[FedUp7777]

I no longer sleep in my own bedroom, I moved out last Monday. What I am having trouble with is his calm almost erie demeanor. That is scaring me more than if he just blew up! He mentioned him moving into the guest room but would have to go buy a bed - he's too big for the daybed in there. I said I loved the room - I have it decorated MY way - the only room I was allowed to do that to when we moved 6 years ago. Plus I want to be left alone and have some peace and quiet. If I stayed in our bedroom he would be there every morning showering and getting dressed, waking me up. This way we never hardly pass in the bedroom anymore. He has not complained one bit. I have been as distant as usual because he's the type that if you give him an inch he will take a mile. If I as much as give him a smile he grabs me and kisses me. I reminded him last weekend that I do not want to be touched - that is the slightest request I can give right now. He said he was not crossing that boundary, but this past Saturday he grabbed me in front of a bunch of friends and kissed me as he passed by. WTF?

Anyway this weekend I pushed more and said I was going out for the night, offered no additional information other than I might stay overnight if I drink too much. He said fine. Once this kind of conversation happens he starts sulking but I leave before I have to face too much of it. The same happened last night when I got in the hot tub without him.

But the disturbing part is he is starting to leave me out of daily information for the family. He took the dog to the vet, I did not even know there is an appt. and the dog had to have 2 teeth pulled. I knew nothing of this until I saw antibiotics on the counter. He then tells me what all went on. And he is going out of town in April and did not tell me. I saw the travel ajenda on the desk. He claims that because I am not all gabby gabby with him, I am leaving him out of my life so he figures I do not want to know about what is going on in his life. This stuff IS part of my life though!

My questions:
Is he really trying to change and I am simply hurting his feelings by not taking notice and encouraging him?

I he dangerous to me at this time? I am still scared around him and I know it is because I know he can flip out at any moment. He says that will not happen because I have brought all these damaging actions to his attention and he can change them now by knowing. Is this really possible? For someone to change that fast?

Am I being unfair and too much on edge and not giving him a chance? A friend said this weekend that maybe I'm too sensitive now and every move makes me jump. Is this the way change happens?

[Fallen1]

Maybe I just have a pessimistic attitude but my opinion is he is trying to "punish" you in some kind of way by not letting you in on the things that are going on with the family. I also think his calm demeanor is a bit disturbing, I don't blame you for being scared.

[kaylar]

I plucked out some of your post which really terrifies me.

'is his calm almost erie demeanor.'


This man is a prime manipulator. He knows exactly what he's
doing and is playing you. He is enjoying his game.


I said I loved the room - I have it decorated MY way -
the only room I was allowed to do

Is this a marriage or did he buy you in a market?
Allowed to decorate a room?
Who is he?
Do you read what you post? Do you internalise that
this man is your "Master", not your husband?
Do you understand you are the text book
Abused Wife?


He has not complained one bit.
I have been as distant as usual
but this past Saturday he grabbed me
in front of a bunch of friends and
kissed me as he passed by. WTF?


This is a Game to him
A Game.
He can do what he wants when he wants
how he wants. He can impress his friends.
You have no rights.


I was going out for the night, offered no additional
information


He KNOWS you expected him question you, so had
already planned what he was going to do. He has
this all planned out. He is enjoying the Game.

he is starting to leave me out of daily information
for the family.

Of course!
It is part of the game.
You don't tell me anything, I don't tell you anything.
He's really amused by you.
He knows you like his hand middle.
Soon he'll make loud noises around you to see you jump.

He then tells me what all went on.
And he is going out of town in April and did not
tell me. I saw the travel ajenda.
This stuff IS part of my life though!

At this stage of the Game he's going to play...
'you go out for a night and don't tell me where,
I go away for a weekend and don't tell you where."

dangerous to me at this time?
I am still scared around him and I
know it is because I know he can flip
out at any moment.

This man will kill you, and enjoy doing it.

Is this really possible? For someone to change that fast?
Am I being unfair and too much on edge
and not giving him a chance?

A chance? For what? He's hasn't changed one bit.
He's still manipulating you.

In fact, he's enjoying the challenge a bit more today
than he did before. He's going to leave you out of
more and more until you beg to be let in.
And then he'll crush you like a bug.

[FedUp7777]

kaylar, thanks for the info. I am just so confused. Can I pick your brain a little?

Once I started mentioning this stuff to him, in late December and telling him I was not happy he has tried to find out what was making me unhappy and acts like he is attempting to fix it. But he keeps asking for commentary regarding the changes. He says he will never get loud and yelling and obnoxious again and he has held his tongue like none other. He just sits - still holds a dominating posture, but keeps a low voice. He will twist everything though so that I do not rememeber even how the conversation started. Our kids do not even know I am sleeping in the downstairs guest room. The 16 yo DD is in the hospital right now and when she gets home this week I will have both of them at my back all the time. She verbally abuses me even now while in the mental hospital.

Do you read what you post? Do you internalise that
this man is your "Master", not your husband?

I guess I have seen him as master for 20 years and it is even hard for me to sometimes remember that I am not his possession.

He can do what he wants when he wants
how he wants. He can impress his friends.
You have no rights.

When I tell him what he did he says it is an old habit he has a hard time of breaking....

He KNOWS you expected him question you, so had
already planned what he was going to do. He has
this all planned out.

This is exactly what it appears to me and why I keep getting headaches. I'm trying to figure out what he's gonna pull next.

I read everything you wrote and I know it all deep in my gut. I just have a hard time proving it when I am at home and everhthing seems so calm. But I called an attorney today and am looking for a place to move to when I serve him with papers. It may take a month and I need support til then. I see my therapist this Saturday TG! He goes to his Thursday and I know he thinks he is going to get support for his feelings instead of help for stop the control and abuse. He says he wants to be a better husband but he also says he needs to prove me wrong.

[kaylar]

Right now he's trying to impress the therapist.
So he's playing the therapist. Saying the 'right'
things.

All of this is a game to him.
You have to leave.

One of the tragedies in this case seems that
the 16 year old has responded to him in the
typical Stockholm Syndrome, or, the earlier
Concentration Camp inmate.

The mind has to make a logic out of a situation.
Hence, when the 16 year old saw his behaviour
towards you it became a kind of...'this is the
right way to act'...'this is how I am to speak'
in the idea if Master is Pleased, then Master
will not inflict injury.

Men like him can be played by deciphering his
codes.

For example, there are men who practice...
'tell me what you want so I can deny it.'
Hence with a man like this, if you want
to eat Italian you say you want to eat
Chinese. You'll eat Italian.

There are some who turn black into white
by the chipping away questions over and over
and on and on so that one questions reality.

A man like this will claim Regan was a Liberal
Democrat so many times and in so many ways you
might actually believe it.

He is no more than a collection of twisted
manipulative words and ideas designed to
bend everyone to his will to see the world
in warp.

[C]

FedUp7777....When someone does this to you, they own your soul. You get so used to being used as a door mat that you believe you are a door mat. Everyone else can say it is this person's fault but you think you must have done something to deserve it. You get used to being punished so it becomes routine. Only when you have finally gotten to where you are now can you understand what has happened....

I know. I lived there...Watch out for that 16 year old child too because they can be quite a manipulator....Don't take any more. The mind can only stand so much....Only when I was able to escape and find myself could I be as free as I am.....Escaping was rough but I made it. You see honey, I know hell...I lived there.....Families are not perfect....Where I live now is perfect.....xox C

Now this is back to Kaylar as it is not my expertise....

[FedUp7777]

He wanted a harley 5 years ago. I didn't want him to get one because he would have yet another reason to leave me home tending to the kids while he enjoyed life. He convinced me I wanted one. I have one and now I can thank him for it because I love it - so much I have a store now - his idea again - and it is the center of my world. When I tell him how he manipulated me he gets angry and says I cannot say that, that he knew what I liked better than I did, that living together this long taught him what I liked and I just didn't know how to figure it out myself. He turned a thank you into another manipulation. He convinced me to drop my IT career and open a retail store for motorcycle leathers. I love it and am happy I did except I do not make any money - I am indebt to him for everyday spending money. The store is not standing on it's own yet. The worst and the one that threw me for the very last loop was he convinced me to get into swinging. He wanted to screw everything he could and told me how I wanted all this. He wanted another man to have me and humiliate me - but that's not the way he put it in the beginning. Now because I participated and feel violated he tells me I was dishonest and untrustworthy and misled him. He has me second guessing my every thought. And yet I go home and he is all sweet, asks about my day, tells me thank you for dinner, and leaves me alone. How can years of distrust on my part turn out to be him saying I am untrust worthy?

[Little]

Whoa, whoa, whoa. A sixteen-year-old mentally ill child?
Now, I'll concede that your average teenaged girl whose parents are fighting is probably going to turn into a regular spoiled brat, even if she wasn't before.
But if she's so mentally ill that she has to be in a hospital, there is something wrong. Is she following her father's example in verbally abusing her? Have you thought about sending her to live with relatives? I know your relationship with your family is not good, but neither is living with an overly controlling parent who is driving her mad.
Obviously you have to concentrate on yourself in this situation and from what you're saying, the "Get the Heck Out" sign is flashing.
Does his family have a history of mental illness? Learn this quickly: mentally ill people are often extremely smart. They can be as conniving as anybody else if they feel threatened. Your husband could be convincing his therapist that you're the devil for all you know. Keep your daughter in that mental hospital until you're absolutely sure that she's okay.
And think about getting your husband interred.

[kaylar]

No one knows you better than you know yourself
unless you no longer exist as a person.
Perhaps
He has so eroded your essence that you no longer
exist.

He can get you to do anything he wants.
He's proven it.
He enjoys manipulation.

Little brought up a factor that I have hinted it.
The problem with the child has come from the
home.

I would not bring the child back into the home.

Mentally ill people are extremely manipulative.
Many seem normal because they play normal.

Imagine pretending to talk with a British accent.
this is how mentally ill people can talk...put
on this 'accent', and those who don't know them
well are fooled.

Only when you see them 'out of character' can you
realise that they are very sick.

The therapist, unable to see through him is
worse than useless.

Most of us who have had to deal with abusive
husbands/battered wives on a frequent basis
can see through them very quickly, and can
have them betray themselves.

That yours doesn't seem to catch it makes
me question the competence.

I remember one absolutely fabulous gentleman
whom, when alone would resort to the most
unending wife bashing I had ever experienced.

I let him go on for an hour, just over and over
picking his wife to shreds, all done in this
terribly urbane manner, with such impeccable
language.

I knew he was an abuser because his wife seemed
afraid of him, but of course together he would
give me this conspiratorial expression as if he
and I were together on some elevated plane
looking down on this pathetic excuse for a woman.

He never fooled me.
I'm sure he'd have your therapist jumping
through hoops.

Caro questioned the therapist before, and I
am questioning now.

[C]

Kay, I have heard and seen things of Therapist's that frighten me to death. Mail order degrees. Video's that are their teachers. Books to read. Very few college degrees and they learn whatever it is they try to learn from poor unsuspecting people that enter their place that they call an office. They will operate out of just about anywhere. Their knowledge is limited.

Now I will shock you to even more. I write a blog site. I enjoy it. Would you believe that I was approarched by a school to try and get me to go for a degree in Sexual Heath. They said I could easily get a Doctorate or whatever they call it with the ability to call myself a Doctor. They said with all the information on my blog site that this would enable me to have my dissertation.

I know nothing about life but what I write. I have no knowledge yet someone was willing to give me a degree to be a Sex Therapist with a Doctor in front of my name to go to their Joe Doakes University....This goes on in all phases of Therapy.....This shook me to the bone....and frightened me...They come from anywhere and put their shingle out....