these questions just might tick you off a bit - if they do then pay attention)

What are you getting out of this?
Do you get to be a suffering martyr?
Do you get a justification for why life isn't all you want it to be?
Do you get out of doing certain things?
Are you using her? "It's all her fault"
Are you recreating the relationships you grew up around, your parents, your grandparents, the neighbors?
Are you and your wife making the stereotypes you grew up true? Women don't like sex. Men bring home the paycheck and don't get any.
Are you fulfilling deeply implanted religious ideas? Life is tough and then you die. You get your reward in the afterlife. You are supposed to suffer and do without things to be "good".

I could go on and on, you are intelligent and can think up more if needed.
What are getting out of this situation?

[pretzel]

WC, thank you from the absolute bottom of my heart.

You truely are one of my best friends here and will always be.

[kygirl]

P, I didnt' have time to read everyone's posts, I tried to skim quickly so forgive me if I am just repeating, but I basically agree with everything I read. You deserve to live the rest of the life you have with happiness and someone who is willing to work with you. Regardless of the basis of the issue, the fact that she has't even attempted to try to fix this, is insane to me.

When you love someone, you want to make them happy. You both want to make each other happy, and sometimes that means sacrifice. I find it absolutely HORRID that she cannot even make the sacrifice of looking up some information or asking questions of a physician for someone who (in my opinion) should be one of the most significant in her universe. That is not love to me.. it is PURE selfishness.

My heart hurt when I read your post. I can only imagine the pain and surprise when you heard that from her, but I hope you realize that you deserve so much more. You are such a good soul. I hope your wife wakes up and realizes that. I would definitely talk to her about how you felt when she said that. If she still doesn't get it, I'd really consider my options, and i hope you are already.

My thoughts are with you!

[CHANDLERS WISH]

Pretz

When I met my wife the chemistry was instant and powerful. It seemed like we were perfect for each other even though our personalities differed. The bond and the passion we both admitted was the one thing that was claringly missing from both of our previous marriages was the thing that I really thought was the glue that would continue to be strong. That's why this hurts so much and which has compounded all the other issues.

When we hurt from a previous situation, if we carry baggage from that previous situation and someone comes along and gives us that missing link, then we may "think" we see, this is it. Powerful chemistry I've had as well, wanting more and more only to be treated a tad well, wrong and so my whole thoughts on the subject went out the door and I walked real quick and lost that chemistry with that person, as I am important... There has to be more.

You say that your personalities differed.

Did your passions?
Your ideas?
Your goals?
Your core values?

Or was it personalities only and in that what were the different traits?

I'm asking because if most of the above were there as well? Maybe if you work towards those so you are both on the same "dream" of a future, things may turn, personalities differeing aren't a big deal...

But if you answer to yourself, none of those matched either, then there is no visions to work with is there?

I am sorry you are hurting so much, I really am.

[BabyGirl]

Here you are Pretz, amongst friends who care, with many different solutions and some same Advise.
I will put in my thoughts now and hope it will add to your finding a way to make a decision for your happiness.

I have mentioned this to another poster a time or two.

It is Time to do some serious Soul Searching. You need to Separate the Love from the Sex, in your Heart and Mind, just for a short time. Ti8me enough to take Inventory of your relationship. The Pros and the Cons.

One way to do that is sit down with pen & Paper ( or Computer these days ) Lol. And do what my Gram always called the ' WHAT IF's ".

Examples...
If the Wife was in an Accident or had a Disease or a Traumatic Emotional / physical experience that she Simply could not have Sex or Make Love.. Are there enough qualities, dreams, time spent memories desires to stay with her ? Called in my Grams " book " True and Lasting Love."

What if something from the Above list happened to You , do you think she would stay with you ? Do you think your Love for each other has the strength to survive " till Death Do You Part " ?

Now, you can go back and write the lists,

The good and the not so Good and then the Bad...

What is Good and keeps you in Love, what makes you happy, what makes you smile, what makes you tingle all over ( About Her ).

The Not so good. What irritates you or frustrates you , but you can still be with her in a Mostly or Semi _ Happy state ?

The Bad, What makes you get fed up, want to end it, want to find someone else ( About her ).

In these Lists, be through, very through. Add them up, 1 point for each thing, take the Good ( say 13 ) Take the not so good and deduct 1/2 point for each ( say 10 not so good = 5 ) then take 1 full point away for each Bad. ( say 2)
Add the Not so good and the Bad points together then Subtract from the Original Good ( 13 points ) So 13 Good reasons to stay, 7 not to stay, you would be at about a half way mark. 6.5.

Next , as Gram used to say, You take the " I " Factor in,
I need, I want, I Can, I Cannot.
List the things you can negotiate and the things you just cannot see yourself changing or accepting. 1/2 point for both of those subjects.

Next the I Want and I Need. Needs are things to Survive, Wants are things you don't have but would make life easier and or happier. 1 point for each.

Take the total of the Wants and Needs and deduct the total of the Can's and Cants. If one is less than the other one. ( 7 wants and 4 needs ) ( 8 cans and 3 Cannot's ) Both equalling 11 , which is a total of 22 .

Now finally take the 6.5 and add the 11 from the Good, which is 17.5, now take the Cannot s ( 11) from that you are still with a 6.5 total.

Which in a 50/50 situation, you have the upper marker on a successful marriage by 1.5. Now you sit down and talk with her, heart to heart, calmly explain your feelings, wants needs and what you feel you can be successful at in your marriage with her, with you doing all of the " work" on the marriage.

The best part of the mathematical ( Grandma's Words of Wisdom ) * What I call Grams teachings
Is that you now have a 1.5 ( ahead of Game Time ) so that means that you give Yourself and your Wife... 1.5 months to get some progress (6 weeks).

In 6 weeks, you should have No Guilt in deciding to stay or leave. That is when you can Put yourself First and seek that Happiness you deserve or just decide that what you have outweighs the New Search for happiness and going through it all again. Which can be a good thing or a heart breaker > But it will be a Decision you have made, knowing you have done your best to solve the issues.

[WildChild]

A little complicated but very astute. The Ben Franklin technique is a little simpler but a similar idea. A piece of paper, a line to divide it down the middle, one side +, one side -, start listing. What is good? What works? What in the relationship makes you happy? What is bad? What doesn't work? What makes you unhappy? Just list the positives and the negatives.
Which side is longer pretty much tells the story.