[Crystalblue]

Effy, I covered some of this at my counseling session yesterday. I've been going to my own appts every week, but that was my last one before I have the baby & get some recovery time.

I've spent quite a bit of time with people in recovery programs, so I know a bit about how it works. I don't feel like there's anything I can do as far as forcing my husband to go to meetings or work through the steps. He has to make that decision on his own.

He doesn't feel like he needs to go back to meetings, so I've just been kind of waiting things out to see what happens. So far he's kept his drinking down, partly because he knows he'll need be able to make an unplanned hospital trip. The only issue he's brought up on his own was his porn use, so I've tried to be supportive there, but I never monitored his use of it before & don't really have a way to. I asked him about going to his own counseling sessions, so he could talk about it more and our marriage counselor mentioned him joining a discussion group to try and work through things that might be a problem for him.

Our insurance doesn't cover couples counseling, so we've had to cancel the last couple of appts. He said he talked with the counselor over the phone yesterday & he's working it out to do his own sessions that'll be covered through work. I'm thinking that'll help more than marriage counseling at this stage anyway.

My counselor described his drinking as possibly fueling a bad cycle for him. He'd drink to have fun & relax, then lose inhibitions that made it easy for him to sext and act inappropriate like he did with his boss, then he'd feel guilty and drink and repeat. She said it would be important for him to find a positive cycle while we're working through trying to make things better, like spending time with the family, having fun, feeling better about himself as a father and husband and repeat.

He's putting in the effort to change things. I think the kids have noticed the difference, too. I don't think it's a situation where we can't work through the problems, but I'm not ready to trust him again either. It makes it hard that coworkers are involved this time because now I have the added worry about how he interacts with them. It can be a lot of work to keep myself focused on me and the kids.

Jen, I've gotten glimpses of my "happy place" since the changes my husband's been making, though I'll admit they've been harder to enjoy since I'm hanging on to so much doubt. Pre-finding the texts, I'd say it was here and there, not nonexistent. We have some problems to work out for sure that I knew were there before.

CW, we remade our budget a week or two ago, and I'm trying to make cuts with groceries where I can, too. Our insurance went down because I took defensive driving awhile back (stupid ticket for unsafe movement), we talked about dropping cable & just keeping internet. After the babies born, I'm going to see if we qualify for food stamps, but other than that, we pretty much have the basics right now. Our phones are expensive, but we got new ones when we set up our plan, so it would be cheaper if those were paid off. I'd love to just win the lottery & have one less thing to worry about. Lol.

[jen1447]

Jen, I've gotten glimpses of my "happy place" since the changes my husband's been making, though I'll admit they've been harder to enjoy since I'm hanging on to so much doubt. Pre-finding the texts, I'd say it was here and there, not nonexistent. We have some problems to work out for sure that I knew were there before.

Can you work out problems with a guy who's not trustworthy? I know it probably seems like I'm hampering the therapy progress by not jumping on the fix-it bandwagon, but the purpose of asking those questions was to establish the fundamentals, which usually makes answering big picture questions easier. It sounds to me like you're inviting a lifetime of misery because you'll never know for sure what's up with this guy or what he's up to. Trustworthiness tends to be one of the main lifetime character traits in people that just is or isn't. I'm doubtful about 'becoming' trustworthy because it means a major change in identity, and people just rarely actually do that. It's why the a-holes of the world pretty much always stay a-holes - they are that way and there's no changing it. Positive attitude means nothing if your chromosomes are telling you "lie, cheat, steal" etc.

I acknowledge that it seems like he's trying, I just don't know that I believe that any meaningful longterm change will occur because you already know who he is at heart, and it's not that guy. I've run with a few guys like this in my time and the absolute best thing I've done with each of them is toss them ultimately. Those seeds of doubt never go away as long as they're around, and they shouldn't, because they're warning you. There are better people out there. No one has to settle.

[Luke]

Fool me twice, shame me once

[Crystalblue]

Thanks for the reply Jen.

So here's the mental torment part of it. I'll try to keep it simple, but I'm pretty sure the confusion and uncertainty I'm feeling will be obvious.

There's the "just me" part of our relationship. I'm an extremely loyal person. I've picked this man to love forever and show everyday that they come first. I expect the same in return and would need that for us to have a happy relationship.

There's the "just him" part that's more confusing because I can't say what's in his heart and mind and what he wants. This has to be shown to me. Change is a part of every person going through life, and while he may not want to lose what he has now, there's a chance that what he wants doesn't fit with our life together anymore.

There's the "us" part. I look at this part as two people going through their changes together with both having the confidence that the other will love them no matter what. That being said, I do think that if both are committed and there's a respect of each other's boundaries, problems with change can be worked through to build a stronger relationship.

There's the "family" part. I've been with my husband for 13 years & we've been married for going on 12. We have a life together and kids to consider, so moving on away from our relationship isn't a decision I'm willing to take lightly or make over night. I know I'm not at the point where I'm ready for that.

Then, when I put it all together trying to dissect where we stand, it gets really jumbled. What I want and need from him matters, and he may not be able to give that to me. He might be the type of person that tries to fix it, then goes right back to hurting me. It could just be a temporary change till we're back on track again.

Then, there's the other possibility that he does everything right, but I can't forgive him and be happy in our relationship. What's heart breaking is that I told him the last time we went through this that I couldn't do this again, but he risked it anyway. Now I'm waiting to see if he can change things, but there's the very real chance that this was it for me. I don't know how much time I would need to tell if I could ever trust him, but it's not something I can just decide to do.

[jen1447]

I think I understand most of what you're saying - thanks for elaborating.

A couple counterpoints from the other side ....trust is partly something you decide to do, something the person in question either earns or not. So imo just blindly trusting somebody never really happens (or when it does, it's a really bad idea). So in practical terms, whether or not you will trust him depends in large part on whether or not he's trustworthy, no matter how you slice it. It's not just an on-off switch, something you decide to do one day. So in that sense it's largely out of your hands. The only thing you can do to help yourself is see reality for what it is, which is of course easier said than done when we have all these other thoughts, concerns and emotions running around inside our heads.

The big 'play' here sounds like it's ultimately hedging your bets. "I hope he can be trusted for the sake of the kids, the marriage, me, and him." The idea of turning all those things upside down 13 years into a marriage is indeed scary I would imagine ....about the only thing scarier I can think of is not turning them upside down if he's going to end up making you miserable for the rest of your life, harming the kids by omission or default, etc.

We have another member here who's written a fair amount about being 'on terms' with her marriage and her husband, primarily for the sake of her children. She's a brave, strong woman but I wouldn't wish that fate on anybody.

[Crystalblue]

I hate that I'm in this situation again, feeling hurt and like my happiness has been disregarded by my best friend and the person I love most, having to question his intentions on so many levels for my own well being. I've had to build a wall against him to prepare for the worst. It makes me feel like he's been gone for a long time and I'm missing this other half of my heart. In a perfect world we wouldn't have that distance from each other.

There's a lot of ways things can turn out, and most of it is out of my hands, so I've put myself in wait and see mode. I don't want to give up especially if he's trying to make things better, but it does make me feel stuck.

For a long time I've felt like I've been clinging to him and trying to pull him back while he's fighting for someone else's attention. He was using all his energy to be noticed but not by me.

Since this has happened, I've let go, and now that he wants to fix things it doesn't feel genuine. It makes me wonder how much better things would feel if we were both there for each other because that's where we wanted to be, not because we were afraid to lose each other.

So... Wait and see mode. I'll have my little girl, take some online classes for awhile, hopefully find a nice career down the line, and see where we're at. For now, that's the plan I've mapped out.

[jen1447]

Good. A woman with a plan is like a force of nature - pretty much unstoppable.

[effy2014]

Crystalblue -- I agree with Jen, you have a good plan and the determination to see it through.

I still believe that his "fighting for someone else's attention" is related more to his addiction than a rejection of you. If he didn't want to be with you and his family, your husband would not be making the changes in his life. I wish the two of you the best and I hope he takes his therapy seriously.

[CHANDLERS WISH]

Your Therapist suspects that the drinking is to try to go to a happy place. The hours of work, change of work, un-happiness in work, day to day trying to get through life, he's on his own. That being, he's trying to go to a place for "him" and he knows that in doing so, it's ruining his marriage and family but he is "lost" at present. Then your therapist suspects that once he's gone over the limit so to speak, he reaches out but not to you and not in a empathetic manner of wanting an ear rather, what he is used to "Porn" has played a part in this in my opinion.. He goes to danger, where he shouldn't be, without going over the top, which then makes him think it's "ok".

The problem with helping someone like this, is........ You have to help them.

The hardest thing in life to do is to forgive and forget. I'm all for telling people over and over, you deserve better. But, if in your heart of hearts you believe those 13 years have not be wasted, he gets lost and into one addiction after another until he almost falls but "tries" to get back again and does love you, then I would have to state, don't forget, but add some forgiveness.

I know that sounds "mad" as in stupid but unless you budge a little with him, he's trying to fight on his own.

That's a mighty hard task to do.

[Crystalblue]

I've got maybe 4 days left of my pregnancy, 3 if we induce, but we'll see. I've got a Dr. appt in a little while. I've been trying to put most of my focus on the baby I'm fixin to meet, but I did some thinking about everyone's replies.

I asked my husband last night about how he was feeling with everything we're going through and how we're doing. He says he's been feeling like things have been getting better. He's still worried and knows there's still a long way to go, but says all he can do is keep trying and not be an idiot.

I told him I didn't want him to feel like it was him vs. me going forward, this is something we're trying to do together.

I know a large part of it has to do with the choices he makes and if he can change, so I don't feel like it would do me any good to try to control that or stress myself out over what he's going to do.

I would like him to feel like he's got my support though. It's not easy because I need a lot from him right now.