Stand by your man/woman?

[DreamP346]

I've known a few people who were married to not so nice people. These spouses were sometimes crazy, and would alienate them from their families. But these husbands always stood by their wives and would strain their relationship with their family. As an outsider, I always blamed the husbands for not standing up to their wives and letting these crazy women break up the family. Of course, I don't have to live with these crazy women, so it is easy for me to judge.

What would you do? Would you stand up to your spouse if they were not treating your family with the respect they deserved or would you cut off relationships with you family to keep the peace at home? In both the cases I know of, the marriage eventually ended and there was a lot of turmoil beyond what was happening with the family. As one of the husbands said, "I was trying to keep the peace the best I could. I had to live with her."

[atskitty2]

I can't wait to comment on this...later. I'm off to get in some court time!

[Stillness]

This is difficult for me to answer because I think there's probably more to it. Is the woman open and friendly with the family then once she gets the ring on her finger, all of a sudden she's evil without cause? How much did existing issues from the family's past or the husband's actions contribute to the strain?

[amy40]

These spouses were sometimes crazy, and would alienate them from their families.

Are you talking about extended families?

If you are talking about extended families, people can still spend time with their extended family and the spouse can stay home, if they don't want to go to a get together.
Most people spend way more time with their nuclear family than extended families. So how was it such a problem, Dream, with the two families you knew?

[DreamP346]

This is difficult for me to answer because I think there's probably more to it. Is the woman open and friendly with the family then once she gets the ring on her finger, all of a sudden she's evil without cause? How much did existing issues from the family's past or the husband's actions contribute to the strain?

Friendly sometimes and opposite at others. I didn't know the wives before being married so can't comment how they behaved before. The issues the wives are creating are not existing issues and they are not just with the family. They tend to be with the husband's family AND friends. Basically, they create this toxic environment around them with all. They even have issues with their own family and friends, but I guess they are more willing to tolerate them.

But the discussion I want to have is would you stand by your spouse, even if they are in the wrong because you want to do everything to make the marriage work? Would you cater to your spouse's craziness and demand your other family to cater to the craziness or would you stand up to your spouse and say "no."

[DreamP346]

Are you talking about extended families?

If you are talking about extended families, people can still spend time with their extended family and the spouse can stay home, if they don't want to go to a get together.
Most people spend way more time with their nuclear family than extended families. So how was it such a problem, Dream, with the two families you knew?

The issue is not the family, it is the crazy wife.

I know another couple who had a wife that is very particular. When I spent a vacation together with them, I was required to follow a certain set of rules, like I couldn't come to a certain part of the vacation house because it would disturb his wife who liked to sleep till noon and other such things. Basically, it make me feel very uncomfortable even though this was a vacation we were all sharing. To this guy, making me (and other's who were also vacationing) uncomfortable was more acceptable than getting his wife a tiny bit uncomfortable. All of us felt like we were walking on eggshells around her.

So the question is, how far would you go to keep your spouse happy and calm? Including alienating your family and friends?

[amy40]

Basically, it make me feel very uncomfortable even though this was a vacation we were all sharing.

Sorry, Dream, that your vacation was spoiled. Especially, since everyone's vacation time is valuable and never enough.

[amy40]

Dream.....it's hard to know exactly what you mean by the wives being crazy?

However, when you have guests, it is important for them to feel welcome. It seems you were the guest, so there should have been an effort to make you feel comfortable.

[atskitty2]

Yeah, I guess after your additional comments, I also would like some clarification on what you mean.
I thought I knew what you were driving at, but I'm not so sure.

[DreamP346]

Sorry if I wasn't clear. The discussion is not about these individual situations, but about standing with your spouse, even when they behave rudely, crazy and/or not very nice. Would you stand with your spouse if they were alienating you from your family/friends (your family/friends wan't being bad or anything). Would you rather make them feel uncomfortable instead of upsetting your spouse, even when your spouse is being unreasonable.

So here in an example. This is just an example and I don't really want to analyze this situation, but want to give you a picture. The wife picked a fight with us for no reason. The husband did not try to stop her. He didn't apologize for her behavior. Because of this fight, we stopped contacting them because we felt very uncomfortable around her. A very long and close relationship almost disappeared between us and this husband. Years later, when he was divorced, we all connected again. So it was clear he didn't want to alienate himself from us, but he chose to stand by his wife which resulted in one of his close relationships being severed. We weren't the only group this happened to. So if you were the husband, would you have stood by your spouse or would this have been a huge argument? Would you have tried to maintain relationships that your spouse was jeopardizing? what is more important, keeping your spouse happy, or being able to have relationships beyond your spouse?

[amy40]

The husband did not try to stop her. He didn't apologize for her behavior.

The wife is not his child. The wife would have needed to be the one to apologize, not him.

[DreamP346]

*amy40 I think by giving examples, I am confusing the matter. The example was a single interact from many between this couple and us. Other family members experienced similar interactions. Let's just forget about all the examples completely. Discussing the individual interactions isn't getting to the point I would like to discuss. What I am discussing is when one spouse is very toxic and creates a wedge between the other spouse and his family/friends. This toxic spouse leads to the alienation of the other spouse's family and friends. I go back to my original question, Would you have tried to maintain relationships that your spouse was jeopardizing? what is more important, keeping your spouse happy, or being able to have relationships beyond your spouse?

The wife is not his child. The wife would have needed to be the one to apologize, not him.

If this was me, I would have apologized or at least said something. As a married couple, in many ways we are a single unit. When one says something, it represents the family. If my husband did something rude, crazy or embarrassing, I would apologize because I would want to make it clear that his actions do not represent my feelings.

[amy40]

Dream
after thinking about this.....
i'm thinking you are pretty angry that these women interfered with your friendship with the spouse

[Stillness]

My first thought is that I would not marry someone like this. That's why I was asking what happened before. Why would you pick someone like this and is it all them? Maybe the husbands contributed to or encouraged their behavior in some way.

I would be more tolerant and sympathetic if they had some kind of physiological incident that caused behavioral change. I'm hoping that my friends and family would be too. If they just decided to be selfish and stupid, I'd be less tolerant.

My wife has the right to demand my time and loyalty, but not to the exclusion of everyone else. I'd have to find some kind of balance. I would stand by them to a point. But wrong is wrong. I'll never side with that.

[atskitty2]

Well, it does matter, to an extent, what the fuss is about. I would stand by my man to a point, but I also wouldn't call him out publicly. Or, I hope I wouldn't. As you say, we should be a cohesive unit. Publicly going against him isn't reinforcing that bond, and could be disrespectful. But again, depends on the subject matter.

And also, what do you mean by "stand by" someone? Do you really expect a spouse to leave another because y'all had a disagreement with them, and you believe that you're on the right side?

I am also not sure what you mean by toxic? I don't think that woman who slept til noon on Vaca was necessarily showing toxic behavior. Poor planning, maybe selfishness, but toxic? Is she a night shifter?
I sleep til noon too. I don't get to bed until usually 4-5 am. I'm also very protective of my sleep. Now, I just wouldn't go on Vaca with others unless I explained my unusual habits and prepared to accommodate myself without interfering with other's vaca, but maybe this person just didn't realize how small the house was, or even that other people don't sleep in on Vaca. I vacationed with my nephew last year. He knows my schedule, he's fine with it, all was well. Simple communication and foresight was all it took. This woman's lack thereof, doesn't alone, make her toxic.
I'm assuming that there are other reason why you thought this spouse should have gone against her wishes?

I have a nephew that I have not spoken to in years. He is like a baby brother, I helped my mom raise him while I was still at home. We were close until he married this girl, that I also once got along just fine with. His wife decided that she doesn't like our family so they cut us off. He's 30 yrs old now. I called them once to talk about it. She would barely let him talk to me, and she gave really no legit reason for never coming around. This is a case that I feel the right thing is for him to leave her at home and go visit his parents and grandparents. My parents hardly know their great grandkids because she doesn't like our family. Never mind me, but I think he should care to visit his own parents and his grandparents who raised him. That is the line.
More petty arguments between friends or family, over this or that, yeah I guess I can understand that they would keep peace at home.