[CHANDLERS WISH]

I feel really guilty posting again, since I don't want to keep taking time away from people who really need you guys' help, so hopefully I won't be posting much anymore.. I deeply appreciate all of your help and advise though, you have no idea how much.

You better keep posting Don't ever think your posting too much, this is a Forum where we follow people's posts and want to read the next chapter, so keep posting please...

If a person is addicted, like smoking, you have to "cut it down" if you can't quit cold turkey.

The fact that he's open to new ideas, tells you he loves you, doesn't want to lose you, and is slowing down it's a very good start.

But, it can be short term as well, and he can go back to his old ways which is not what you are after, nor do you want, it's causing rifts in the relationship and no quality time togther, no laughter and no fun.

Stick to your plan of getting him and you into "together" things out of the house and for you to start to also have a personal life of your own.

Ulitmately, he has to go day by day and slowly get over this WOW.. Cutting it out all together if he is that addicted, will cause friction as it has, and anger.

Start your plan and keep to it.

[gialyn]

Thank you, you're really sweet. I'm only hesitating to post here because this is becoming a roller coaster ride at my end and I'm sure people here have better things to do than read this E.g. We did start hanging out more this weekend and it was refreshing (although the single player WoW hasn't stopped yet) but its similar to his pattern in the past, he keeps mentioning how nice he is being and how he is spending time with me and making an effort to make things work.. and a week later it was back to his old ways.

The only change this time is that I just found some of his posts to his online friends (old blog, don't have access to his new one) that he forgot to log out of, and presumed I would never read since it is a private forum. He has been talking (forum + chatting) to women as well as men, for years, even though he swore he *never* talks to women online. And although he says I should not have a problem since they all know he is married, right up until 2 months ago he has kept talking negatively about me, and talking about how great it is to not have me around when I was out of the house and being very sarcastic about how I have a problem with him being online so much. When I mentioned this to him, he argues about how its old.. 2 months ago...(not sure what else he has said on his new forums) and is furious that I would bring it up... except I don't think its ok just because it was 2 months ago but don't know if I'm making a big deal of something not worth making a big deal about.

I wish I understood men better and knew when to draw the line with things being ok and moving on and when its ok to feel hurt and want to talk about things. Apparently he has no problem talking to his friends online about anything.. and chatting with them in-game... but talking to me always seems to be a nuisance since I don't speak "gaming-ese". I appreciate that he is making an effort but he has done this in the past and apparently AFTER his attempts to change, has bad mouthed me inspite of it, to his friends.

I don't know if I was in the wrong for bringing this up to him since I just read it?...because it was hard to read some of things he said... which he says was ok because "all men say things about their wives"... he even just hung up on me because I mentioned this even though I was really calm and said I just wanted to make sure he is/will be truthful with me.

I guess I'll find out the extent of the fallout of mentioning this, when he gets home later today. It's kinda painful to watch my marriage heading towards a slow crash and burn. but confusing when he doesn't seem to understand why I hurt and its apparently my fault for raising things such as the above.. wondering if i should have just shut up..

Sigh. I wish I had a man-decoder ring. I should probably be paying you guys to have to read about all of this drama.

And that... is why I probably should not be posting on here so much because there seems to be some new issue every day.

*Hugs*

[stressed]

Please do post whenever you want to!
I so want to write a long reply but I don't have much time at the moment, but do come back every day! Please

I'll only say this now: You weren't wrong to tell him that, it's rude of him to talk like that behind your back and lie, on top of all his behaviour. I don't like that he's using the private browsing option, it's sneaky and nobody uses it without a good reason.

I'll get back to you tomorrow.
Hugs

[gialyn]

Thanks stressed. We're currently on a very shaky truce. I did talk to him about it last night and he still does not see the problem in the things he said since 'its just what guys do', but says he won't speak negatively about me on his forums anymore because I'm making a big deal of it. (he said it to a female on one of his posts I saw, not just 'to the guys').

Long story short, I asked for the password to his other guild forum and said as his wife I have a right to know what he does/says online, if he wants to continue staying with me. A lot of arguments later, extremely reluctantly, he did give it to me after initially saying he doesn't remember the password (he logged in yesterday!).. so I guess that was a big step. He did however delete ALL of his private messages..inbox, sent etc...everything.... before I could see them and was even late for work because he was doing that this morning. I did log in this morning (as I had told him I would) and found a 'shout out' post about not needing her (a female nick)'s help in "getting it up" but he'd still be willing to explore that !. He is the kinda guy who would stick to pvt msgs for this kinda stuff so I was surprised this was on the public window, but its a members only area so again, he never thought I would see it. But when I raise things like this to him, he gets reallly mad about me making a big deal of him just bullsh**ting around. But he had finally given me his password on condition that I do not get to be mad about or argue/talk about absolutely anything I see on here, (including the above) since he says, in future he will not be saying/doing anything that will harm our marriage... and I do not get to raise 'the past' even though this was just a few days ago. So even though I found the above, I can't talk to him about it. So I guess I just have to let it go and not wonder about all of the private messages he deleted.

At the end of our conversation last night, he was very angry for me even bringing anything up because it was 'in the past' even if it was a few weeks/days prior and wow he sure can argue to make you feel like the bad guy for 'beating him down' even though I was very calm and told him all I ask for was the truth. But he has always been that way and I have to always remember to not let him turn the conversations into me being the bad person for raising the topic. And yes, he still completely refuses counselling.

All I ask for, have ever asked for, is that he tell me the truth. I repeated that yesterday that it is better to tell me the truth and have a small discussion about it than me find out that he has been lying and have a big argument, especially when I find what he has been lying about.. took a L O N G time to get through to him about it. He says he will try but if he tells me the truth it will only make me "overreact" since it isn't such a big deal because I apparently don't understand how men need to have a social life online and they are only bullsh**tng and it isn't all that serious to get worked up about.

Bottomline: He has agreed to not chat with women online and to not post anything derogatory about me behind my back (which should not have been such a huge favor to me to begin with in my opinion but thats just me). So I guess its a start. Finally giving me his password was I think, a huge step (he already has all of mine except my family email one and the one for this forum) so I guess he IS making an effort.

I did read on his forums that he plans to continue staying in touch with everyone there even after he stops playing WoW and his forum accesss will continue to remain active as per the admin. Diablo and other games he said he will be on instead - he probably has his friend network there too from when he used to play it..which might be why he said to me that he would be playing an older game. At this point, all I can do is take his word that he won't lie to me again and won't converse inappropriately with women online (even though he insists he never has.. inspite of me finding the above).

So... well... I guess I'll see how it goes. Thank you everyone, so very much, for all of your help and support the past few days.. !!!

Gia

[stressed]

I like that he gave you his password, although, when too many women and flirty lines are involved it's just better if he deletes his account (if it's hotmail for example). But it's definitely a plus that you have the password, it will make him think twice before he posts anything like that again.

Their defense is always "I didn't do anything wrong" or "that was in the PAST" (past to them is anything that happened seconds before the start of the current discussion).

You're only asking for the basics here: respect and honesty. If he disrespects you online and lies to you offline, then of course you can't be happy with it.

I am so glad you took action and made demands. Internet habits are like smoking.

[gialyn]

Thanks I think it was a huge deal that he did finally, although reluctantly, give me his password and I do give him a lot of credit for that. He won't delete the account though and although on this forum, profile or his posts, it does not say anywhere that he is married, he insists 'everyone knows he is married' and he isn't going there now anyway and reminds me I had said I won't talk about this anymore or "overreact" so I stopped.

Last night, I did find on his profile that he has another 'secret' email a/c he never told me about, had subscribed to other forums he never told me about (inspite of me giving him a free pass on everything, if he fully discloses all forums he was on, but he had said the first one was it, at the time).

I found he also had free porn video subscriptions etc, but he had said in the past that he has given up porn and I believe him (they were 'unread' for the past few weeks).

His defense about his risque post has gone from 'I don't know', 'sure doesn't sound like me', to 'it must have been a typing error', 'someone else must have posted with my id', to his current stand 'the admin must have edited it'. He did say (a day later) that he was sorry about it but that he can't see himself typing that and someone else must have edited his post. [I might not know a whole lot about this, but somehow, I just don't buy that. There are no 'edited at' etc details on it and why is only his post and only one of them, edited by someone else. And he lied about the person who replied being the admin and editing it, because I checked the profile and that person is just another member].

He had cheated in the past before marriage, has told his friends he was in love with his coworker 2 years into our marriage before profusely apologizing and saying he is completely over her, and does love female attention... so if he was indeed leading other women on, I shouldn't be surprised I guess, though I hope they realize they are not the only ones he is saying things to. But after the promises of him having changed and me having believed it for years, the more I'm finding out about him, I barely recognize the guy I thought I was married to.

There are also free porn video subscriptions etc that I found last night but he had said in the past that he doesn't watch them anymore and I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt on those.

The more I look the more I find. And this is after he deleted a lot of things. I shudder to think about what else may have/is out there, that I am not aware of.

He seems so sincere when he says he really loves me and truly wants to make this marriage work and everything else is just a distraction... that I'm his soulmate and have always been so and he would never even dream of having a serious online relationship due to his past experiences. But the lies don't seem to stop and he seems to be so different online, especially with sexual innuendos with other women.

I don't really know what to do. One day at a time I guess. :/

[stressed]

This is becoming worse then... Even though it is a fact that the more we search the more we find, we do, eventually, reach a point where we've found everything. But this man seems to be cunning enough that if he enjoys female attention and is not willing to give it up he can easily make even more new email accounts and change the emails he receives to his new one.

My SO used to be like that a lot in the beginning, loved attention, flirty messages online, secret websites, had an email account for all that, didn't talk about me to his online buddies, didn't say anywhere that he was in a relationship, when women asked him in chats if he had a relationship he always changed the subject... really hurtful material. Once he even gave his credit card information to a web-stipper who stripped for him and his excuse for that was "I just wanted to talk and she started taking her clothes off, she lived in a third world country and needed money for her sick parents" (as if I care why a ***** takes her clothes off to strangers for money, especially when that stranger is my guy).

The only thing that made him stop with all this was that I made him choose, either me, or his online flirty life that corresponded nothing to his real self. He was always cute and sweet with me, but as soon as I looked the other way, there he was on the net flirting with anyone who had a female nickname or photo. Called them even and voice chatted with them. I've seen the phone bills. However, he SLOWLY chose me over that life, like I see your man doing now, but he still needed months to totally quit and understand what he was doing.

Trust me, the more you look the even more you will find. God, I even found mine posting advertisements for bisexual men on a local dating website (his excuse was that he was curious). The thing is, your man loves attention, he knows that stating "married" in his profile is going to cut down his "potential flirts" by a half. He gave you the password of one email address, maybe it was the "less weird" one, but at least he made a small step. He seems to know that if he continues he might lose you, but he loves attention so much that he wants to keep some of it. He could be telling the truth about the porn sites too (I've been there too).

It doesn't matter how sincere he seems to be, he might as well be lying out of fear. A way to go is to keep mentioning what you find, in case that makes him realize that if he continues then his life is going to become unpleasant and it will be over something he does. The more space you give him now that he's alert the more danger there is that he'll be comfortable with less, but still some, secrets.

Be alert for the next few months and don't tolerate lies.

[gialyn]

O my.. I'm so sorry to hear what you had to go through with your SO. That is awful and you are such an incredible person for standing by him through it all. I'm really glad he figured out his priorities towards you and appears to have turned around from some of your other posts that I just read. *Big Warm Hug*, nobody deserves to have gone through what you did and I hope he knows how very lucky he is to have you in your life.

You are right. I do find more & more stuff he didn't tell me about and I've decided to just stop looking for now. e.g. the lady he had written the post to that I found, he said he's looking into my eyes and swears he has no idea who she is, she's just another poster on the forum. But her profile lists her website address and his email has a 'you're now a member of this site' confirmation email from 4 months ago, when he joined her website. (general website, she's a member there too, it also has chat etc for members). His name is completely different on one of his email accounts etc.

He also swore yesterday that he did not delete any of his private messages on his forum. Yet, his email has notifications of several private messages having been received in his a/c the past few months (with a link, no details). And a message from a female on another forum introducing herself to him 6 months ago, that isn't in his inbox on the forum.

I haven't slept much at all the past week and have not been able to focus on some important things I needed to take care of and just pretty much don't feel like doing anything anymore. So, I've stopped looking. I know there appears to be a lot more he has not told me about and he has a great excuse for all of them or simply refuses to accept that it exists. And also keeps pointing out that we had decided not to talk about it over and over again and to work on our marriage (but the lying doesn't seem to stop).

So I'm going to stop.. give him a long rope... focus on my life and things I need to take care of in the meantime... and perhaps in a few days/weeks/... when I check his accounts/forums etc if I continue to find what I am finding now, then it will probably be time for a very serious talk and 'I don't know who posted that' kinda responses might not be ok at that time. Re: your comment about him being cunning, yes he is, he's extremely intelligent and knows my weaknesses and the fact that I hate confrontation and would rather forgive him than argue with him, which he uses to his advantage. Well, lets see, hoping for the best but trying to be prepared for the worst.

**Hugs** Thank you again for taking the time to respond... all of you... even though all of you have your plates full too. And 'stressed', best of luck with your situation and I hope things continue to stay positive and work out, for both of you.

Gia

[CHANDLERS WISH]

It's not un-common to turn to the Internet World, it's sometimes a bit of a fantasy, you can talk and talk and talk and be who ever you want to be, say what ever you want to say because no one knows you.

There is an element of danger, and that danger is "addiction" whereby you can't live without the internet world, Forums, Wow, Facebook, My-Space, it goes on and on.

I tend to think there is an element of things missing in someone's life when they do this. He's married, not single. Single, and no where to go, or not wanting to date and therefore, always in the house, okay, I see that, married, well it creates and causes all sorts of problems if it's excessive.

Then off course comes the checking and reading which creates more problems.

Like I said above somewhere as well, if he's addicted and you two don't have a life together, you have to wean him off slowly but surely. At least he's trying in his way by giving you passwords but ultimately your not happy with your life and he's living his via vertial, people he doesn't really know.

You've got to go slow but you've got to get your lives back again as a couple.

[gialyn]

Thank you Chandlers Wish, your advise has always been very wise. I've stopped looking/fishing. I'm trying very hard to get him to be interested in together things, but am not having much luck so far. I'll keep trying. I get a feeling I'm the place-holder till he finds his 'the one' who is as interested in online gaming as he is. But, I have to open to doing my part to make this work, so I'm trying to find things that will interest him.. haven't found anything yet but he agreed to go for a walk tomorrow.. so its a step.

Thank you again for your posts, I appreciate it.