[WildChild]

But in all other instances, there has been no shaking him from my side. It has been pure verbal from my side and physical actions from his side.

Aside from twisting your arm and lightly slapping you once, after you repeatedly kicked and shook him, what physical actions have there been on his side?

[unsuregirl]

Do you really believe that's what I'm "suggesting"? Of course it's not. Sarcasm will never be responded to kindly when someone is taking their time to try to help you and give you advice.

I do not know what more we can do to help you here. You've gotten a plethora of advice and opinion from a variety of people from different age groups, cultures, and sexes. My first advice to someone who feels they are being abused, whether physical or emotional/verbal is to get out.

I guess.... its a harsh truth... and getting out is a permanent solution. I know that suggesting is the most you can do and now I will have to take it from here. Thanks for your time and patience.

[unsuregirl]

Aside from twisting your arm and lightly slapping you once, after you repeatedly kicked and shook him, what physical actions have there been on his side?

In this particular incident, none. Thats how it all ended.

[LanaBear]

I woke up and read this thread a couple of times and it just seems to be going in circles. It seems that you are seeking our approval for your actions towards him and I don't think you are going to get it. You keep blaming his anger issues, but honestly, I think you are in complete denial about YOUR anger issues. You keep saying that you know you made a mistake, but I'm not sure you really understand that. By kicking and pestering him and depriving him of something, you are throwing a childish tantrum. You broke him to the point where he made a mistake, but you also retaliated and slapped him back. You are very quick to blame him and it seems that you want to believe that your behavior did not cause his reaction.

I've got a short temper but you know what, I WALK AWAY until I've had the opportunity to cool down. Instead of picking and poking and prodding him, you should have too. You are right, sexual frustration occurs in women just as it does in men, but sexual frustration DOES NOT EQUAL ANGER. Sexual frustration doesn't give you the right to be a pain in the butt and push buttons until you get what you want.

Neither of you are in the right here, so do yourself a favor, go seek therapy regardless if he goes or not. It will benefit you and maybe you can lead by example.

[unsuregirl]

I woke up and read this thread a couple of times and it just seems to be going in circles. It seems that you are seeking our approval for your actions towards him and I don't think you are going to get it. You keep blaming his anger issues, but honestly, I think you are in complete denial about YOUR anger issues. You keep saying that you know you made a mistake, but I'm not sure you really understand that. By kicking and pestering him and depriving him of something, you are throwing a childish tantrum. You broke him to the point where he made a mistake, but you also retaliated and slapped him back. You are very quick to blame him and it seems that you want to believe that your behavior did not cause his reaction.

I've got a short temper but you know what, I WALK AWAY until I've had the opportunity to cool down. Instead of picking and poking and prodding him, you should have too. You are right, sexual frustration occurs in women just as it does in men, but sexual frustration DOES NOT EQUAL ANGER. Sexual frustration doesn't give you the right to be a pain in the butt and push buttons until you get what you want.

Neither of you are in the right here, so do yourself a favor, go seek therapy regardless if he goes or not. It will benefit you and maybe you can lead by example.

I am sorry but you could not have interpreted my posts more wrong than this. I am here to seek approval for his actions so that I can find the heart to go this man and apologize. If only I could somehow see through someone's logical opinion that all of this was normal and he was not wrong in hitting me, I would be happy.
Also, when I say I know my fault, I MEAN IT. Because, for me this is more than just a thread or a post... Its my marriage which is going wrong and if I was not willing to see things through, I would nto be here. If I just needed approval, I would have talked to my best friend and been happy as my best friend thinks I am not soooo wrong ( I don't agree) .... so you see, I am not here to take blame or blame someone that I do want to live with... I believe there is something deeply wrong to cause all this havoc which can not be sorted with blaming...
I am sorry if I sound a bit rude here but I am beginning to feel that sometimes people just misinterpret your intentions because they like to believe what they think is correct... this is not helpful...
Also, I do appreciate the advice of taking some cool off time before anger calms down and trust me I have tried that but that did not go so well... it seems like if I chose to not argue when I am angry and prefer to sit alone in a corner for a while, he does not take it well...takes it as indifference and makes things by calling up my friends and relatives just to get me to speak...Otherwise, that would be my first choice and I wish he had also chosen to go away for a while when I was so frustrated that he felt I was ruining his sleep.
About the counselling, I have been suggested that already and I am considering that. Thanks.

[LanaBear]

Nobody here is going to tell you that he was not wrong in hitting you. You've got 8 pages of people telling you that hitting a person is not right, whether a man hits a woman or vice versa, in a loving relationship, hitting a person is not right and neither is pestering someone to that point. IMO, the blame is equal. He is no more at fault than you are. You shouldn't have pestered him and he shouldn't have hit you and you shouldn't have hit him back. You both need some serious help. It is your marriage and if neither of you are willing to do more than "consider" counseling based on everything that you have told us, well then maybe you both need to cut your losses and get away from each other. I'd wouldn't be surprised if he isn't already considering that as an option too because he is also suffering from abuse from you, just as you are him.

[unsuregirl]

Nobody here is going to tell you that he was not wrong in hitting you. You've got 8 pages of people telling you that hitting a person is not right, whether a man hits a woman or vice versa, in a loving relationship, hitting a person is not right and neither is pestering someone to that point. IMO, the blame is equal. He is no more at fault than you are. You shouldn't have pestered him and he shouldn't have hit you and you shouldn't have hit him back. You both need some serious help. It is your marriage and if neither of you are willing to do more than "consider" counseling based on everything that you have told us, well then maybe you both need to cut your losses and get away from each other. I'd wouldn't be surprised if he isn't already considering that as an option too because he is also suffering from abuse from you, just as you are him.

Probably correct. Things will become mroe clear in the days to come. I appreciate your opinion and time. And if he does not agree to get into counselling as I have suggested, I will have no choice but to get away. My mind is made up about that.
Thanks again for being honest.

[WildChild]

Regardless of whether he goes into counseling, you should. Even one of you changing their responses and behavior would have made a big difference.

[CHANDLERS WISH]

unsuregirl,

You want an apology..He thinks he was right in what he did....your heck bent on, that is your desire, he was wrong, and needs to apolgise.

You BOTH need to apologise..He will not apologise to you until you apologise for pushing him to the limit, threatening to do so and further pushing him until he did it, you were shocked...Shocked because you lost the control, he did it...he feels that control, maybe now she will not do this again, I will not apologise, maybe now she will get it and stop doing it, yet your solution is if he won't seek councelling your out of there....

Your both wrong...

It's hard to be patient when you are an in-patient person... I can feel your the stronger one, I grew up in a functional family, yet you didn't...I don't like you leaving dirty dishes, clean them up, and then he's the rebel, he wants equality, so he says, I don't like the sheet you put on...this is a viscious cycle.
...
I blamed family because 9 out of 10 times, your childhood reflects how you act as an Adult, yet that's by choice...You can choose to be like your parents or you can choose to take those lessons and ensure you are never like them.

See, you hit your Mother when you were a child. Your mother would yell and scream at you be verbally abusive.

I believe that you have taken on those traits....But in denial over that, after all we don't want to be like our parents... You choose to claim that no, BD is wrong, you mean you discuss in a loud voice....

For instance, I have no patience sometimes myself, because my Mother had none when I grew up...I too could not communicate with her she would shut off...But we now have a bond and relationship just like you do...But, she knows I didn't appreciate it, didn't enjoy my childhood but that I FORGIVE her, because that is who she is but I choose not to be like her because that is not who I am....It took me until 25 years of age to discuss that with her and other matters and FORGIVE...

Maybe that's your first step.

He also came from a family that had issues... You claim more so...But you know? Any issue can affect a child and they can bring their past into their present and their future....You think his problems as a child were worse than yours? I bet they were equally the same. Why?

You have no patience so any little thing he does disturbs you. I suggest you tell him these things over and over, each one he does that "bugs" you including his inability to be what you want in bed...Because a man doesn't go from sex alot to nothing and then when asked for it and says tomorrow, I'm tired, and an arguement emerges, then states " I'm not your sex toy"...

Just as a woman feels used,abused and only there for sex, so can a man feel the same. He has emotions too..I said this before somewhere amongst all of this back and forth...He WANTS to be loved too...not just there for sex and financial support.

This man....supports you financially, he supports your Mother financially as he can, when he can... This man, lost a watch and it was given by your Mother, he felt bad, but you didn't react...He wondered "she doesn't care, is that because it's not important because I'm not important?"... This man gives you freedom, independence, but not enough...He knows that.....Everything he does ends up with no patience, it was wrong, or stop defending, or geez I'm frustrated that didn't last long.... He knows that...He's at his wits end....

Like all marriages...You lose some freedom, independence...Like all marriages, it takes time to get a happy balance living together, all of a sudden your in each others faces, sharing the same house, bed day in day out, not what either is used to...He'll throw his jocks in the corner, leave his shoes in the lounge, expect you to make the bed, not what you are used to....

Im-patience if bad, can mean you can't live with someone...What ever it is you want, you want it now.

My fiance laughs at me, I have to wash that dish now, not drink my coffee, I'm impatient But, because he laughs it's okay..He ensures he helps sometimes and makes the bed, picks his clothes up and there is a happy balance...Because, I don't feel overwhelmed and I know I'm loved and I know he shares...

You need to organise a harmony between you both.

You need to realise that marriage takes work and time to get things into a happy medium and WORK it, everything in life is work...

You need to realise you both have to apologise, you're both at fault and quit the if he doesn't I'm walking because you provocted him....

And, you need to realise you have issues, he has issues and if you both can't do councelling then you need to sit down and discuss as Adults your weaknesses and how it affects the other person calmly and how you can change those things.

Because the next man you meet you will have the same problem.... Unless he is much stronger than you...

And because this man is obviously trying very hard to do the right things, but you nit pick him, in your own admission, about alot of things your not happy with simple things...And he defends himself over simple things, so this stems from how he is being treated and how he then defends..

The slap....accept that you have been pushing him even on your honeymoon because it wasn't a fairytale as you expected so you got mad and so there became an arguement....

BD is correct, verbal and emotional abuse is more damaging than physical... I've been there too.

And verbal and emotional abuse makes a person lose self esteme become nothing, think they are nothing and do not want you to touch them sexually as they feel un-loved and just bossed around....and that therefore, they too are just being used, not loved, so why have sex....

It's time to realise that....

CW

[stressed]

Alright. I am going to try one very last time. You want to reach a conclusion based on reason. And reason it's going to be. Nothing personal, nothing implied or assumed. Pure reason based on the facts you've given us.

Here it goes:

- You have been living with this man for 2 months (distance dating goes to the bin - it just doesn't count as time knowing a person enough to marry him, I'm sorry, but that's the truth. If you want me to explain "why" it doesn't count I can clarify it for you it in another post-). Your problems started on your honeymoon = just when you started spending all your time together. You have known this man for two months and it started off quite badly on day one.

- Two months into living with this man you find yourself extremely sexually frustrated.

About the night you described:

- You wanted sex, but he wanted to sleep. You started shaking him, he didn't respond, and that frustrated you enough to force him (you don't describe what you mean by "forcing him to have intimacy"). "Forcing" him did not make him respond either (which is odd, considering he has a demonic temper problem, based on what you have told us). At that point he "ignored" you, you said.

You stop your description of events there and suddenly you fast forward to him saying "he will hit you if you wouldn't let him sleep". If he "ignored you endlessly", like you said, then why did he tell you this? Being ignored means: he just kept trying to sleep. Being "ignored" does not mean "he threatened me". So, in other words, him "ignoring" you must have made you even more upset and you must have kept on doing something you did mention that annoyed him. Otherwise you contradict yourself or your description of events.

You also jump from "he said he will hit me if I did not let him sleep" to "he twisted my arm". If he was in bed, trying to sleep, and had told you he has to sleep, how did it go to the arm twisting? Were you grabbing him and were all over him? Were you touching him? Because for him to grab your arm you must be within reach. It's not like he ignored you from a distance, and suddenly, without you saying a word, he lashed out of bed to twist your arm.

Again, your description is faulty and it concerns crucial events. The future of your marriage depends on this faulty description. You either attempt to present those events in a manner that would make you seem innocent/less guilty, or you describe the events wrong because you were still upset when you were writing them. In either case, what you described is not possible to happen in the order you described it.

So after the arm twisting you get even more angry (so, we have: frustration + force + being ignored + more force + extra anger on top of this all). You kick him "a few times". Were you already out of bed by then, or did that happen in bed? He told you he was going to go out while still in bed? Did he slap you in bed? When did he exactly get out of bed? Was he trying to avoid your argument by getting out of bed? Did he go to sleep in another room and you followed him?

Once again, you skip important parts in your description. At some point he slapped you and you went to sleep outside. And that's the end of that day. Your description of events is incomplete, either on purpose or due to shock.

He told you he's not a sex slave or a sex toy. For a man to say this means he is under pressure. It means that you made him feel like an object. That he has felt like this before, or has been feeling like this for a long time. Has a man ever made you feel like an object? Have you ever been hit by the man you loved hard enough so that you have blue marks of his fingers on your face? Have you ever felt used? Can you understand the difference between being SLAPPED by a man in rage/a madman and being slapped by a man who has had enough?

I am not saying he was right to do what he did. Under normal circumstances no man/woman is allowed to hit. But you seem to fail to understand HIM. You fail to understand how he feels, why he did what he did. It's not about who was right or wrong, it's not about "making things fair" or "making it even". It's about wanting to understand why your husband reacted like he did. If you understood why you would have gone to him and apologized for your behavior first, asking him to apologize to you as well.

You say:

"I do realize that I should have acted in a more mature manner and the only reason I acted the way I did was out of utter sexual frustration and an extreme sense of loyalty towards him. I told him plenty of times that night that I want nothing more than him right now. And no matter how tired or sleepy he was, I am still not able to justify his slap."

You wanted nothing more than him. You wanted. You. Him. What about him? What about him wanting? To sleep. You put your needs above his. He didn't force his need of sleep on you, you forced your need for sex on him. This is nothing that happens just out of sexual frustration. You showed no respect to him. No matter how much sexually frustrated someone is, when the respect IS THERE you don't do this. Again: I am not saying this to point out "you were wrong, you were wrong, admit it". I am clearly talking about lack of respect in your marriage that doesn't show up overnight because you want sex. Respect is either always there or is never there. In your case, it's not. You don't respect your husband.

Later on you add (something you did not initially state):

"And ya, the same night when he slapped me, I went into the room after half an hour and slapped him"

What you did was abuse him. Again. You abused him several times that night. Did you do it to make a point? Did you do it to "get even"? Do you know why you did it? What stops you from doing it again? Have you slapped or kicked a person before?

You say later on:

"His life was not in danger but his sleep was definitely in danger"

Do you think it's a good time to be sarcastic about this situation you're in? Do you feel proud for putting his sleep in danger? Now, just to be clear, once more, I am NOT trying to argue with you, I have nothing against you and I'm not patronizing you. I only want you to see what you are saying, how you think, what you think of your husband. I want you to see with your own eyes, with reason, what is really going on in your marriage.

"This is what happens when you get too used to someone for years"

No. This is what happens when you marry a man you've known for 2 months.

"I just wish there was some way that I could make him see that he does not need to hit me to feel in control and feel powerful. "

Why do you think he hit you to feel in control and powerful? How did you come up with that? He hit you because you pushed him beyond his limit. This is what I mean, you don't understand your own husband.

"I love him because he normally gives me a lot of indepence in my affairs and has been very supportive of my career and even though he is a lot forgetful, he tries to take care of my needs."

So you mainly love him because of practical reasons. What do you love about his personality? His character? Does he make you feel good? Are you happy being around him? Would you love to spend a week with him alone on a deserted island? Do you want sex because you feel an urge, or do you want sex with him because you love him?

"During honeymoon also, it was an attention issue, I think. Although, I have quite forgotten what exactly had happened but I am sure that I had pestered him to spend time with me while he wanted to sleep or something. "

So this has happened before. It was not the first time. But this time his patience had run out. If he wouldn't have reacted at all this time then you'd take for granted that "to force someone means getting what one wants". And that would be wrong.

"He tells me that she had hyperthyroidism which was the cause of her constantly irritable behaviour at times"

This is medically true.

Now, let's see what you dislike in him:

1) "I am not fed up with the guy but with his traits...with him not making an effort to keep the marraige sexually active"

= You believe he doesn't make the effort to keep the marriage sexually active, even if (contradiction coming)...:

"he wanted it whenever we were together. He still does but I think he is just giving up too soon just because he does not know how to pleaes me"

2) "he is quite nagging in many ways"

although you have already contradicted yourself earlier (about the honeymoon):

"So again my nagging caused the trouble"

3) "I find it very upsetting that people defend themselves over petty matters when they can clearly end things with a sorry which harms nobody"

= he doesn't apologize easily and that bothers you.

4) "I guess the only reasons he said no to counselling was becuase he is not committed to make it work."

= He's not commited

5) "unless he accepts his problem dealing with his rage when things don't happen as is comfortable and convenient to him, there is little that can save our relationship"

This is something that also applies to you.

6) "I know that he let the anger show on purpose to scare me"

= He frightens you on purpose

7) "sometimes ppl take you so much for granted that they begin to treat you any way they wish"

= He takes you for granted

8) "He is intimate and sweet but just not good at the sex part "

= He's bad in bed

9) "He wants the easy way out. Rather than learning it, he wants to give it up or avoids it after an attempt"

= He doesn't make an effort

10) "And sexual frustration is not just it."

11) "he is an animal in rage"

12) "I think his only problem is in the way he expresses his anger"

His "only"?

I want you to look at your own words and think. We won't tell you what to do, you know this better than we do. But you have to understand yourself and your husband first, before you decide anything. Not assume. Learn. Understand. Compromise. Mature. If you want to stay with this man, if you think it's a good choice for you to stay with this man while you have this opinion of him, then do so. But learn to compromise, forgive and communicate.