[Butterflyz]

Yes, I work and help to pay all the bills. He has never given any real reason why he doesn't tell me where she lives. When I ask about why it is such a secret he always counters with "Why is it so important to know where she lives?" or "What difference does it make?" and then will throw something in my face about how would I like it if my ex-husband brought his other (the one he cheated with and that's why we aren't together) to pick up my kids, and that I wouldn't like it much. I tried to explain to him that there is a difference with the situations b/c she was a friend of mine and they did what they did so that ended both relationships and that it is a totally different situation than the one with them.

I have even told him that him saying something like that makes me question if she is the one telling the truth about their relationship ending. But then I argue with myself about the situation b/c she used to call my house looking for him to find out when he was coming to see the kids (she has two other kids that he was helping to raise, they were together for 10 years. He is still close and does for the other children as well, which I encourage). He stayed the night almost all the time and if they were married I dont see any woman calling someone they think their husband is cheating with to find him and not mention the fact that he is her husband and try to figure out what is going on. So now I have found myself questioning both of them and don't know who to believe. My grandmother, who was a pretty good judge of character and lies (I don't know how the woman knew but she had a 95% accuracy) said that she believed him and so should I. I would have gone to her with all of this but she passed almost 2 years ago. So I ended up finding this site.

He pays his child support and even went as far as to go to the courts and request on his own that it be taken directly out of his check before he even gets it so that no one could ever say that he didnt pay it. He even volunteered to pay over a hundred dollars more a month than the judge ordered so that he could still help with the other two children in some way. So she can never use child support as an issue.

Things weren't always like this in the beginning. For almost the first year of our relationship, I wasn't around his kids and he would only come around me and my house after my kids were asleep or when they were at their fathers house. If they were home on the nights he stayed over, he would be gone before they woke up. We agreed to keep our children out of the drama of their parents' dating lives. I figured that if things didn't work, then I would be protecting them of seeing different people coming and going.

I talked to his kids on the phone sometimes as he did with mine, telling all of them that we were just friends. I looked at it as protecting them and he agreed. When we started being around each others kids I used to go with him to get them and drop them off. It wasn't until I was pregnant with my son, did she start telling her story of how things happened and he stopped taking me with him. She moved twice since then and I didn't know where she was last time and he just helped her move again little more than a month ago, and I dont know where to now. All of the secrecy and drama, for lack of a better word, started around the time I got pregnant with our son.

He claims that I am over-reacting, being insecure and that I need to work out my issues. He has even told me that I am the one causing the trouble between me and him by keeping bringing all this up.

If something ever happened while his daughter is with me, she has a cell phone so that she can be reachable by both her parents at all times and would be able to reach her mother. But if they were both together and something happened, I don't know. I would have to be able to get to one of their phones to reach her mother.

He also has an older son, 16, with a different woman. He is close with him, he is here every weekend, calls the house every day. He even comes and calls just to talk to me, which I love. I even talk with his mother. When she cant reach his father she calls me. I know where he lives. I pick him up and drop him off (without his father). And there is none of these problems when it comes to his son's mother. That is what makes this situation with his daughter's mother so hard to understand.

I guess it is possible that she is threatening access to his daughter if he does things with me around, but why wouldn't he tell me something like that? And if she was being that way, why would he still want to be friends with her? It makes no sense to me.

[Favored]

i dont' think your over-reacting AT ALL! Sweetie, you need to buy Steve Harvey's book!

My opinion is you should call off the engagment and move on with your life. 5 years....and all this is still going on? It will hurt, but this all too much! There is something definately going on. Women's intuition is very real!

[Karma3]

This guy needs to get his head out of his ! So he is willing to jepardize your relationship to satisfy this other women? Sounds like this women has some sort of hold on him. Why? He seems to of gotten over his previous ex so why not this one too? I've heard of ex's becoming friends....I hope this isn't the case. Maybe that's why he doesn't want you to know where she lives, just in case you drive by during the day and he's there? Usually when someone hides something, it's for a reason. He seems to be going that extra mile to hide things from you. There's two ways to deal with situations....the easy way or the hard way, and it sounds like he isn't going to just take the easy way to make you happy.
If you live with this guy and have a child together, what he does IS your business. I would be giving this guy an option....either come clean with what's going on or hit the road. It's a pretty simple request, enough of the nonsense.

[CHANDLERS WISH]

I would suggest that he loves his children, all of them and that children are his world.

He gets on with his son, 16 years of age, to the extent that his son is a regular at your house... Probably doesn't exactly get on with the Mother, persay, she has moved on with her life.

He has 4 other children at this other house ( not all his ) but four of them, and when you dated, he would stay over there, if they were all there, so he could say goodnight to them.

He, at that point in time, may not have been able to let go of, the "family" situation, nor her and so when he stayed over, things were still a little okay.

She may have thought that he would go back to her, because of the children, except you got pregnant and that all changed.

Since then she has more than likely stated, "she's not coming to my house", ever....

He may be in a catch 22... I suspect he goes there alot to see the 4 children and I suspect that she still trys to get him to go back with her one day, she in other words has not gotten over him.

As for him, he may simply love the way she is playing the cards, not realising how women can be conniving, it's possible...Or, he may be having his cake and eating it to...

I don't think he could handle never seeing 4 children.

He now comes home every night to you? Every night?

CW

[Butterflyz]

Yes he is here EVERY night. He goes out once a week and hangs with his friends, but he comes home. He is usually either home or out with one of the kids. He enjoys spending time with them one on one, it's good for all of them. He spends time with me too. I don't think that he is 'sleeping' with her, I just don't think he is honest about how he feels about her or something. He is too secretive when it comes to anything dealing with her, and is always too ready to jump to help her when she calls... even if it puts us in a situation. I don't know how to make him understand my side of all of this. And lately, I am questioning if I even want to anymore. I just don't want all the children hurt in this mess.

[WildChild]

If you don't think it's sexual, is this more of a concern about openess? They had a marriage, they had a child together, that is a strong bond and it's unfortunate that so many people when they find they can't live together well, can only live apart in antagonism. The world would be a better place if more people had the maturity to end a relationship and remain freinds and supportive of each other.

Can you set time aside to have a calm, considered conversation about your concerns so that you can be reassured of his committment and caring? Your stressing about this may create a situation where there is no grounds. How sad if you were to find out too late you drove away a good and caring man by being resentful or supicious. I'm not saying his behavior is entirely right but make certain you aren't making him wrong just by plugging into some expectations that is just an arbitarary norm? You certainly won't lose anything by letting go fo your expectations and trying to really hear what he has to say about it.

[CHANDLERS WISH]

Well, it could be her, as I said... Seems she started rumors at some point.

He has 6 children all together, to spend time with including your little one that you have together.

His 16 year old turns up at your house regularily, it's only those 4 kids and therefore, her.

There is a communication problem for sure between you two, a relationship is built on Trust and Honesty and he has to just explain that she hates you for instance and doesn't want you to know where she lives anymore, and he needs it that way to see his kids.

Is there a reason why he "can't talk to you like that?"... For instance if he did open up as WC states, then you would make sure you would find her and give her what for which in turn may cause a problem for him?

If not sit him down and talk rationally with him and explain things to him and ask him to put himself on the other foot....

CW

[Butterflyz]

I have no desire to even speak to her at this point in our lives. I could care less if I ever even seen her. She has been a trouble maker for both me and him. She even was telling his family some of those things and has some of them not dealing with him because for whatever reason the took up for her. The one's really close to him told me that yes, they like her and will continue to deal with her because she has been part of their family for so long, but that doesn't make what she is doing right and that it will never affect the fact that I and my children are now part of the family too. So even his family is mixed up in the drama.
The thing about going with him to pick up or drop off his daughter is that, we could all be out and rather than drop her off and then we all go home, he will take me and my children home and then take her home. That makes no sense to me. Or if we have plans to go do something when his daughter comes over, we wait at home for him to get her and bring her back and then leave. That doesn't always make sense to me either. Some exceptions to that one are if the place we are going is right near the house, then it doesn't really matter because we would be coming back this way anyway. But if we are planning to go accross town or something, the detour makes no sense. At least not to me.

I agree that we are having trouble communicating. I don't know if I am not expressing myself correctly, or if he just isn't listening or caring. I don't know where the problem is. I also agree that trust, honesty and respect are key to relationships. I have trust in him for everything other than this confusing situation. Where there is so much adamacy for secrecy how do you trust? And where there is secrecy, there is no honesty. And can you have respect for someone you don't be honest with?

We talked for a few minutes yesterday on the phone (he was on his way from work) and made arrangements to discuss somethings later tonight. It was actually all brought up by him this time. He was out with the fellas on Wednesday, so maybe he got advice from them or something b/c in all the times we have discussed this issue, he has never been the one to bring it up. Maybe there is a chance to work things out.

[WildChild]

The picking up and dropping off his daughter may be their special time to talk freely with no possibility of interuption. In the car is where I've had some of the best talks with both my kids.

As for his family, of course they maintain a relationship. His child is part of all of his family and as her mother, good relations with the ex is good for the child. This is mature thinking and behavior. Your children are Yours, not his, not part of his family - except through his relationship with you.

All we know of this situation is what you have shared and I get a feeling you may have expectations for the relationship that ex's should have, that don't allow for a cordial or even freindly or affectionate separation. It does happen, maybe all too rarely. Just because a couple realizes that they can't happily share a home doesn't mean they have to become enemies. Is it possible (as I said all we have to go on here is a few brief statements you've made) that your attitude is what is keeping him from opening up? Have you set up a no win situation for him? Can you open up to the possiblity that he loves and is faithful to you but holds a repectful bond of affection for her as the mother of his child? Aside from getting along with his family, what has she done to earn your emnity? Can you take the high road on this? From what I have seen in life quite few relationships end because one person creates a situation the other cannot 'win' in, there is no way they can be true to themselves, completely honest and keep the relationship. In other words jealousy or unrealistic expectations set the stage for disaster. It would be really sad if this were the case.

When the two of you talk, can you; stay emotionally neutral, listen to what he has to say and instead of giving a kneejerk response from an emotional standpoint, then tell him you need some time to think about it (if the situation warrents that)? Too often we respond without really thinking or considering and later realize that we were being hyper-emotional. This can save a lot of pain and a lot of trying to back pedal or make applogies. You have all these children involved and I doubt either of you wants to make a hasty choice.

[Ashlee T.]

"He who has nothing to hide, hides nothing. " I believe that. This might sound strange, but whether he is physically cheating or not shouldn't be spotlight here. The spotlight should be on the FACT that you know he hides things regarding her from you.....the FACT that you've heard with your own ears messages...the FACT that you're planning to marry a man and become a step-mom to a child and you don't even know where she lives (and you've been with him for 5 years!!!!!)......the FACT that he acts aloof and unconcerned about an issue that causes you obvious grief.

Cheating or not - is this the type of man you want to marry?

Still being "friends" with her to maintain a happy situation for their daughter? Fine. But it should be 100% about their daughter, and 0% about the two of them.

And now you feel like a jealous freak right? He's probably even accused you of being insecure or jealous.....right? His actions, his behavior, his choices have invoked certain reactions from you....but now you're the one left feeling insecure..."am I overreacting?". Does your intuition tell you you're overreacting? I think not.

Maybe he's not "cheating", maybe he is. That's not the point.

You make a choice. A choice for yourself, for your children. As others have said, express your concerns in a calm way (don't whine...guys hate that).....if your feelings are disregarded, tossed to the side......then YOU make a choice.