[gialyn]

Hi everyone ! I was wondering if you could perhaps advise me regarding something that has been eating at me and I'm not sure who else to ask.

I apologize in advance for the length of this post :/

Background: When I married my husband, I knew he had chatted online in the past and had several online relationships, three of which translated to physical relationships offline (before we met). Apparently when we started dating, about a month+ into it, was when he 'broke off' with his last online girlfriend. But I later found out, his way of breaking up was not really telling her he was breaking up but was by not responding after they had an argument. He had previously told her I was just a friend, when we were not serious but dating (I didn't know this then).

He has a flirty personality at work, leading people to think he is interested in them, even when he is completely not.. at all.. its just his personality. But he isn't so outside of work and even considers himself shy. Now, when we got married, my condition while accepting his proposal was that he needs to stop chatting online, stop playing World of Warcraft that he had just started playing and was started to get addicted to.

He had asked out a friend of mine while we were still engaged and had broken up with me a few weeks later, at which time he had told me the above. She refused him and met someone else. A year later my husband asked me to marry him and said he had made the biggest mistake of his life and would spend the rest of his life making it up to me. So anyway, after talking about the above, we got married in 2 months at his insistence (he said if I said no, he would just move out of state and not be in touch anymore, which I didn't want at that time since he was such a good friend).

Three years later today, he is a serious World of Warcraft addict. He never stopped playing and gets really mad at me for 'trying to take away the one thing that helps him relax after all the stresses at work'. After huge arguments and almost getting to the point of a divorce, he has gone from cutting the hours/changing his nick/name/guild, to going back to playing a lot. A few days ago, after missing some really important deadlines, he said he is deleting his account effective March '10 and is diverting his attention to his career etc and Facebook applications to pass his time. He hates socializing, *hates* calling people over, to the point of me not having any friends anymore because I was never allowed to call them over or hang out with them without him having a whiny hissy fit over it.

I figured with him cancelling his World of Warcraft account, we'll probably start getting our life back in order. Except, he still plays everyday, and a large part of the weekend but now he expects me to be ok with it because he is not 'raiding' with a guild anymore, just doing.. um one man thingies.. or something. But he is constantly chatting. He says it is a public guild chat and only some remarks are private and they are all guys anyway. Except the nicknames are female and before marriage, he was apparently friendly with two women in his guild, 'just friends', but enough to know about their personal lives, dating details etc.

Saturday, he took me out to lunch for Valentine's day, took us on a drive to get us out of the house and we spent a nice afternoon out and got home. He said he wanted to avoid the V-day rush at restaurants. Then on Sunday, Valentine's day, since he woke up, he was on the computer, on World of Warcraft, chatting, questing?.... and didn't seem all that impressed with the gifts I had got him (liked the cards etc though). At lunchtime, I was going to take him out and offered to get something to go if he wanted me to and he jumped on the idea and said he didn't want to come along. At about 2pm I was getting really irritated because he had not got up once from his computer and it was V-day. He got mad when I mentioned it because he had taken me out on Saturday and said I should pretend yesterday was V-day and he thought he would let him relax atleast on one day since he has to go back to work on Monday. Later that evening, when he was chatting away, I looked at him and asked who he was typing to. He said he was talking to a nick (female nick) who was in his guild and it was just about food and didn't understand my problem because it was just a person in his guild.

So now, I don't know what to do:
1) He has already closed his WOW account effective next month which he keeps throwing in my face everytime I ask why he is still online on it.
2) He keeps chatting but says it is completely tame, public except for some messages and its all technical related to him helping some people in his guild with the raid stuff even though he isnt raiding anymore.
3) He says he hates going out, hates hanging out with friends and has nothing to do now that he stopped WOW insinuating its my fault that he is bored and is switching to Facebook apps now to keep busy.

Am I overreacting that he is still chatting to females online (who he insists may not even be a female since men are online with female nicks too, except I've heard his guild people talk on mics during raids and a lot of them are female). I don't really want to go down the path of divorce, because he is inherently a good person, with a good heart and I am still in love with him. I don't know if he is again having an online relationship that he just broke off... I don't know if this even counts as an emotional affair. I know he had feelings for another person about 2 years into the marriage but said he just took time to get over this person and had not done anything about it other than tell one of our friends that he was still in love with this other woman (in real life).

But I don't know how to respond to him anymore, he has an answer to everything and I am always the 'nagging wife' everytime I try to talk to him about it. He absolutely and vehemently refuses to go to counselling and says I am the one who needs to trust him and let him relax.

This is the loneliest I have ever felt in my life, can't really talk to my parents about it since they're the type who usually tell me to work my problems out myself to learn from them, and my friends don't really seem to want to keep in touch even though i tried to get back in touch with them the past few weeks because (I don't blame them) I haven't really been allowed to call them over or keep in touch with them the past few years, so why should they care now. I don't know how to make new friends since I'm currently not working since a month (layoff), and don't meet anyone.

Last year I was really depressed and almost came to the point of wanting to just end it all. I think finally realizing that the problem was serious was probably what pushed him to decide to close the WOW account now finally, in addition to screwing up with missed deadlines due to his raid nights and scheduling his career activities around raid timings.

Darn, this has been one long boring post. It's ok if you haven't read it all. I just needed to tell *someone* about this before it completely eats me away inside. I know I'm probably overreacting but I hate it that he is still chatting to people online. i don't know what to do. I don't know how to make it stop/make it better. And he just changed his email password a few days ago so not sure what that is about either.

Thank you for reading/listening and I hope you have a good day ~!

Take care.

[Hopeless Dork]

I've seen this type of behavior with addicts of all sorts...and procrastinors too. "I'm quitting in March". He tells you that, may have even cancelled the account effective march however... what that does is buy him time to play as much as he wants this month, after all, he is 'cancelling next month' This is like the I will eat a whole pizza because I'm starting my diet MONDAY, attitude.

I really hope for your relationships sake that he does cancel...I mean some people DO go on a mad drug binge before hitting rehab and are successful... but more times than not they get so re-engrossed in the habit deciding to quit gets pushed back another month, another month... another month.

Him playing Wow isn't the problem. Him playing Wow TOO MUCH... is the problem. But thats the nature of the beast with those type of games, they reward you for playing longer... playing more. Those that only spend a minimal amount of time don't get invited to raids, blah blah blah... those that have to turn off the pc in the middle of something like that are shunned. Its really a game better suited to those with NO other professional or social obligations if they plan on being very successful at it.

To me, if you villianize WOW, something else will be along to take its place in short order. Instead focus on the real issue and that is how much time he is spending with you, and how you want to increase that. He will see how he needs to cut back on online gaming in order to facilitate more time with you if it matters to him.

But at some point you have to decide if you factor in to his daily agenda or not.

[stressed]

I wanted to say that I also carefully read your post and that you are not the only one in this situation. There are many women out there who deal with WOW in the same way you do.
He seems to find it easier to connect and socialize with people over the internet, in a safe environment that rewards him and makes him feel good about himself, instead of making the effort to connect with you and his friends. It is easy for him to do and it works: he has an excuse ready for every question, he is liked by the guild, he receives attention by people, he is rewarded with Gold and new equipment every week. You are still there, making the dinner, taking care of him, (I wonder how your sex life is on top of it all) and you basically just let him do what he wants. He even changed his password to be safe that you won't sneak up on him.

You are being passive and it suits him. The WOW cloud is all over his head and it has been for years (I've experienced it within my family, it is horrible). He says he is going to quit in March, I guess you can wait until then, as then if he doesn't you will have all the right to react as he would have lied. Give him a chance to see if he has realized that he spends too much time with this thing (many people reach this stage and move on). However, I don't like that he changed his email password (this is where his buddies email him to). Such an act is usually fishy. I have my email running 24/7 on a mail browser, anybody can read it if he wants to as I have nothing to hide. So does my fiance (NOW, after years of hiding emails from girls and other hurtful things).

If you really want to stay with this man you have to give him time. If he is like you and loves you as much as you love him, then one day he will look at himself from the outside and say "what a jerk I was". If you don't see this happening, even slowly, then you have to reconsider. Emotional cheating hurts, it doesn't matter if it's an email or chatting, when you see or hear about your man saying he's in love with a girl he met on the net while he says he loves you straight to your face it hurts. But these relationships are based on something imaginary, they fill in the blanks with the image of a perfect woman they have created in their head and think they are in love. But they are not in love, because love has its ups and downs, while an online fling is mostly based on imagination. Even if he claims he was in love, he really wasn't. This is why it's easier to move on from such a form of cheating than a real life kind of cheating where he would have been 100% sure if he'd be in love or not and he'd have physical contact with the person.

Somebody once told me, you cannot say you're in love unless you've had sex with the person. I didn't understand this at first, but I do now, years later.

What ultimately must be done: He must leave the imaginary world of Internet, where people present the image they want to present, and come back to the world of the living. He has to find new hobbies away from the computer (get him a console even, as long as a keyboard and mic are as far away from him as possible), get him interested in music again, find what he likes doing, ask him to invite a friend (not a party, just something short, but enough to make him have contact with a real person again and find that it's more rewarding than typing to a stranger).

Let us know how it goes and keep posting

[gialyn]

Thank you, both of you, for your reply. I truly appreciate your thoughts and advise.

I spoke to him about it last night. The real issue. His response was that this is his personality, it is my problem that I am not independent enough to need him to be around and we are expecting something completely different from this marriage and he is ok with it but I seem to be the one with the problem. He pretty much said he will not change because he would be miserable and that would not be him and this is how he is. He has never liked to socialize and never will and loves the online world because it allows him to relax and escape and avoid the stressors from daily life.

Bottomline: after spending 7 years with him, I am now being told to accept his way of life or walk out of this marriage. Wow. I did not see this coming. If I walk out, I start my life literally from scratch with no friends around to help me, he has completely isolated me from everyone I used to know.

Anyway, thank you once again for taking the time to read and respond to my post. It means a lot that even people I haven't met seem to care more about this than my husband.

*Hugs*, hope you have a nice day.

[LanaBear]

Just because he doesn't like to socialize doesn't mean you can't. If he says you can't and puts that kind of control on you, then there are other issues.

But what is stopping you from going out and doing your own thing? Go volunteer, join a book club, an activity group. Find out what interests YOU and go from there. Become friendly with coworkers, go to lunch, go hiking, grab a camera and go take pictures of random things.

Even though you are married, it's so important to keep some individuality and still be your own person.

[stressed]

Thank you, both of you, for your reply. I truly appreciate your thoughts and advise.

I spoke to him about it last night. The real issue. His response was that this is his personality, it is my problem that I am not independent enough to need him to be around and we are expecting something completely different from this marriage and he is ok with it but I seem to be the one with the problem. He pretty much said he will not change because he would be miserable and that would not be him and this is how he is. He has never liked to socialize and never will and loves the online world because it allows him to relax and escape and avoid the stressors from daily life.

Bottomline: after spending 7 years with him, I am now being told to accept his way of life or walk out of this marriage. Wow. I did not see this coming. If I walk out, I start my life literally from scratch with no friends around to help me, he has completely isolated me from everyone I used to know.

Anyway, thank you once again for taking the time to read and respond to my post. It means a lot that even people I haven't met seem to care more about this than my husband.

*Hugs*, hope you have a nice day.

It's so sad that he approaches it this way. One day he will 'wake up' and look at what he's done to you both. But you won't be there for him anymore, as he doesn't deserve you. So quitting in March was a lie...he doesn't want to, he's happy the way things are.

It's not "his personality", this kind of personalities need counseling, it is not healthy to ignore real people and be stuck with the Internet. Living in a fantasy world instead of the real world is crazy. I don't see what he was expecting from this marriage. Did he think that he'd be spending all his free time with his computer and then go to work? That's not marriage, that's being 15: playing games and going to school. How would it be if you had children? Didn't he ever think of that? Is this the kind of man a woman would want for the father of her children? I don't think so.

There's a huge difference between not wanting to socialize and ignoring your partner for online people and games. And to tell you that he would be miserable with living with you without those people... it's just sad, I feel sorry for this man, he needs counseling.

As for you, don't expect him to change. I was hoping that he'd have a small part somewhere within his brain that wouldn't be affected by Internet, but it doesn't look like it. You cannot have such a man for a husband, it wouldn't be a life for you. It doesn't matter how many things you would do by yourself or outside the house: every time you'd come home you'd find him glued in front of the screen and that would ruin your mood and would make you unhappy. You'd do everything and he'd always say "let me play, I have work on Monday".

You can make a new start, you don't deserve to be unhappy because of such a man. You can leave him for a few days at first, as a test, to see if that works or not. If he still doesn't care at all then you will know what to do.

*big hugs back* and be strong.

[CHANDLERS WISH]

The blame game.

When ever someone does not want to accept their bad behaviour, they blame the other person.

The fact that he's asking you to leave, means he's really peeved off that the time is coming near where he won't be able to play WOW.

What do you feel will happen when that day comes? He'll mope, accuse you of all sorts of things, get irritated, mad.. He's addicted.

It seems that WOW has won.. Not you.

It also seems you have if I can be blunt, the wrong husband. He was always addicted to the Computer, emotionally cheating, lying to you, and to other women.

He seems to also have no passion for you, but alot for what "he" wants, to win, on this game, to help these people, they are his family, they are his mates, they are his day and night fixes.

Unless he actually seriously sees this, and realises what he's lost/losing, he will loose but take heart, because there is someone better out there for you and you know what to look for next time. 7 years is not long, you'll be okay. I left after 7 years but not for that reason, rather addictions to motor bikes, mates, cars

CW

[gialyn]

Thank you again for your responses, I really appreciate them. Update: We had a long discussion and I asked him to move out considering I'm the one who had paid for the mortgage when I was working and told him if he doesn't think he can prioritize me over his gaming/chat when I had told him how I cannot be with someone who chats online (and has had relationships)... He thought about it all day and when he got home, apologized for ignoring me and said he doesn't want our marriage to end over this and that if he has to pick between his game and me, he will pick me and wants to make this work.

So yesterday, he didn't log into WOW at all. Now, this seems odd, but after finally mentally preparing to live on my own, now that he wants us to continue and has stopped playing World of warcraft ALL the time.. we have absolutely nothing to do together... its been so long since we did. He doesn't like the same sitcoms I like, hates going out/hanging out with people, doesn't want to play card games/Wii games etc with me... I'm now actually nervous about what we're going to do after work today and every day now onwards. We used to have things in common, used to watch shows/movies together that he now says he only did because I liked them and didn't really like 'em.

This is almost funny. Thought one problem was kinda solved and now I discover apparently we have nothing he wants to do that will replace his WOW time. I wonder if this has happened to anyone else.

RE: why I don't have any friends/separate activities, I'm beginning to realize how controlling he has been in a subtle way... restricting me from doing things on my own while complaining that I'm not independent enough to leave him to play his Wow. I'm going to have to figure out how to overcome my shyness and start getting back in touch with people and persist in it.

It feels like starting over after 7 yrs, last night he just sat next to me as I watched a show and mentioned how boring it was.. and well.. I couldn't thinik of a single thing we could do that he would actually like and not whine about. O boy.

But in the meantime, *Big Warm Hug* to all of you. After all the tears and heartache over the past few days, you have no idea how much it has meant to me, to have this venue to talk about this and for all of you to care so much as to read all of my yapping and give me constructive advise/support re: this. Thank you once again from my heart..

Hope all of you have a wonderful day.

[Iseulda]

gialyn - I don't like to come in on your thread sounding like caustic Cassandra but one day of no WOW means almost exactly nothing.

Having read your posts it isn't the WOW I'm worried about so much as the controlling behaviour. I'm worried because it all sounds very familiar.

Isolating you from friends and family, turning his bad behaviour back on you, telling you he never liked the stuff you did together, etc., all the way to his proposal (marry me now or I'll leave you forever!!) - this is all classic abuser behaviour. I bet he even tells you that you are abusive towards him - I have a feeling those 'nagging wife' comments are more than just that. I have a feeling he calls you all manner of things.

His complete refusal to seek help is another sign - God forbid that an unbiased outsider might say that you're being reasonable and he's not. Even the way he dealt with the V-Day thing - He 'humoured' you by going out Saturday so you were to shut up and leave him alone Sunday, he was basically telling you he didn't enjoy his time with you and was just doing it to shut you up. Likewise with this 'what to do in the evenings' problem - he will turn it around and blame you for not being interesting enough and having boring tastes. (I'm sure you are very interesting and your tastes are just fine, but that's what he'll say.) The very fact that you are nervous is a bit worrying in and of itself.

I hope to God I'm wrong and you're not in the situation I was in but he sounds like an abusive control freak and those kinds of people do not change. I asked my husband to leave and he talked to me for hours, listened to everything I had to say, agreed he'd been awful, promised me he was a changed man and then 36 hours later was behaving in his usual controlling way. Then sorry again the next day. Then back to nasty. Finally I said I was leaving if he didn't. Luckily he did.

One thing I can tell you that I hope will help is that all my family and friends, the ones he'd isolated me from, the ones he'd had me not talking to, bad-mouthing even, every single one of them supported me when I split from him. I went to them with apologies and to a person they said I had nothing to be sorry for - they were just glad to have me back. My sister was the one who had been hurt the most and she's been the most supportive and wonderful sister anyone could hope to have. Your family and friends love you, they always have and they always will. Whether you split from him or not get them back in your life. He doesn't have a choice in that. If he says 'me or them' then point to the door. You need them.

[gialyn]

Thanks for your reply Isuelda.

I feel really guilty posting again, since I don't want to keep taking time away from people who really need you guys' help, so hopefully I won't be posting much anymore.. I deeply appreciate all of your help and advise though, you have no idea how much.

Isuelda, thank you for your concern, I appreciate it but nope, he is not abusive. Not physically. He doesn't insult me/call me names, but he does act like a whiny brat throwing a tantrum a lot of times and if he doesn't want to do something, he usually won't do it or whine and whine and whine about it till you're fed up. (He's 30+). But he has never hit/physically abused me. Calling me a nagging wife because I interfere with WoW is his way of trying to get me to shut up. And yes, in all arguments, even when he knows he's wrong, its always my fault, till he calms down and tries to apologize.

1. Update: You were all right. It never stops does it. Last night, he was back on Wow, although he said he disabled chat and only gets status messages now. He also doesn't raid and is only doing...whatever the heck he's doing, looked like he was visiting a bunch of places.. on his own, till his account stops in March. And he reads/replies to their message boards. He said he is only doing this, because he has nothing else to do and I have decided to pursue further studies and was in my room studying/reading up on it. So I guess I can't blame him for doing something harmless because I wasn't even around. But kinda jarred me that it was WoW.

2. RE: Family/Friends, my parents are not around and my sister, I know she will always be there, but she lives in a different state and we don't get to talk everyday and are not too close but I know she will be there if I need her. Friends, the reason I don't have any is because its my own fault, my personality has always been extremely shy & introverted and combined with my husband's controlling ways as I now see it, I didn't do what I should have done and kept in touch with 'em anyway. I'm trying to get back in touch, but lets see how it goes.

3. It's confusing because even though he was back on Wow, he did stop chatting, he did stop raiding and has not gone back on his account stopping in march inspite of an expansion coming out. He has also started telling me often that he loves me and I mean a lot to him and he wants to make this work.

4. He was up at 4am today morning, says he wasn't on WoW and was just browsing since he couldn't sleep, but he's now using a private browse options so I don't know what he was doing, so I'm going to presume it was the truth.

I made a list of things we could do together and he was open to it, but didn't add anything like I thought he would. Doesn't look like he will actually do much of it except perhaps cook together /go for a walk every weekend. Baby steps I guess? Hopefully it will get better, especially with Wow gone in March, he'll be forced to find something else to do. But his argument seems valid that he's only gone back to it minus the part (chatting) that I had a problem with, since I wasn't around in the room. He says he refuses to go to counselling because he is already open to talking about it and our communication is already open and a stranger will not know us better than ourselves and it completely non-negotiable.

So anyway.. I'm really grateful for all of your opinions and advise. I see from some other posters that World of Warcraft is a problem for a lot of people. Combine that with a husband that doesn't think we have much else in common that he likes to do but is willing to try..well... I guess we'll see where it goes.

Until then... have a great weekend everyone and thank you for letting me ramble on here as much as I have

*Hugs*