[stressed]

RIGHT on. It's the passion I want. Anyone can have sex. He can have sex with LOTS of girls. But he can't have passion, love, deep emotion, burning desire, comfortability, bonding etc with LOTS of girls. Same for me. I can have sex with anyone who's willing. But I won't have that BOND with just anyone, that passion. They are two VERY different things to me. And I can't feel that passion when the goal for everything is sex.

I get that. But please understand that I'm not complaining that he wants to have sex with me. I'm saying that if every time I'm affectionate with him or vice versa he intends it to turn into sex, then we really miss out on some special moments of intimacy and in turn, I end up feeling like I'm constantly someones sexual satisfaction. Sometimes being fondled gets old, believe it or not. Sometimes you just want someone to see you for much more than that. And sometimes you just want someone to want YOU for much more than that.

I do understand what you mean and I have had a relationship where I felt like "it would be nice if we did not have sex for once", but I didn't see it like you do at the time, it just became too much physically more than emotionally some times.

Also, I think it's interesting that you said the first time you kissed was the first time you had sex. Maybe your feelings also have to do with how the relationship started? Or your SO's approach towards sex in general? His personality? Maybe you feel he overrates sex?

Another thing, I kind of see what you mean about you both being able to have sex with lots of different people, but is that really true? Do you think that if you're both in love with each other you would find equally satisfying sex with strangers? I don't think so, but this depends on one's approach on sex. Some see it as sex happening only with the person you're in love with, others see it as a bodily function. If your SO sees it like the former then maybe it makes sense?

You must both try to work on intimacy, maybe for a start go to places where he cannot be very physical with you but where you can also do something together that will bring you close. It seems like you feel as if he mostly sees you as a sex object and he only cares about his satisfaction. That can't be a nice feeling. You're supposed to feel loved above all, but he doesn't seem to make you feel that way. You either misunderstand him or he actually does want sex more than anything.

He doesn't have to stop wanting sex with you all the time, but he can start being more intimate with you in other ways, so that you will feel more comfortable about the situation and you will feel he appreciates you more for who you are than for sex. You should tell him everything you've told us here and see what he says.

[cuff]

Trying. But it's not easy for me to realize that when those actions seem so predominantly focused on "I want in your pants" like I'm a dog in heat. And then IN the "bedroom" he's quite submissive, rarely ever makes a sound so then I'm left going "where is all this passion you say is involved in sex?........SURE you're not just equating getting off with passion because it FEELS good?" (granted I don't actually SAY that, I'm just saying it on here)

Well, after reading that, I can't say I was right with my comment about him. I guess I'm relating it to myself. I get horny, want sex, and I do get intimacy and passion from it. Not only the physical act of sex, but the time of teasing, kissing, foreplay, etc. I'm sure a lot of men feel the same. Of course the actual orgasm is going to be the main event and draw for the man, but everything else can still be there.

[JoliAvocat]

Why is wanting sex a bad thing? I think you are disecting this to far. It's okay to cuddle and want it to lead to sex. It's also okay to cuddle and tell him "let's just cuddle." I don't get it.

[stressed]

And then IN the "bedroom" he's quite submissive, rarely ever makes a sound so then I'm left going "where is all this passion you say is involved in sex?........SURE you're not just equating getting off with passion because it FEELS good?" (granted I don't actually SAY that, I'm just saying it on here)

This also tells me that you don't have the kind of sex you would like. That he's selfish in bed and just gets it done because he got an erection. That there's no foreplay, or kissing or him caring about what you want physically, so this also enhances your feeling of him wanting sex just because he wants it and not because he loves you.
I could be wrong, but those lines gave me that impression. Unless he's just too submissive and expects you to do everything he likes, which can also lead you to feel the same way. If you don't enjoy sex with him then you won't look forward to it.

I'm trying to work through times in the past when he's disregarded me, my wants, my well being for his own sexual satisfaction.

If, for example, you feel ill, have fever, and he still wants sex, after you have told him you don't feel well at all, then he could be a sex addict. I don't know, but trying to imagine him based on your descriptions only gives me the impression of someone who could be a sex addict, who can't control himself, who is with you only to have sex with. I just wonder if that's all there is, or if this is what he shows you, or what you perceive. But something doesn't sound quite right here.

[Ashlee T.]

That he's selfish in bed and just gets it done because he got an erection. That there's no foreplay, or kissing or him caring about what you want physically, so this also enhances your feeling of him wanting sex just because he wants it and not because he loves you.

It's not that he's selfish, it's just that he's submissive. He really wants me to feel pleased, but he just wants me to take the lead. I'm always the one trying a new position, I"m the one that says "harder", I'm the one that gives instruction so to speak. He loves when we try new things, but he never initiates them. So I guess my point was that how can you say that sex = passion to you when you act so passionLESS during the act.

Why is wanting sex a bad thing? I think you are disecting this to far. It's okay to cuddle and want it to lead to sex. It's also okay to cuddle and tell him "let's just cuddle." I don't get it.

I think you'd have to read all of this to totally get it. And maybe you did. But me thinks not, because if you had you'd know that I never said wanting sex was a bad thing. It's a little more complex than that.

Soooooooo...... does he have a passion for anything in life?

Hmmm. Well. He likes his job, and his job requires him to work out and stay in shape. But I like my job, and I work hard to stay in shape too...but I don't consider it a "passion". Other than his job and working out, he doesn't really have any hobbies or anything I don't guess. When I'm off work and it's pretty outside, I love to put a blanket in the grass and paint, or read, or write. It invigorates me, makes me feel very happy inside. When he's off, he's just kind of doing whatever. If there's something at my house that he can do like mowing the yard (he seems to enjoy that) he'll do that, or if someone wants to do something with him he NEVER turns down socializing, but he's never really by himself simply doing something he loves. He never spends time alone. Or even volunteer activities, I'm passionate about advocacy and anti-violence. I enjoy participating in events and being active in making a difference. His take on those things is usually "here's some money"...and he might follow along in an event if someone else is planning it, but it's never an active pursuit like "I really want to go to that anti-violence march next month, would you like to come?". So maybe he considers his job his passion (even though it doesn't seem like passion to me at all). And so maybe what he considers passion is very different from what I consider passion....and that's why it's hard for me to BELIEVE him when he says sex = passion to him. Because I think "does he even really know what passion is?".

[Ashlee T.]

This also tells me that you don't have the kind of sex you would like

Yes, you're right on this. I want him to take charge sometimes (I've told him this). I'd like him to pick me up and throw me (gently haha) on the bed and use his manly strengths to ravish me. I'd like him to be gentle sometimes and hard sometimes, to initiate switching positions, to growl or at least moan or make a sound or something and tell me he's cumming. He knows this stuff, I suppose it's just not in him to do those things or be that way. Like he's insecure or something. And I don't want him to think I'm "complaining" or that will just make him more insecure. I remember the girl he was "sleeping w" before he and i started dating telling me she was having trouble getting him to liven up in the bedroom. She said "he just never really...I dunno.......I dunno even how to say it". And now I totally get what she meant. Unless YOU change what he's doing, he'll do one thing, at the same speed and intensity until the deed is done. And it gets old having to tell someone "Faster" "harder" "do this do that" over and over. He WANTS to please me. I know he does. I just think that to some extent he's inexperienced and to a great extent passive in bed just as he often is out of bed. (Though he has been improving SOME on the out of bed passivity)

[KMonte85]

ok, so I've been lurking around on this post, reading everything, but didn't want to respond myself. but now I feel like I kind of need to... perhaps I'll get skewered for what I say, but que sera sera I guess!

BD... I agree with you 110%. I think you are completely justified in how you feel about this situation and why. I share your sentiment that sex and intimacy are NOT mutually exclusive. That sometimes the sweet touches and caresses can be just a way for humans to communicate their fondness, love, desire, and bond without it leading to sex.

I know this feeling you talk about in your post. There were times when I just want to cuddle, or hug, or kiss, or massage and/or receive a massage and not be grabbed or fondled or groped and whisked away to the bedroom for a quick romp. It is/was a big turn OFF for me, because I felt like in a way I was being disrespected, or disregarded as nothing more than a big breathing blowup doll.

Where is the tenderness? Where the the wooing, the romance?

I totally understand and think it is fantastic that your boyfriend thinks so much of you that he can't keep his hands off of you. That is a definite positive... but doesn't it get to the point where you no longer feel like your being treated like a lady? It can make a woman resentful... I've been there and had this conversation with my own boyfriend (who LISTENED btw, and he gets more action now than before when he was being a handsy mansy lol ). I loathed that I would go for a hug or a kiss and the response would be him copping a feel on my breast or sticking his hands down my pants. Wow, there's some romance! Nothing makes a woman feel like you love her character and personality more than grabbing her boob in the middle of a tender kiss (note: sarcasm alert).

BD, I think you need to have another uncomfortable conversation with the boyfriend about something he's not going to like.. Its not to say that you won't have sex anymore, because frankly, when my boyfriend quit objectifying me, he got MORE because his sweetness and tenderness turned me on. But to think that every time you touch him or he touches you it will end up in sex is frustrating.. and is the antithesis of being in the mood... there's no build up, there's no passion. It's just a hand down the pants and LETS DO IT.

Not that it is bad to have that kind of sex too sometimes, but he also needs to learn that you two should caress, touch, kiss without you feeling like its just so he can take you by the haunches and hump you into submission (yes, I *did* quote Dodgeball), but moreso to fuel that fire of your passion and bond. I don't think that's too much to ask for, and I think you will both learn that he will reap the benefits (sexually and otherwise...) if he takes this into consideration.

[Ashlee T.]

BD... I agree with you 110%. I think you are completely justified in how you feel about this situation and why. I share your sentiment that sex and intimacy are NOT mutually exclusive.

So glad I'm not the only one. Sometimes I feel like people just think "you have a guy that thinks your hot so you should consider yourself lucky!". Um, so that means I'm supposed to be at his sexual beck and call 100% of the time? And I'm supposed to be fondled and groped every time I want to be affectionate with him? Uh, I think not.

He came by last night before his meeting. I had fixed a pot of beans and told him he could come eat (I didn't have aerobics yesterday, haha!!). He never touched me. Not a hug, not a kiss, NOTHING. So I guess he was thinking "well I'm just not going to touch her at all then. I'll show her!!". Sort of hurtful that he can't seperate the two things, but I think eventually he'll come around.

Nothing makes a woman feel like you love her character and personality more than grabbing her boob in the middle of a tender kiss (note: sarcasm alert).

Yes!! To me, my character and personality are SO much more valuable than my appearance. Yes, I have boobs. "OMG SHE HAS BOOBS!!!". Yes I have a rear. "OMG SHE HAS A REAR!!!". Yes, they stick out. "OMG THEY STICK OUT!!" That has NOTHING to do with who I am. And I want someone to love me because of WHO I AM, not just because I have various appendages that stick out. And ultimately, like I said in a previous post, I don't feel like he understands what passion really is. Maybe he does. But I don't think he does. And it's really disheartening to me that he equates sex with passion & intimacy.

[kygirl]

BD, I didn't read all the other posts due to time constraints, but I wanted to give you my two cents. I agree with you somewhat. I mean, if I am not feeling connected outside the bedroom, it is hard to focus and want to be physical because that intimacy outside the bedroom creates that desire for me.

BUT...that being said, I don't know how deep all of your issues are with him. I do think it is very frustrating when anyone assumes that affection equates to sex. I have dated people like this before in varying ways...people who were only affectionate when they wanted sex and the people who took affection as me wanting sex. Do you do something differently when you are wanting to have sex rather than just kiss and be held?

Do you think if you weren't having this issues that it would bother you as much as it does?

[Ashlee T.]

Do you think if you weren't having this issues that it would bother you as much as it does?

Yeah, honestly I think it would still bother me as much regardless. I sort of feel like "if everytime you look at me or touch me you see "sex", then are you even paying attention to who I am as a woman?". KMonte hit the nail on the head where that's concerned.

Woman to woman, we know what it's like to BE a woman with "protruding appendages". You can't go to the grocery store without getting stared at, you get "hollered" at, you get "D*****mn!!!!!"'s when you pass someone by, you get "HEY GIRRRRRRRL!"'s, you get "ohh sexy mama!!!!".*HONK HONK* Is it because I'm some super model? Um hardly. It's because I'm a woman, and by many men we are seen as sexual objects. So much so that they often attribute their love for us, their passion for us, with their sexual relationship with us. Maybe some women don't notice these things that men do, but I do, and it makes me feel objectified. So when I deal with those feelings daily, and then go home and even though he's not saying the same things the strangers say, he's making me feel the same way they do by acting like every move I make is a sexual one, every time I touch it's going to lead to sex, every time I want to relax and not wear a bra, every time I hug him, etc etc etc. And I find myself rolling my eyes and thinking "seriously....is that ALL you think about?" And just as KMonte said, it totally makes me reject him WAY more. I don't succomb to it, it just forces me to put my guard up and reject.