[Ashlee T.]

Yes Minivanman I asked you to read this because I think perhaps you'll be able to relate.... or at least perhaps see a bit of what I imagine is your wifes perspective:

Last night my BF and I were talking about our relationship. Not a fight....just a discussion. Sort of an "I'm going to try to understand you, and you're going to try to understand me" conversation. But a little background for the past few days is that 1. I'm not on the pill anymore, and I'm ovulating so it makes me feel better to steer clear of sex during this time 2. He's been all over me the past few days, kissy kissy, touchy touchy, "you're so sexy" etc. 3. We've had some sexual issues where I felt sexually disregarded by him therefore I lost my desire to sleep with him, and I'm really working on that.

For him, sex = passion and intimacy. For me, passion and intimacy = sex. Make sense? Dictionary says "passion is a strong or extravagant fondness, enthusiasm, or desire for anything: a passion for music." For him, the sexual act itself makes him FEEL passion and intimacy. Therefore, if we don't have sex, he feels no passion and intimacy. For me, passion and intimacy are developed outside the bedroom and carry over into the bedroom. Therefore, if we don't have passion and intimacy outside of sex, I feel none during sex.

If he kisses my neck, he wants sex. If he rubs my back, he's going to want sex. If he tucks me in, he wants sex. If he lays with me on the couch, he wants sex. If he walks up behind me and puts his arms around me, he wants sex. Basically, if I show him physical affection in any way, or accept affection from him in any way, in his mind it's about sex. He acknowledged that. Last night was perfect example. He said "remember how we used to lay together on the couch?" and I said "sure." so I laid down and he laid in front of me facing me. This would have been a nice intimate moment, where he could hold me, we could be affectionate towards each other. But instead, he INSTANTLY went for my neck. So what does this mean to me? He wants sex. And, I was right. That's what sparked the discussion.... because I thought "Gosh wouldn't it be nice to lay here and enjoy each others company without the expectation its going to lead to sex". and wouldn't it be nice to know that he's enjoying this simply because he's passionate about ME, not because he's passionate about having sex with me. So basically, when I know I don't want to have sex, I have to totally 100% shut down any affection towards him.......because to him, affection = sex.

I have a passion for life, for love, for art, for nature. I love to paint. I love to feed the birds and listen to them sing. I love to write and read poetry. I love to learn. I love to laugh and make others laugh. When I make someone smile, it makes my day. I love intellectual or deep conversation. I've always been a very sexual person up until these issues came up with us. I'm full of love and passion. And it hurts me, deep down when someone can only experience passion and intimacy with me through sex. It makes me feel that things are very one level, very surface, lacking depth.

Is there a such thing as a common ground where this is concerned? Is a relationship where sex = passion & intimacy a healthy relationship? For me, the answer is no it's not because to me that's backwards.....but I'm open to being wrong.

Yes, this is long, as most of my posts are. And I'm not apologizing.

[WildChild]

Guess no matter what we have, we want something else. You have a man who wants you, is willing to talk, wants to feel connected. Beleive it or not, that's a lot. Keep communicating, there must be some place you can meet in the middle.

[pretzel]

BD, very well thought out post and more importantly appropriate to alot of us,

In a nutshell

sex=passion & intimacy=sex

Interesting equation.

Need to think through this more before I post again.

[Ahryin]

I agree with Wild, though I understand your frustration. It seems as if you and I share some enjoyments so I can understand how if you are painting and feeling at one with yourself and your surroundings...then he comes up puts his hands around you...then boom he wants sex ... it might alarm you. Now take a step back....think about it. .... he wants you...he looked at you doing whatever it is you are doing and it triggered a response in his mind ... something inside of him created an urge to bond with you sexually. Its not just because you are some woman on the street, it is because you are his woman and his urge to have you was strong enough for him to approach you. Which means he finds you irresistable. Ok....let that word set in .... he is so attracted to you that with every touch and caress he wants you....Now when you look at that ask yourself is that the way things are supposed to be in a relationship? It does not mean something is one leveled...let me ask you what happens after the intimate contact? Does he want to cuddle with you? Does he want to sit and watch you paint? Does he want to have a conversation with you, or watch a movie....is he able to lay in your arms at peace with himself and the world?
My communication with him would be to achieve balance within our sexual selves and our sexual acts....some times going your way with cuddling without sex etc and sometimes going his way...But sweetie the bottom line is you have a man that wants you. Do you know how many women are in relationships that are lacking intimacy? If you need examples search this site! Every day I read about some poor woman who is in love with her mate and her mate doesn't even realize she is alive...as a woman that is.
Also...maybe you should show him your chart...teach him about ovulation etc so he knows that you are not avoiding his advances but being careful.
Count your blessings and work it out, its not a bad thing that he is attracted to you, it is a blessing...its love
Though I do see what you mean and can understand how you feel

[Ashlee T.]

You have a man who wants you, is willing to talk, wants to feel connected.

But I must point that it's not just me that has these things. He has these things in me too. I'm the reason we "discuss", and I'm ever so thankful that he has learned to participate in the discussions.

Guess no matter what we have, we want something else.

True statement in some situations. I have straight hair, so I want curly. But regarding love, passion, intimacy, sex.......shouldn't it all be there and shouldn't the priorities be love, passion, intimacy, THEN sex in order to truly have a healthy happy relationship? I know there are alot of people on here in sexless relationships, but most the time isn't there much more to it than just sex? For instance, you may not be getting sex, but you're probably not getting passion, you're probably not sharing intimate moments either(laying together holding each other and just enjoying the warmth and intimacy with no expectation of sex). And how long does a relationship last that shares no passion and intimacy EXCEPT in the form of sex? Because to the person that sex = passion & intimacy, as long as they're getting that sex, they're happy so they never try to develop the relationship on any deeper level.

Definitely has the wheels turning this morning.

[Ashlee T.]

its not a bad thing that he is attracted to you, it is a blessing...its love

Having someone that is attracted to you is not a bad thing, it's a great thing. But his sex drive, and the fact that he has a girlfriend he is physically attracted to has nothing to do with love IMO. We had sex the first time we kissed, was it love then? No.

Now take a step back....think about it. .... he wants you...he looked at you doing whatever it is you are doing and it triggered a response in his mind ... something inside of him created an urge to bond with you sexually.

Sure, I am flattered by the fact that he's attracted to me. I wouldn't be with him if he weren't. To me it's sort of a requirement in a relationship or I won't be in it. But my point is, if I show him any affection at all to him it means sex. So when he touches me, when he kisses my neck, when he puts his arms around me, I know in my mind "he's doing this because he wants sex". When I hug him and am enjoying a nice embrace (which actually, hugging is quite important to me), and he reaches down, pulls out the back of my pants to see what underwear I'm wearing (which ihe does ALOT)...... is there any doubt in my mind that when I'm trying to share an intimate moment with him and connect on another level other than sex, that his mind is totally somewhere else (sex)? No. There's no doubt. And when I said that to him, he agreed. He says he wants to be close with me, but agreed that most of the time when he does those things it's because he wants sex. And to him, sex = passion & intimacy. To me, it's the other way around.

BD, very well thought out post and more importantly appropriate to alot of us,

Thanks pretzel. I thought it was a discussion that would apply to alot of people here either from my perspective or from my bf's.

[Ahryin]

Sex to me is an act of Love, it was originally designed to be such and to bring about love ....

Where I understand what you mean and what your concerns are...I believe it should be 50/50 but what about the rest of my question....what happens after the act?

[Ashlee T.]

Sex to me is an act of Love, it was originally designed to be such and to bring about love ....

Really? See I look at it differently I guess. To me sex doesn't bring about love....love brings about sex. But you know what they say about opinions, everyones got one.

Sorry I failed to answer your other question. After sex we typically just go on about our business...go back to doing whatever we were doing before.

[caterpillar79]

... After sex we typically just go on about our business...go back to doing whatever we were doing before.

Have you ever cuddled a little bit more after sex and fell asleep with his arms around you? If you did, how did that feel? If you haven't yet, why not try and see how it makes you feel?

[pretzel]

Joining back into the fray (and at my own risk)

I'm going to admit (and take to heart) BD's description of her bf's behavior. I'm guilty of this. Alot of it is of my own doing both because I find my wife extremetly attractive and enjoy not only making love to her but having sex in a playful sort of way. There was a point in time in our relationship where we both had the same feeling.

Somewhere along the way she lost the playfulness aspect of our relationship. BD's description of her feelings mirror my wife's virtually to a T. Trust me, that hasn't gone unnoticed. I want the passion and intimacy just as much as she does. Would I like for that to extend to making love, yes absolutely. In this regard, I'll redo the equation to say "Making Love=Passion & Intimacy".