[Ahryin]

Yes we all have our opins...I respect everyones however I don't agree with them all..lol

Now THERE is your problem! You are not experiencing anything..not before not after..so now I understand even more....the sex is there but any form of intimacy is lacking. See I thought with your equation that you were receiving it after vs before but wanted to receive it before vs after...makes sense?

Ok so yes you have an issue...if he is not providing any sort of non sexual intimacy and only jumping your bones then I can clearly see where your objection comes into play. You are already taking the step to communicate your desires but is he attempting to nourish them?
Not all men are taught how to nourish..which is what you are asking for. My cousins fiance was taught intimacy through porn....soooooo do I need to explain how this may create issues? She cut pieces of paper into smaller ones and wrote certain acts for instance "30mins Cuddling" "15mins reading" "SEX TIME" "Massage 20mins" ... he added to the hat some things he wanted her to do as well. They took turns pulling from the hat..it was always a surprise what came up but they had to do it. It was their "US" time game. I know it sounds childish but it actually helped a lot. For one she works a lot, he works a lot, so it gave them something to look forward to and spiced up their love life as well. The rules where simple....only do what is on the paper. Eventually he learned to appreciate the little moments and those little moments made her want him more...

[pretzel]

Yes we all have our opins...I respect everyones however I don't agree with them all..lol

Now THERE is your problem! You are not experiencing anything..not before not after..so now I understand even more....the sex is there but any form of intimacy is lacking. See I thought with your equation that you were receiving it after vs before but wanted to receive it before vs after...makes sense?

Ok so yes you have an issue...if he is not providing any sort of non sexual intimacy and only jumping your bones then I can clearly see where your objection comes into play. You are already taking the step to communicate your desires but is he attempting to nourish them?
Not all men are taught how to nourish..which is what you are asking for. My cousins fiance was taught intimacy through porn....soooooo do I need to explain how this may create issues? She cut pieces of paper into smaller ones and wrote certain acts for instance "30mins Cuddling" "15mins reading" "SEX TIME" "Massage 20mins" ... he added to the hat some things he wanted her to do as well. They took turns pulling from the hat..it was always a surprise what came up but they had to do it. It was their "US" time game. I know it sounds childish but it actually helped a lot. For one she works a lot, he works a lot, so it gave them something to look forward to and spiced up their love life as well. The rules where simple....only do what is on the paper. Eventually he learned to appreciate the little moments and those little moments made her want him more...

I've seen similar variations of the card game. It's a good idea when both are willing to participate as it's supposed to be played.

After reading some more I also agree with Ahryin in that there isn't the emotional levels needed.

[StillLearnin]

Definitely the intimacy is missing in your relationship.

Intimacy != sex
Sex is a way to express love
Intimacy is a way to express love
But intimacy and love are not always required to have sex

Each can stand on their own, but having them together greatly increases the satisfaction of the others.

Sometimes though just sex is needed.
Sometimes just love is needed.
Sometimes just intimacy is needed.
Sometimes just one, two, or all three are needed together.

[cuff]

Sure, there can be common ground. I think a lot of men miss out on cuddling, kissing, hugging, and doing things like that waaaay before sex ever happens as being intimate for a woman and maybe that leading to sex later on. Then we can ruin the moment by wanting sex. I've been guilty of that. For me, it's just the overwhelming feeling of wanting sex right at that moment. I don't see it as a negative thing. I understand my girlfriend likes the build up through the day of sex later that night. For me, it can happen right now, or later, it doesn't necessarily make the sex any better. We don't really need any build up. Most of us don't lay around and fantasize for 20 minutes and orgasm, when we masturbate. We go right to the deed. Many women enjoy that drawn out build up.

Cut us some slack! We may try, but it's hard to keep our horniness in check sometimes.

[Ashlee T.]

Well mostly it's because we have such different schedules. He works B shift, I work A shift, his "weekend" is during the week, mine is on the actual weekend. When sex happens, it's routinely right as I'm ready to go to bed. I get up very early and am very busy, so yeah, sleep is sort of important to me. Usually by the time we're done, it's past time I need to be sleeping in order to function the next day. So we finish, he kisses me goodnight and goes home.

I'm not an overly affectionate person. And I'm even less affectionate when every time I exhibit any sort of affection for someone they turn it into sex. It's like hey, I'd love to after a loooong day, lay on the couch in his arms while we watch a funny tv show. But not if every time it's going to result in me being fondled and humped. I'd love to be able to enjoy a nice back rub without knowing he's going to reach around and start fondling me. I'd love to be able to have a long hug with him without him checking down my pants to see what underwear I have on. Sort of makes me feel like an object I suppose....and I'm very sensitive to that (perhaps overly sensitive). I'd like to know that he enjoys some intimacy with me without his primary goal being sex every single time.

Pretzel - shame on you you dirty booger. Only kidding. I appreciate your honesty in recognizing these traits in yourself.

StillLearnin - Nice way to sum it up. I can't fault him for feeling differently than I do regarding what is passion what is intimacy. He thinks it's sex. I don't. Plain and simple. Thats hard to overcome when you view things like that SO differently. I guess for me, I know all of those things in order to full enjoy a sexual relationship. Now, if I was in the relationship strictly FOR sex that would be different, because that's all I would want. But I'm not in that kind of relationship, so I guess I do expect intimacy and passion in the relationship in order to DESIRE a sexual relationship.

[cuff]

I'd love to be able to have a long hug with him without him checking down my pants to see what underwear I have on. Sort of makes me feel like an object I suppose....and I'm very sensitive to that (perhaps overly sensitive). I'd like to know that he enjoys some intimacy with me without his primary goal being sex every single time.

If your boyfriend(and many men) connect the act of sex with intimacy, passion, etc. Then it's not just about "using" you as an object. It's about bringing out those feelings for a guy, that happen to strongly come about, with sex. I can understand where you're coming from with intimacy outside of the act of sex though. Maybe if he wasn't so abrasive as in sticking his hands down your pants? But, try to see his coming on to you quickly not only about getting off, but having those other feelings intermingled too.

[Hopeless Dork]

Guess no matter what we have, we want something else. You have a man who wants you, is willing to talk, wants to feel connected. Beleive it or not, that's a lot. Keep communicating, there must be some place you can meet in the middle.

Very true. While there is many many women that envy your position of having a man that wants sex with you, not his secretary, not with himself to porn... but you.

But we all have to make consessions... there is no one person that can facilitate every one of our needs ALL the time... that would take a robot.

If you had a man that shared your interests, was passionate and intimate, yet did not want to have sex with you... eventually you'd being to feel undesirable despite how much attention they pay to you in other areas of being close and connected.

To find a man that makes you feel like a sexual woman, desired and wanted AND makes you feel connected, can hold you just to hold you... gives you affection without expecting anything in return ... thats what we call a KEEPER lol

I feel pretty lucky in that way. But it was by no means a given. Me and my boyfriend getting to a point in our relationship where we are on the same track sexually, emotionally, intimately... has taken communication, time, patience and understanding -- from both of us.

[Ashlee T.]

But, try to see his coming on to you quickly not only about getting off, but having those other feelings intermingled too

Trying. But it's not easy for me to realize that when those actions seem so predominantly focused on "I want in your pants" like I'm a dog in heat. And then IN the "bedroom" he's quite submissive, rarely ever makes a sound so then I'm left going "where is all this passion you say is involved in sex?........SURE you're not just equating getting off with passion because it FEELS good?" (granted I don't actually SAY that, I'm just saying it on here)

I'm trying to work through times in the past when he's disregarded me, my wants, my well being for his own sexual satisfaction. I'm not mad at him for those times anymore, but I'm still trying to work past the whole "trust" thing that fully allows me to feel sexual towards him. It's hard for me to work through that and try to develop a level of emotional intimacy with him when as I mentioned above, every display of affection = sex to him. Sort of like "stop acting like your primary thoughts regarding ME involve sex and I'll stop believe that".

[Ashlee T.]

To find a man that makes you feel like a sexual woman, desired and wanted AND makes you feel connected, can hold you just to hold you... gives you affection without expecting anything in return ... thats what we call a KEEPER lol

Yes!!!! YES YES YES!!!! Bingo. DING DING DING. (I'm trying to think of other sound affects to indicate I VERY much agree).

Me and my boyfriend getting to a point in our relationship where we are on the same track sexually, emotionally, intimately... has taken communication, time, patience and understanding -- from both of us.

Then there's hope. I struggle with the understanding part of it. I guess because I've always been a very sexual person but I've never equated being touched or showing affection with "sex sex sex sexx!!!". So the understanding his side of it is very difficult for me.

[GlassDaemon]

Well, have you ever considered saying no? I know we like to be direct and talk about it, but maybe you should try a little more subtly, when he's rubbing your back and reaches around to fondle you, direct his hand to rub your stomach or your collar. If he goes to look down your pants pull his hand up and around you waist. Iniciate more kissing and cuddling but keep track of his hands and his eyes, keep lots and lots of eye contact. Then cut him off, not to sound like you're training him like a dog XD but tell him no once in awhile, kiss him goodbye and nudge him out the door. You might need to actually say "no, not now," once in awhile, but I imagine eventually he'll learn to read when you're just looking for affections.

Another suggestion I have is to go places, out to eat, movies, show each other lots of attention while you're out then send him home, mean... maybe a little... but I don't think affections should instantly be tied to sex. I know how you feel. lol Sometimes I'm just looking to be held and loved on a platonic level.